Steve

Im sorry thats whay I asjked if I missed anyone. Ill fix it Julie

Steve, suffice to say that yes, you are correct in saying that the RSPCA were simply doing what they have full authority to do under current legislation but it was none other than the RSPCA that was wholly responsible for bringing in such a legislation in the very first place. However, it was Vicdogs who signed off on it and its their dogs, their members and their dog shows.

Thats true but they didnt have Judy's dogs for that long as her legal people went in to help pretty quickly.

Judy tells me she has enough money to pay for the expenses for the RSPCA to keep her dogs .She has not yet received an acccount from the legal team so she has promised to let me know when she get the bill. Could I just point out to you that this is a state law and the RSPCA were simply doing what they have the authority to do under current legislation .Beat up the law - not the RSPCA. There is an election any minute in Victoria and both parties have pledged more money and more laws with greater power to the RSPCA. Might I suggest that if you could download our petitions which asks for greater accountability for an agency which is enforcing state animal welfare laws and move them around dog shows and various places that it wont do any harm ? Petition for Victoria : download here for distribution. To the Legislative Assembly of Victoria The Petition of the Master Dog Breeders and Associates, concerned pet owners, companion animal breeders, animal farmers, animal care industry participants and interested peak bodies and citizens of Victoria draws to the attention of the House The need for greater transparency and accountability by all agencies which are given police and prosecutorial powers under animal welfare legislation. The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals of Victoria (RSPCA) is a private entity subsidised by taxpayer monies in the form of Government grants, bequests and charitable donations which amounts to $16,060,007 or 53% of their 2009 – 2010 income of $30,489,200 (figures taken from the RSPCA 2009-2010 Annual Report) holding much power under legislation which appears to have no independent complaint process. Other agencies which have police and prosecutorial powers have an external appeals process which guarantees they are transparently accountable to the public; able to be scrutinised by external agencies like an Ombudsman, a Special Appeals Tribunal or the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) which investigates complaints of corrupt conduct in accordance with Independent Commission Against Corruption Act 1988 and their officers if necessary. This accountability helps ensure agencies and their staff follow the correct procedures and operate within their legislative or constitutional base. This external process protects the organisation, any people under investigation and members of the public from unfair or vexatious notifications or corrupt activities and brings the RSPCA into line with other organisation’s best practice. The petitioners therefore request that the Legislative Assembly of Victoria Establish an external, independent watchdog to be established to investigate complaints against the Royal Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (RSPCA) And Ensure the RSPCA has a transparent complaint and appeals process for any person or group which is the subject of any RSPCA investigation or action. And Encase any complaint and appeals process into legislation.

All things are possible Erny But what synergy is there between a bank and dogs or the MDBA? In my experience, banks usually seek links with financial literacy. All things are possible Anne

Looks like we will have around 10 all up. There are still some topics I havent introduced yet .

No its not sorted - but there are complications . I will yell as soon as I know. Sorry to make you wait but not much I can do. S

Youth is good - balances out the old chooks.

No it doesnt matter where you live. For now all we want to do is identify what we can do and what we need to do to put that into action. No one will expect you to do anything you're not comfortable with. Steve it is something I am interested in but my real bugbear is responsible dog ownership. Is that something you are going to do a working group on? yep .Choose the one you feel most passionate about. Ill put that one up any minute. Julie

No it doesnt matter where you live. For now all we want to do is identify what we can do and what we need to do to put that into action. No one will expect you to do anything you're not comfortable with.

poochmad little Bear Perry's Mum sas Anne Jaxx's Buddy Goldchow Me Lhok Espinay2 Melzawelza shazzapug Greytmate Have I missed anyone ?

The SA one is on hold for a minute until we check a small detail out - each state has different rules for petitions and its been a minefield trying to sort through them all.

Perhaps it also needs to be pointed out that the RSPCA are not the only charity which is given police powers and in all states the legislation allows for others to be given these powers as well. AWL in some states has the same power.

i dont believe that it is possible to get government to take on this responsibility as it is not in their interests to do so. however, if the rspca has an external appeals process then they will be more accountable and at least people would be able to appeal against any rspca processes which cannot effectively be done at the moment. goodness even the police have an external appeals process and they need a signed warrant before they can enter your premises Why would then government impose accountability on the RSPCA? What's in it for them? Why would the majority of the general public support a petition to make them accountable when they don't perceive a problem? Far easier to gain support for an expanded role of government (not a new role they already do have a certain amount of responsibility already). A petition relies on numbers and you are going to have a hard time convincing the vast majority that the RSPCA isn't gods gift to animals. I just do not see the point of this as it will be viewed as an attack on the RSPCA, a plea for government to take more responsibility however will appeal to most people including RSPCA sympathizers since the poor RSPCA is taxed beyond it's limits and it's a charity after all trying to do the job that should be filled by government. I think some people are allowing their view of the RSPCA to cloud their view of the issue at hand, animal welfare enforcement should be a government responsibility end of story. Try to look at it from the point of view of someone whose only experience and knowledge of the RSPCA is the tv show and their pound puppy, they aren't going to look favorably to some purebred dog breeding association telling them the RSPCA is corrupt and needs to be held accountable, think about it there are far more people who view the RSPCA in a favorable light than not and you want as much support as you can get so the logical choice is to go for the option that is most likely to gain large enough support to enact a meaningful result. ETA the police are part of a government agency, accountability is a matter of course for every government agency, it would be more impressive if you could name a private regulatory body that has an external accountability system, I can't think of any so without a precedent the goal is even more out of reach. Ive no doubt that there are many who feel that animal welfare enforcement should be a government responsibility. Im also sure that sooner or later someone will feel strongly enough about that to mount a petition. We dont see the RSPCA having the power they do as a problem. We do however see that many people feel that there is no way of ensuring that problems perceived or real [which history has shown can occur in other agencies - government or other wise which have police powers ] can be independently assessed unless there is a system in place which allows for an external independent accountability process. I cant see anywhere that a purebred dog breeding association is accusing them of being corrupt - in fact just the opposite. Our petition clearly states that a process as we are asking for protects the agency as well as any other party in the process. Why would anyone be concerned about signing a petition which called for an independent accountability process? If you feel that the issue is that the RSPCA shouldnt be involved in the enforcement of animal welfare enforcement and that this is a realistic attainable goal then as an Australian citizen you have a right to petition for this to happen. Im personally happy for them continue on - get lots of funding - more funding - and enforce the laws as long as there is a process in place to enable a more transparent accountability.

All things are possible Erny

Good Girl

Seriously - Are you going to make us do this on our own?

Gottya

I love some of the things that are coming out in this thread - Cant wait to start getting our teeth into it.

poochmad little Bear Perry's Mum sas Anne Jaxx's Buddy Goldchow Me Lhok Espinay2 Melzawelza shazzapug Have I missed anyone ?

I don't know Ive asked but so far - because I didn't get to it until late - no reply. She may also have been told to gag but I will let you know as soon as I get and answer.

Where does she stand as a breeder, Vicdogs (?) member, showie? No change as there was no conviction - she just has to find the rest of the money now to cover the legals and the bills from the RSPCA for when they looked after her dogs while they held them for examinations and expert witness arrival.

The mistake has been corrected thank you and there is no choice on the praying. :D http://www.ntmajorprojects.nt.gov.au/lant/pub/ip4.shtml Damn WA is worse it has to end in a prayer! :D

bump

even though Judy's case wasn't listed for mention today,it went ahead any way She was advised of this late yesterday and just as well she didnt have a lot of notice as she was a screaming mess by the time she got to court any way They were all there in their glory but Judy's solicitor managed to get it down from 41 charges to 16. Still enough for Judy to just about have heart failure The magistrate was really good and realized that she is not a felon but somebody who did a stupid thing and also went on to say that this would serve to let others know that this cannot not be done any longer She got a no conviction with a 12 months good behaviour bond and she has to pay the rspca costs of "looking after her dogs" She has three months to do this . It seems that it is over!!! 12 months of hell but I hope she can start to get on with her life again now Judy asked to Thank you all for your support . Things like this certainly show you who your friends are Julie