Vickie

Honestly, dogs do not think like that. These difficult dogs need a pretty sharp handler. I can't imagine what a horror Erik would be living with an average family. In a way, you're lucky to have such an incredibly difficult dog. It allows you to test & apply all your theories. I don't get that opportunity with my 5. None of them have ever deliberately tried to get me to correct them, although they frequently try to get me to reward them. They are incredibly boring & normal. Anyway...back to the actual topic...

I agree with the others, best to get some help with her from a professional. The above sentence in particular is a worry for me. Honestly, dogs do not think like that. You may be misunderstanding other things as well, so better to be safe than sorry, especially if you feel she may be a threat to you, children or other animals.

I still think looking at other dogs from the lines, doing what you want to do with the dog, is your best indication of suitability and a better test than assessing 8 week old pups.The fact is that people who breed working kelpies look at a dogs temperament differently to what we do for sports. They are only interested in temperament in regards to its effect on work. Some breed and need hard dogs because of the work they do & the way they are treated/trained. Some of these hard dogs would be a challenge/disaster for an average agility home. The ideal temperament for us, is often too soft for a farmer. I see lots of working dogs in agility who are considered too soft by their handlers. Often they are not soft at all, they are backing off, not because they are worried, but because they are sticking their middle finger up. The more they are coaxed & bribed, the less interested they become. Owner: are the parents biddable? Breeder says: yes, both do exactly what I want. Breeder doesn't say: took me 8 months worth of beltings to stop sire biting stock inappropriately. Dam wouldnt come when I call her as a pup, belting didn't work, so she was chained to another dog for 6 months, now she comes every time. Owner: are the good with kids? Breeder says: yes I've never had any issue there. Breeder doesn't say: dogs are chained out the back, my kids have never touched them Owner: do they have fears and do they bounce back? Breeder: no fear, bitch was taken out by a ram last week, badly hurt, but still came back and hit hard. Breeder doesn't say: this bitch has no self preservation & no amount of correction will put her off. Owner: are they food driven? Breeder: yes, they love food. Breeder doesn't say: they run 10k a day, eat every second day & it's mostly scraps.

We all have our preferences! :D Of course. Sorry I think I just misunderstood. I thought you were saying that you coukdnt find many you liked, but after rereading, I think you were saying that none of the ones you like are related. Dont get me wrong, i love kelpies & see plenty that i would love to own and train. I just love BCs more.

I'd love to hear from those who have NOT taken their dog to training (group, private- some kind of organised training) in the last 3 months. I haven't been to formal agility training for a number of years. I train sheep work and take instruction a couple of times a week. What was the reason why you stopped training your dog? I have never stopped training, I just don't take classes, although I try to do a seminar every 12 months or so. I prefer to train at home as I have the room, the equipment and a reasonable amount of knowledge & experience. I can't think of anywhere to train my dogs that will make it easy for me to train with the level of detail and focus I want. Do you feel your dog is well trained enough? Did you not get results from previous training attempts? Is training too far away/ too often/ too expensive? Are you simply too busy? Did you find training boring? I feel my dogs are pretty well trained and am happy with the results we are getting. There is always heaps more to improve on & learn, but I feel I have good access to this information and the motivation to progress. I would not be concerned with distance or expense for the right training opportunities. I have found previous training classes frustrating as the focus is often on whether you can complete a course, not how you complete the course. What would prompt you to start training again or would you not start training again regardless? At some point I will need to take my pups somewhere to expose them to different environments, equipment etc, but they will be trained first. I haven't decided where yet, but it will probably be a club.

well obviously that depends on what the breeder is doing, whether they are outcrossing or not & how good they are at it, but yes, that has been my experience with the last 3 litters I have taken a dog from. And I know all the pups from each one in Australia & am in contact with the owners of ones living overseas. My dogs have been bred without extremes though & bred to complement working traits rather than introduce new ones. yes, maybe if they are trying to produce an allrounder by breeding a yard dog with a paddock dog. Or if they have a dog that is too independent & wanting to breed it to something extremely biddable. But see I would never take a pup from someone trying to do this, because I dont want one who is too independent, so would rule them out as there is potential for genetics I don't want. I am also not confident that those genetics are identifiable with certainty in an 8 week old pup. Too risky for me. The other thing you have to consider is the nature vs nuture thing. Even if there are variations within a litter, are they significant enough that they will exist despite the way each individual is raised & trained? Really? Then what is it that makes you want a kelpie for agility? I would say that to do the above successfully, you would probably need a level of knowledge & experience of working traits, possibly beyond what you currently have. If you're not in a hurry for a pup, my advice would be to make the effort to do some sheepwork with Kaos. It will give you a much better insight into what traits you want and how to assess them. It will also expose you to more kelpie lines & hopefully some will really stand out.

This! Has worked very well for me :) I look at the worst attributes of each parent (and siblings, grandparents if possible). If I can live with their combined worst traits (since that is a genetic possibility) then I'm happy to go ahead. Of course, I hope to have a combination of their best traits too :) As far as picking the lines/breeder...think about your favourite kelpies, the ones you most admire in agility. Are they a one off? Or are there other dogs from the same lines that you also admire. To go to an unknown breeder based on what you see on paper and viewing individual dogs, without an indepth knowledge of the breed is a bit of a lottery IMO. The last 4 dogs I have, I have because the lines I wanted became available, rather than because I was looking for a new dog at that time.

But that jacket would only be worn in one Agreed! We do it because our dogs love it! Mine love to cuddle like that, but they would prefer to be working sheep or running agility.

I would not be taking advice on an Internet forum about this pup. None of these people have seen him. If you are worried, take him to see someone & have him assessed. I had a warning about one of my BC pups from my vet many years ago. He was 4 months at the time & very timid at the vets. He was also timid in other, but not all situations. I spent A LOT of time training and even more time managing him for the rest of his life. He was a very sweet dog & a great companion, but as he matured, he did display some worrying behaviours. I'm glad I got help with him when he was young. I was still managing him till the day he died. I've had 5 BCs since & none have done anything but wiggle & try to lick my vet or any other person.

As companions, my goal is to have well behaved dogs who are happy to just hang out when I am not asking anything of them. First and foremost, they are all my companions and we enjoy each others company. In training, my goal is primarily the enjoyment of my dogs. I want to be fair, consistent and motivating. I want them to want to train with me more than anything else in life. I set specific training goals and work my way through them. I try to recognize and work through any holes in training as I see them. I competition, my goal is to test my training and aim for the same level of enjoyment and success that I achieve in training. I don't care so much about titles or even about places, but I enjoy friendly competition with other competitors whose training I aspire to. I generally have a soecific goal on each course and am happy if I achieve that goal even if I fail somewhere else. I don't breed, but I think I have a young dog here who may just be the whole package in terms of temperament, structure & working ability. Time will tell, but at this point, if she continues the way she is going, I may choose to breed her later (with a lot of help from people I respect).

We go here every year & love it http://www.weeroona.com/index.html

I'd love to give this a go! The effects are awesome. Now I just need to find a day to do it...

thank you :). I hope your cat complies :). And look forward to the shot

Very cute tlc She looks so proud :)

Here is one I took of Shine a couple of days ago. I noticed a beam of light coming through my bedroom window, so sat her in it. I had to do some minor burning in the background, but most of it was already black.

A beautiful image of Puck He looks so happy & content, but also has an air of expectation...like he's ready to go again at any minute.

I'd be keen too. I really want to start using my camera again...it's been way too long...

I'm sorry people were cruel. How sad their lives must be to wish failure on others. I know lots of people who may appear competitive and only about winning, but very few who are actually like that, and even less still who wish bad things for others. They certainly do exist though, I feel sorry for them.

I think you have misunderstood me. This has absolutely nothing to do with sheep stations. In my mind, Increased motivation = increased enjoyment. Pure & Simple. Don't we all want to increase our dog's enjoyment? I was just suggesting that you may need to look beyond the weave poles and that reducing her stress on the whole course will help her weaves...as well as other things. Anyway, good luck

Have you got video of her weaving at home? in a trial? Have you got video of her running a whole course at home? in a trial? Is her enthusiasm for all her agility different at home to what it is in a trial, or just the weaves? If in a trial, she has the same attitude to the rest of the course as she does at home, then it's a weaving issue. If she is all round less enthusiastic in a trial, then it's a general training/motivation issue where the weaves are the most notable component.

What absolutely stunning shots! Hard to pick a favourite, but the shimp in a sponge is entrancing.

I would say get whichever you want and just put the effort in to make it work. I prefer bitches and have 5, including littermates. There doesn't have to be problems.

That's exciting Piper Good luck, hope there will be video

Ticking is part of the Border Collie gene pool. It does not mean it's crossed with a Aust. Cattle Dog. Smooth coats and Pricked ears are also part of the BC genepool. They do not mean it's crossed with a kelpie.

Your Border Collie "herding" mowers, other dogs, children, balls etc means NOTHING in relation to working instinct or ability on livestock.