Steve

Do you mean me personally? I dont remember ever denying rudeness to Jo public and his grubby children at dog shows etc But I do think its not my job the reasons for this are not things I am able to discuss here as it is forbidden. Im not sure I was thinking on the lines of promotion - because there is still the same problem - if they go mad spending resources on promoting the dogs then there still isn't any dogs available - Im also not sure the ANKC will see promoting the dogs as being part of what they should or can do or even if they will rise to the challenge of promoting their breeders but there needs to be some organised strategy to state their case. I think you are right and it will come down to the breeders but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one - the majority still think they are un touchable and special.

Look beating him up or using energy on trying to put crap on the members of the AAPDB will take us no where . We have been playing this game now for a long time and you can say as much as you like about filthy puppy farmers etc dogs doomed to suffer anti pet shop stuff but the fact is these are all operating legally and the whole thing ends up making US look worse than he does already. If the ANKC are just going to carry on as usual and pretend it isnt happening he will do more damage this time as some of those breeders are breeding purebred not just cross breds and some of them arent breeding their puppies in factory conditions/ kennels etc Last time it was about hybrid vigour and how cross breds were healthier - this time its about the show ring and he isnt the only one saying it. Not much time left if they dont get onto it NOW.

Its absolutely appalling that they could speak about and treat the foster carer like this - and when the state government brings in laws to regulate rescue we will all be able to understand why.

Not much more can be said about it . its against the regs and codes and it needs to be reported - if it is reported and nothing is done about it then there is little more that can be done about it - Ive no doubt some bright spark will yell restriction of trade or some such rubbish. Some breeds cant register their whites on the limited register even though for some time we were able to , Ive actually registered a white boxer on limited some 10 years ago but since then its not possible. Im guessing that originally when the main and limited system came in that white GSD would be able to be listed on limited too - but not much point in arguing it because limited register cant be bred anyway. Never has been able to.

By the same logic one should never feed bone and meat in the same meal - bone stays in the stomach until it is sufficiently broken down to move in to the intestine while the meat is broken down more quickly and moves on. The digestive system is a wonderful thing - especially the stomach acids of a healthy dog. Not necessarily- it takes much longer for kibble to digest and assimilate than bones and it requires different enzymes too. I would have though "meat and bones" are a "complete package" since they do come together! Yep.

Breeds with open stud books take any dog depending on their criteria without any idea of ancestry and start them off as F1 - it still ensures purity by the time the breed is recognised or by the time they close the stud books As far as what age a bitch should be bred Im not saying anything more than the science of canine husbandry doesn't support holding bitches off nor does it support across the board decisions which take that out of the breeders hands when all breeds are different , have different requirements etc - and if the only goal of the registry is to maintain accurate stud records they don't need to concern themselves with anything other than those records. Originally the only function of the ANKC was to record accurate records on the stud registry and co ordinate shows - when we can mate, how often , what testing etc is a recent development and not all [most] registries are interested in anything more than keeping the stud records so they can see what dog is in the lineage. You are way off base as far as the MDBA is concerned but I am forbidden to discuss this here so making these accusations seems a little unfair when we can have no right of reply and you couldn't have a clue about what it takes to register a dog on our registry , what mandatory health requirements are needed for each breed to have their puppies registered etc. And we dont register these puppies from this breed so its difficult to see why the MDBA has been bought into the discussion. We have no one who is puppy farming in our membership and no puppy farmer can register dogs on our registry. If you have any evidence to the contrary we are eager to hear it and we will take steps to eliminate them. I am happy to discuss this and answer any questions you have to clarify your false assumptions privately. I said it isn't necessary for a REGISTRY which has as its only goal to keep accurate stud records to make any attempt to regulate their breeders - they may know they are not able to police that due to a lack of resources or they may not care what a breeder does and only care about the integrity of the registry - it may not be as special as the ANKC has but it is common and the biggest canine registry in the world - the AKC does it this way - the AKC also has a foundation registry which enables breeds which are hoping one day to gain recognition to use their arms length registry - its just different and if they don't want to regulate their members about anything other than criteria for their registry it doesn't mean the registry isn't doing what its intended to do or the pedigrees are not bone fide. The breeders I know who are breeding this breed do all health testing and only breed for the betterment of their breed and are passionate about them as much as any breeder and to assume that because their breed isn't recognised by one registry that they are not caring as much for the future of their dogs and their breed is ridiculous. With all breeds you will find some who don't care but assuming these guys aren't having as much of a go at it as any other breeder because they register their dogs on a registry which is not the registry you use,simply isn't true.

By the same logic one should never feed bone and meat in the same meal - bone stays in the stomach until it is sufficiently broken down to move in to the intestine while the meat is broken down more quickly and moves on. The digestive system is a wonderful thing - especially the stomach acids of a healthy dog. Not necessarily- it takes much longer for kibble to digest and assimilate than bones and it requires different enzymes too.

Yep thats where I would go.

I also wouldn't feed hamberger mince unless I added some egg shell powder as this is setting up a mineral in balance -critical at this time of life which carries over into all sorts of potential problems later on.

Not sure why - its just different to what we are used to - its not so different to many other registries. No code of conduct for members and allowing them to breed how ever they want is also common including the AKC. Just because the ANKC do it one way doesnt mean its the only way. Agreed Steve. I was referring to this and hope that's not the case. They are fantastic dogs. Yarracully said: "ETA: the more I search around about this the worse it seems. No requirements to register a kennel name with the breed council. "Just register the name when you have your first litter of pups" (Taken from the American Bulldog National Breed Council forum I just found) No code of ethics, no minimum age for breeding, no restrictions on consecutive litters". But why? What is the problem with registering the kennel name at time of first litter instead of 18 months before hand? Why do they need a code of ethics to register a dog if their only objective is to keep a stud registry and not regulate breeders? Why do they need a minimum age for breeding when the concept of having a minimum age for breeding is against all science of canine husbandry and in most states its covered by state laws anyway? Why do they need to restrict consecutive litters when this is also against all science of canine husbandry and it is also regulated by state laws? By the way this is exactly how the ANKC used to operate - and how the AKC still does operate.

Yep but its also the fact that there seems to be some mind set that only ANKC breeders care or test too. Just because some breeds exist with out ANKC recognition shouldn't threaten ANKC recognised breed breeders.

Also if the ANKC were to open stud books for any breed - and there is lots of pressure on them to do so this is what would happen. The dogs being assessed without pedigree are given a pedigree which places them on as an F1 or similar and then they breed through to F4 or similar and are counted purebred. Many breeds dont want to be recognised by the FCI and due to the fact that there have been deals cut and have been in place for 100 or so years where registries agree to only accept one registry per country any one other than those who are there now couldnt be recognised anyway.This was done to stop one country registering dogs in anyone else's back yard - all FCI recognition means is the registry was first in with the FCI and they only recognise all breeds registries. The good news is a new all breeds registry can accept bloodlines from any registry ,have dual registry acceptances etc and not just those where deals have been cut which gives them access to a bigger and healthier gene pool world wide .

Interesting. They are going to determine lineage for your dog on the day of a show. Obviously a lot of research into your dogs parents is going to occur there. I wonder how many might match the standard but are not actually pure. Yes and I could make my own registry for three legged dogs and can provide pedigree papers. This doesn't automatically mean that two of my new breed will produce three legged pups. As such even though there is a registry and pedigree papers provided doesn't mean they are a pure breed. At least with ANKC or FCI registries there is a governing body to ensure the registry is maintained to a certain standard. As such the pedigree papers issued via these bodies means the dog must be pure as its parents must also be pure and so forth throughout the dogs lineage. If pedigree papers are issued "on the day" providing your dog meets the standard according to one individual, then there really isn't a guarantee about the purity of the dog. This approach only serves to further confuse members of the public as to what actually constitutes a pure breed and pedigree papers, but then isnt that what the breeders of designer dogs have been trying to do - confuse the uninformed so they will believe whatever you want them to believe. So why is this so different to what is happening in the UK where dogs are accepted into the stud registry based on a photo - its time we looked outside the square - just because something is done one way for ANKC recognised breeds doesn't mean its the only way it can be done or should be done . If they still have an open stud book what they are doing is common and perfectly normal outside of the ANKC.

Not sure why - its just different to what we are used to - its not so different to many other registries. No code of conduct for members and allowing them to breed how ever they want is also common including the AKC. Just because the ANKC do it one way doesnt mean its the only way.

They can and are shown in Australia - its just the shows arent affiliated with the ANKC - same as mini foxies and many other breeds which arent recognised by the ANKC run shows most week ends but are not affiliated with the ANKC.

http://www.neutering.org/index.html http://www2.dcn.org/orgs/ddtc/sfiles/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf%20 http://www.caninesports.com/EarlySpayConsiderations.pdf http://www.akcchf.org/research/funded-research/1488.html

I would also be interested int hat site. http://www.neutering.org/index.html http://www2.dcn.org/orgs/ddtc/sfiles/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf%20 http://www.caninesports.com/EarlySpayConsiderations.pdf http://www.akcchf.org/research/funded-research/1488.html

You really shouldn't feed kibble and raw in the same meal especially with puppies. That's because dogs have a short digestive system which is great for being able to eat raw food and not get sick from the bacteria that is in - Raw food moves quickly through their digestive tract so it doesn't have time to brew the bacteria but if you add kibble that stays in the digestive tract longer and keeps the meat in there with it and there is a greater risk of them getting sick. Better to feed a meal of raw food on its own and if you also want to feed kibble do it at a separate time.

If she hasnt included this in her boarding contract she had best get a clause in right now - this covers her and is specific about what the procedure is and people know this as they leave their dog behind. Without that she is wide open to be sued.

So ordinarily Im assuming that puppy training only ever entails the puppy in attendance in group situations and actually working with the puppy and not periods where you educate the owner without the puppy ?

Good heavens - all I want to know is given all things equal what you guys think is the optimal time for basic puppy training in a structured situation. The whole what is a good training instructor , good training school, costs, demographics even what is there now or isn't there now isn't something for the purposes of this poll that I'm interested in. Give me a break don't read so much crap into this - its nothing to do with any association or anything or anyone else wanting to pass judgment about the dog world or not catering to or listening to the public or wanting to make things expensive.

Sometimes I need to answer but cant right then because stuff happens - for example today .My son had an accident last night and Im caught up with unexpected things like hospitals and working out extra transport etc. Sometimes I simply don't see the question especially in an older thread or a long one - there are just so many variables and so many reasons why someone may show as being online and they aren't or they are but cant answer or for a multitude of reasons, like legal issues or protecting someone else's privacy or their own etc don't want to answer. It is just easier if you dont show up and then dont have people being narky .

Opening poster.

When I say qualified I'm thinking someone who is qualified by and accredited by a group to be able to provide training to a puppy - with some kind of base lines and at least minimal qualifications to start the basics at a minimum. I'm not talking about just meet and greet type things where the general aim is to socialise the pup. lets not consider demographics or what families want or ordinarily do or costs etc for the purposes of this poll - I'm interested in what you guys would choose as to what you believe is best for the dogs if all things are equal and ideal.

I used to always log in with my name showing but I often have the forum up when Im not even at home. My computer is on all the time and especially when I was working on the awards usually logged in almost permanently. Then people started getting narky and making little comments about how I was avoiding answering etc . It got pretty bad at one stage and I just don't have the time to go into every forum and every thread to see if someone has asked me a question so it seems smarter to me to log in as anon and then people couldn't expect that I really was here 24 /7 and seeing everything that was read.