Steve

Yes, two of them. Yes many of them - not recently but back five years ago .

Until your brother speaks with the breeder he wont know whether the breeder had a disregard or not.Saying they havent seen this in their dogs before is different to saying they dont care - if that's what was said. No matter how good the breeder's credentials or the amount of research you do on the parents HD still happens - it is also impacted by hormones- early desexing increases incidence by a massive amount .

We have a couple of cases we need some help with. First is someone who is in a women's refuge who desperately needs someone in the Melbourne area to foster her dogs until she can find safe dog friendly accommodation 2 Pomeranian 1 male and one female 6 and 9 years old both desexed 2 JRT 1 male one female both desexed one 6 years one 9 years Chipped, vaccinated - good with kids not with cats. They can go into foster homes separately . This person is going back to their home each day at personal risk to feed these dogs and needs to find a solution asap. Second we have been helping out a lot with the floods and we have been able to cover dogs and cats - thank you Eukanuba but we have some horses and poultry that we need to get some feed in for to hold the owners over if ever , when ever the insurance companies get their acts together. Probably better to take donations of cash to cover this rather than have it moving around all over the place. If any one can help it would very much appreciated.

Bloody hell its no wonder its taking him so long then I asked him to do that for me too.

Keep watching if he doesn't hurry up with the photos we may need you to go around and break his knee caps -

There is evidence that animals and people with unpigmented areas are more prone to cancer or burning on those areas. That is because one of the purposes of pigment is to deal with ultraviolet rays. Pigments have multi-purposes some of which are yet to be understood. No evidence, but my personal expereince indicates that extreme white dogs are a little more conatct allergy prone as well. A bit itchy. Extreme white is a really artificial thing to breed for because nature rarely produces extreme white land animals. If the mutation was advantageous in any possible way, we would probably see more extreme white animals because nature is ruthlessly efficient and it is easier for a life-form to produce no pigment than to produce pigment.. Many flashy boxers have limited pigment and I have seen many which have less dark pigment on their face and skin than some whites Ive seen. Ive never found white boxers to be any less healthy in anyway which come from flashy flashy parents, no increase in skin conditions etc than any other boxer. Ive never known the white spotting gene to show as only white without some kind of marking in boxers

I agree but in the case of boxers white boxers should never be born and they could still allow white boxers to be used for breeding as long as they restrict what they can breed with. If they put the restrictions on - no flashy to flashy - no white to flashy then there never would be any white boxers and no - one would need to be concerned. It makes no sense to me to allow flashy to flashy and expect them to make them disappear when all they need to do is restrict that mating and never get them.

But your dog has a huge amount of pigment and was never at any risk for deafness - its a different gene. White boxers dont have anywhere near that amount of colour. Sorry, plenty of Aussies with white ears have some degree of deafness. Technically yes, it is a slightly different gene but it essentially works the same way regarding pigment in the inner ear. Plenty of white boxers, including some posted in this thread, have way more skin pigment than my girl. O.K. I take your word for it I dont know much about Aussies but if a boxer had that much pigment I doubt the breeder would be concerned about deafness. When she was born she had NO pigment on her head at all. But she had colour on her body .

But your dog has a huge amount of pigment and was never at any risk for deafness - its a different gene. White boxers dont have anywhere near that amount of colour. Sorry, plenty of Aussies with white ears have some degree of deafness. Technically yes, it is a slightly different gene but it essentially works the same way regarding pigment in the inner ear. Plenty of white boxers, including some posted in this thread, have way more skin pigment than my girl. O.K. I take your word for it I dont know much about Aussies but if a boxer had that much pigment I doubt the breeder would be concerned about deafness.

I think perhaps you have it a bit wrong greytmate and small claims court wont do any good either .The breeder hasnt fobbed them off .The owner needs to speak with the breeder not base any idea of what has been said via the vet . No breeder can guarantee a dog especially of this breed wont get HD and the dog had no fault at time of sale. HD doesn't only happen if the hip joint is faulty in the first place and many things impact on it including if its a male and its desexed.

Yes, that's why topics like this are important to discuss, even though they can get emotive. Nobody wants to put down puppies they have bred. Looking from another point of view, why would a person choose to buy a pet of higher health risk than its littermates? You would hope that puppy buyers want their dogs to have as long and comfortable lives as possible and would want to buy from breeders that felt that supplying only healthy, quality pups to puppy buyers was an important part of their breeding ethic. i thought I read earlier that registered breeders werent allowed to sell theit white pups. So give them to a rescue organisation. There is always deaf dogs going through the rescue world and all manage to find homes. If they are desexed, chipped, vaccinated and well versed in deaf dog care then i see that as a good thing. Not a bloody chance on earth -

All you have to do is ensure you mate plain to flashy and you wont have the issue to face. simple.

Yes, that's why topics like this are important to discuss, even though they can get emotive. Nobody wants to put down puppies they have bred. Looking from another point of view, why would a person choose to buy a pet of higher health risk than its littermates? You would hope that puppy buyers want their dogs to have as long and comfortable lives as possible and would want to buy from breeders that felt that supplying only healthy, quality pups to puppy buyers was an important part of their breeding ethic. I'm a little confused. Is this comment saying that white boxers have a higher health risk? I thought that had not yet been established. I have asked whether white boxers are more prone to cancer. No-one seems to know. I think it has been established that white boxers are not usually deaf. PD They're definitely more prone to skin cancer, due to being more prone to sunburn. I'm sure I've read some articles about them also being prone to other cancer, but not 100% sure. every white boxer I have seen from a flashy x flashy has lovely black noses and black rims around the eyes they have no more risk of sun cancers than any other white dog.

Yes, that's why topics like this are important to discuss, even though they can get emotive. Nobody wants to put down puppies they have bred. Looking from another point of view, why would a person choose to buy a pet of higher health risk than its littermates? You would hope that puppy buyers want their dogs to have as long and comfortable lives as possible and would want to buy from breeders that felt that supplying only healthy, quality pups to puppy buyers was an important part of their breeding ethic. I'm a little confused. Is this comment saying that white boxers have a higher health risk? I thought that had not yet been established. I have asked whether white boxers are more prone to cancer. No-one seems to know. I think it has been established that white boxers are not usually deaf. PD This is true there is no evidence that white boxers are any less healthy and very few white boxers which come from flashy flahy matings are deaf. Most white boxers which come from white x flashy or white x white are deaf.

Not true.

But your dog has a huge amount of pigment and was never at any risk for deafness - its a different gene. White boxers dont have anywhere near that amount of colour.

But boxers are more prone to bone and other cancers with a higher rate in animals which have been desexed not skin cancers.

If she has perfect hearing it means that she has some pigment (colour) in her inner ears. Without that pigmentation, parts of the inner ear would be unable to function, and she would be deaf. Depending on the breed, the patterns of unpigmented areas can vary. In my breed (greyhound) you do get dogs that appear to be all white. But on close inspection most of the white ones have very faint pigment spots on the ear skin, and so deafness is rare in the breed. Other breeds have different distribution of pigments that result in a different variety of colours and so deafness can be much more common. Yes, I understand the mechanism. But I believe that most white boxers are not deaf and therefore do have some pigmentation. Most white boxers which come from a flashy x flashy mating are not deaf - the problem is that white x white or white x flashy will pretty much guarantee it - so most breeders are trying to eliminate any chance of these matings happening and believe that bumping them off does that - however there are a lot of myths and when the boxer club or CC ban them and clearly want them put down it stops people thinking it through and going after an informed decision rather than simply feeling the regs are in place and thats all they need to know.

No not true, no one cares about a throw back etc - the white spotting gene is what makes a flashy boxer look stunning, gives it the socks and white markings on its face. In some countries only flashy can be shown.

Different white gene .The boxer gene is the white spotting gene and operates differently - too little pigment on the ear drum and you get deaf boxers - there is a big difference between one boxer which is mainly white and another.The whole they get cancer more etc is a bit of a red herring as many flashy boxers also have some lack of black pigment around their noses etc and a white boxer isnt an albino so they usually still have pigment on their noses and around the eye. A white boxer bred to another white boxer means that most of the puppies would suffer in some way so clearly no one wants them to be mated together but a plain boxer mated to a white boxer makes beautiful babies with no whites .Flashy x flashy also means that some of the puppies will be white .So rather than be specific about what can be bred with what dog the assumption via the CC is that some people will be idiots so we ban the breeding of all white boxers. Couple of years ago we could still register white on the limited register but it was found that some were using limited register to breed white x white without understanding or caring that it was making babies which would suffer. Thus the decision to not allow them to be registered at all or ever to be able to make puppies which will suffer. Based on how the codes read you have to register all live puppies but you cant register white boxers would appear to be saying bump them off .Some breeders have a white with markings in their yard which are registered as red or brindle and white - which is true but not really as they only have a small amount of red or brindle and really should be called white. In Australia there is no need for someone to breed white boxers as if they stay away form flashy x flashy or flashy x white it doesn't happen bit harder in some other countries where only flashy and not plain is able to be shown.

Actually, one of the Councils was nominated for an MDBA Award and I thought that was fantastic :). The idea struck me as very forward thinking and something that would be well-worthwhile being made known amongst and throughout the Councils in Victoria .... and everywhere else, for that matter. Wonder if there can be a special Council only category ..... . Hhhmmmm..... I'll have a word with Julie when the dust from this last awards has settled. there was but it was a struggle to find enough nominees. This year a council was nominated Wodonga and two people who are Rangers received an award in different categories. Will speak to the board about introducing it again as a category - we have about 2 weeks to play with before the categories are set .

And of course - the poor judges . What an awesome job you all did .Most categories were so close and even to a point where we had no choice but to give two winners in some categories. I know it took up a large chunk of your lives and I really wanted to say thank you to you all here too. Julie

Its hard to say effectively why Heather was nominated and won this award as much of the detail has to be kept confidential but suffice to say we appreciated her and what she did to help Pacers more than we could ever say. Without out her running in to help us in a most upsetting situation the outcome wouldn't have been as good for a dozen dogs or the owner. To every person who helped us throughout the past year to enable dogs to be kept safe and their owners supported via every small thing and large they have contributed to Pacers - huge - thank you but stick around Im about to ask you for just a little more.

I was disappointed you couldn't be there - next time bring the bitch and the puppy with you. You deserve it alright .The work you do to try to get it right for your breed and your dogs but also the stuff you do for the promotion of purebred dogs and the dog world is huge and it was our honour to be able to say so and let the rest of the world know what we know . Nancy Keck is making a tremendous effort to get it right for the dog world and leave behind something positive for the future of purebred dogs and dogs in general.

Will email you to explain but we had a bit of a hitch so will do it as a raffle for Pacers now we are back. This will enable me to spread the word more about how awesome you and your treats are rather than keep it confined to the room on the night etc We had two things to raffle - Happy Paws Training Treats and the Best Friend 5 day Holiday and didn't sell a single ticket ! Will explain privately.