Steve

Actually its not. If the person were paying the pup off and the pup was security that's entirely different to someone owning something and being made to do with it something the previous owner said they had to. The court only sees it in dollar amounts not emotion. Until my car is paid in full its owned by the finance company but once I make the final payment I get to own it and do what I want.

Actually its not. If the person were paying the pup off and the pup was security that's entirely different to someone owning something and being made to do with it something the previous owner said they had to. The court only sees it in dollar amounts not emotion. Until my car is paid in full its owned by the finance company but once I make the final payment I get to won it and do what I want.

I can think of two desexing cases that have been to court, each time the breeder won. Dogs are property and you cant dictate to someone after you sell them a dog as to what they can and cant do with it any more than you can tell someone if they change the colour of their car that you have sold them they have to give it back. What did they win?

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf http://dogtorj.com/main-course/neutering-misconceptions/the-truth-about-gonadectomy/ http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/spayneuterage.pdf http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1474-9726.2009.00513.x/pdf difficultypassing urinary calculi. - Increased likelihood of vulvar pyoderma (urine scald) - Increased likelihood of urinary incontinence. - Increased likelihood of adverse reaction to vaccinations (27-38%). - Notable decrease of activity/drive. (this is important to those whose animals aren't just pets but are trained to do work too) - Increased chance of "perpetual puppy syndrome" undesirableurination. - Inhibited social adjustment if spayed prior to complete cognitive development (usually a good time AFTER sexual maturity). - Substantial likelihood of appreciable demeanor change after spay - Increased likelihood of cognitive disorders if spayed before sexual maturity. - Increased likelihood of, or speeded progress of, degenerative osteological disorders. - Notable decrease in muscle mass (again, not all dogs are lawn ornaments or carpet speedbumps) - Generally live 2 (or greater) years shorter than unaltered littermates in controlled studies. Altered males: - Increased occurrence of urinary calculi. - Increased difficulty passing urinary calculi. - Increased chance of urinary obstruction. - Increased likelihood of urinary incontinence. - Increased likelihood of adverse reaction to vaccinations (27-38%). - Notable decrease in activity/drive. (same as above in female list) - Increased chance of "perpetual puppy syndrome" undesirableurination. - Inhibited social adjustment if castrated prior to sexual maturity. - Substantial likelihood of appreciable demeanor change after castration (same concept as above in female list... reproductive hormones affect more than just reproduction). - Increased likelihood of cognitive disorders if castrated before complete cognitive development (usually a good time AFTER sexual maturity). - Notable decrease in muscle mass (same as above) - Generally live 2 (or greater) years shorter than unaltered littermates in controlled studies

Double the money if they make them register in our name and then the new owner pays to transfer.

Just think how much revenue they could have if they actually policed the laws and implemented the fines they can now. Its just constantly over regulating and creating more and more scoff laws which are drafted and created by people who have no real clue of the true state of affairs being fed by animal rights crap.No vision of the consequences for breeders or the future for our breeds.

pro K9 has ben nominated for Best Canine Trainer of the Year too.

Yep.

Well if its not its time dog owners marched with placards in the street and yelled and screamed blue bloody murder- problem is it only affects breeders and these days breeders are too frightened to put their head up in case some animal rights loonie comes in and makes their lives hell because they want to breed a litter or two. Having said that you are not supposed to breed dogs from your property anyway now without council approvals and possible Development application. Its a world gone mad.

thank you everyone - we have a place for the cat to stay so all we need now is some supplies to keep him happy and we will send the foster carer out to go shopping for him. Cant say thank you enough. As I said earlier this one really moved me and Im very happy I can tel the owner in the morning she doesn't need to be so worried anymore. Julie

Hope you're O.K. Dog Geek.

I thought membership numbers were on all pedigrees - they are in NSW. But you're probably right why bother with making sure its the right person on the phone asking to have their address changed - not very likely to be anyone else. just seems odd they want an ID to prove where you live you renew but not if you change it. Why bother with an ID in the first place if you can just ring up and say you live somewhere else. Too hard.

The cat has always been inside and never seen a dog - from what you say this would be perfect - the cat is currently in Penrith.

Yes its a problem and by the time we pay transport etc we may as well leave it where it is and pay boarding. Thanks for the offer though Ill remember you next time we get a call in your area. Julie

Just a quick update. We have been unable to locate a foster carer for the cat so we are currently paying boarding fees .We have raised approx $180 in donations so we are hoping that these guys find accommodation very quickly as we will not be able to continue with paying costs for too long. Thank you to everyone who has thrown in for this - it is very much appreciated. Julie

I dont know - it can be caused by so many reasons but I think what you are describing is possibly hormonal or similar rather than some kind of issue regarding a narrow pelvis or too large a whelp etc. Same sort of thing as a dog that needs progesterone treatment where it may be affected by diet and chemicals etc in labour in humans they reckon its caused about 70% of the time by fear of whats happening to them and I have seen many cases where owners try too hard and interfere too much .you wont know if it was just bad luck or if it is going to show in the daughters until you give it a go. In my case it was clear it was happening in one bitch line - so they were taken out of the loop but sometimes its easy to jump in and make decisions without enough information. I dont think you have enough information to know the answer but enough to give it a go.

Steve - I mentioned above the litter details, Piper had primary inertia. I have been feeding a raw natural diet for years and went by the Billinghurst book back then, I believe I ticked all the boxes and still had trouble. Had she been a kennel dog she would have died with the first litter, she gave no real indication that she was in labor except for a really intense stare - then I noticed a small amount of dark fluid on the floor where she had just dripped, had she been outside I would have missed it. I just knew she was in trouble - gut feeling, called the vet and told them I was on my way. They told me to give her time but I said "no" I am coming in. They scanned her and found the pups were stressed and mum was too - she walked around the surgery as if nothing was wrong but I just knew it was time. Ray Ferguson asked me what made me think she was in trouble, all I could say was gut instinct - he told me I made the right call, if I waited much longer all the pups would most likely have died - 1st pup delivered was already dead. They were small to average size pups for the breed. Second time she was laying in the whelping box beside me and gave me the same look - I knew we were in trouble again and then she passed a lot of brown blood. Called the em clinic (A/H)and had her there within 15 mins - however they took their sweet time, 1 hour later before doing the c section. They did an ultra sound and thought all pups were dead which is my guess why they didn't go straight in. They said that 2 pups had been dead for a while and most likely the reason she went early, they were small but still a reasonable size for their gestation. Both times Piper hardly made any mess with digging outside or in the box, her biggest indication was the intense stars at me. One thing I have noticed is she has a small vagina, even in full season she was small, her first litter was a fresh AI and second was a natural mating. Where as my other girls have huge vaginas when in season and they are maidens. When the vets did the first c section they said that there was no physical reason why she could not have delivered naturally, everything looked normal. Where they a bit over weight? How many puppies?

Yeah, I suppose it's a large grey area. Piper had uterine inertia the first time and I was told that while she had a good chance of it happening again - she might go on to deliver naturally next time. I bred her the 2nd time and the same thing happened again but she was 6 days early. She was never bred again and is now spayed. I would like to breed the bitch I kept from the prem litter - I suppose it's a risk that she too may require a c section, if so that will be then end of the dream for me. Just wanting feed back on what others have done and if the inability to deliver naturally was passed on to the next generation. I know several who have had natural deliveries after a c section but haven't heard enough about daughters born from bitches who had uterine inertia. Was it primary or secondary inertia? how large was the litter? What was she fed pre whelping? When you speak about inertia there may be ways you can go about preventing it next time - assuming it caused because of something maternally and not because the pups were too big for her birth canal etc. So tell me how the labour progressed and what got you to deciding it was a C section and we will look at it more closely.

Well I never killed a while boxer and bred 4 of them. They were not deaf, didn't have special needs and made their families very happy and are still living happily ever after. There is no evidence that the odds will be any better with any other dog of that breed. Anyway all I wanted was to ensure DG made her decisions based on both sides and not feel bullied to do so. What ever she decides is good by me. I just wouldn't do it .

Will they? I hope not - surely it has to be done in writing?

Its my experience it usually does run in lines but not all C sections are equal and it does depend on what caused it .

This - Remember while you read it that Australia is one of the few places which can import puppies to Hawaii More puppy farmer demand - its a world gone mad. http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=4570 American Kennel Club News Article Hawaii SB2504 Would Outlaw Sale of Any Unsterilized Dog Date of Article: February 02, 2012 <br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; text-align: left; "><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; text-align: left; "> A bill has been introduced in Hawaii that would prohibit selling or giving away an unsterilized cat or dog. The Senate Commerce and Consumer Protection Committee and Economic Development and Technology Committee (CPN/EDT) have scheduled a public hearing on Senate Bill 2504 on Tuesday, February 7, 2012 at 9:00 a.m. Importation of dogs to the Hawaiian Islands is limited and strictly regulated. If all cats and dogs sold or given away must be sterilized, it calls into question where citizens of Hawaii will obtain future generations of pets. Every Hawaii resident who wishes to have the choice to own a dog or cat in the future should contact the committee members and respectfully state opposition to SB2504. Problematic provisions of this bill include, but are not limited to: The definition of “pet seller” includes any person who sells pets to the public. It would be unlawful for a “pet seller” to sell or give away an unsterilized cat or dog. This would include any person who sells, gives away, or exchanges an unsterilized dog under any circumstances. Responsible breeders could be limited to breeding dogs currently in their possession, leaving them with few options to introduce new bloodlines and create healthy expansion of their gene pools. The definition of “pet seller” excludes humane societies, animal control, rescue and care organizations, thereby exempting such organizations from the provisions of the bill. The American Kennel Club (AKC) strongly supports and actively promotes a wide range of programs to educate the public about responsible purebred breeding practices and the responsibilities of dog ownership. The AKC opposes the concept of breeding permits, breeding bans or mandatory spay/neuter of purebred dogs. Instead, we support reasonable and enforceable laws that protect the welfare and health of purebred dogs and do not restrict the rights of breeders and owners who meet their responsibilities. WHAT YOU CAN DO: All concerned residents of Hawaii should immediately contact members of the CPN/EDT Committees and respectfully ask them to vote no on SB2504. Contact information is listed below. You can indicate your opposition online by clicking here. Type SB2504 in the box under “Enter a measure to retrieve the corresponding hearing notice” and follow the instructions. You may also submit comments (referred to as “testimony”) via the online form. Testimony may be submitted up to 24 hours prior to the scheduled hearing. The hearing notice and information on submitting testimony can be viewed here. Concerned citizens are also encouraged to attend the public hearing to state opposition to SB2504.

It depends. If I have a bitch that has a csection because she is bogged none of her girls will go on main register. If one of the puppies has a problem [ recessive] then none go out with main papers, etc. I usually put puppies which the people have told me they dont want to breed on limited - though that can be a major pain in the neck too. Life was much less complicated when we gave papers from the CC to the people who bought puppies for breeding and none - maybe a hand done pedigree - to those that dont want to breed. Now its all tied up with council exemptions, BSL and the like so all dogs get a rego paper .

And the potential for long term health issues and the potential puppy owners emotions is much higher risk to take in my eyes.... Any zero scored dog could get dogs which suffer . DG knows what she has to look for and is going to test and take responsibility for it. Her male is scored O.K. the other puppies the bitch has had are O.K Crook patellas are virtually impossible to avoid for too long in the breed no matter how careful you are .She doesnt know whether the problem is as bad as she thinks because the bitch was scored when she was pregnant nor does she know if the problem is caused by an injury or other things. She knows within reason the ancestors were O.K. - In my opinion it shouldnt be presented as the only option. Bumping off puppies in the womb in case they may have problems is about the same as killing white boxers in case they are deaf in my opinion.