Steve

Yes to a point I agree but you have to start somewhere and I know its not easy but I do think its going to take something [or somethings to be precise] differently. Lots of stuff that's going on not just in this country but others too is based on crap - crap that we as a society have been fed and we have assumed the causes and followed the usual methods of approaching these things. These discussions serve several purposes but one of them is in educating people and pushing us all to open our minds and really ask questions about whether or not what we have been told and think we know is in fact the case or the whole story. the MDBA now has a strategist on board and part of the planning is how best to go about doing exactly as you have suggested but Im not interested any longer in slotting in at the end of the line as a token participant with the others wallowing in their arrogance and hidden agendas. Im not up for working with anyone who doesnt have the best interests of the dogs at heart over and above any other thing they plug.

O.K. But there is one issue here that also needs to be addressed . What if I research the breed, or consider my lifestyle and I muck it up and the dog is horrible to live with. What if I have been an idiot and bought the dog on impulse and I hate it. What if its making my life a misery,i am moving overseas, if I am too poor now to feed it after a life changing event which isnt looking like its getting any better, what if I have to loose the dog to get a roof over my kids heads?

Ive just created a new thread for this - to get started.

No new laws. Are we allowing better enforcement of existing laws eg microchipping. Hard not to be accountable when your name and current address is on the chip. Yep definitely.

Rental with Pet Issues. Is anyone interested in coming in on a small working party to address this on a more grand scale? You wont have to move from your computers if you dont want to and teh MDBA wil do the hard stuff but Im just too busy right now to get it done quickly and Im in a hurry ? Before you put your hand up Im going to be calling for lots of these sub groups to be formed to get through it all so if there is another subject you would like to save yourself for think about that. Im looking ofr people who are passionate that this is a major issue and that it needs to have action and movement in this area.

No new laws.

Yes its coming up.

O.K. Not good enough - we will start here. Name of the shire and I will start on them.

This is a huge part of it - in fact its a major part of what we have had to do with Pacers. Peopel who need us to foster their dogs until they can find pet friendly accommodation. I had one this morning who had a renatl all ready to move into and at the last minute the owner said no to her cat - because she had alreeady been approved she gave notice and new tenants are moving in - now she is homeless and needs to find somewhere to move with or without the cat if she is to live anywhere! No wonder tenants tell lies.

They cant promote your business over any other which is providing the same or similar but they can refer them to trainers and give them a list of trainers in the area and their contact numbers. So given there are to be given all options and allowed to choose - how do we get them the info and promote you guys to be a necessary service rather than a luxury?

we would support it and Im aware of many pet shops which would go with it too - we can always fix that if we decide its a good approach anyway

Wagga has a dog training club - did they not remember that? It would probably be amazing what could be accomplished with some dedicated ground in regional towns and a government grant. Agree on the need for information gathering - raised it in Part 1 of these threads. I have another question to ask surrendering owners - what would have to change for you to keep this dog? Yes Wagga has a dog training club but cant handle the sort of things needed. Since we have been doing Pacers we have prevented approx 400 dogs from being dumped and even though Im the first to admit that we need to know who is breeding them and where they are coming from that may be a bit of a smoke screen set up due to constant bleeps about pet shops and puppy farms - at the end of the day if someone wants to dump their dogs they are going to do it. Also in any stats you would expect that the numbers will be higher for the group that breeds or places the most even if they are doing everything right - so in the end where will it take us?

I will fight you on compliance and licencing but... What about mobile desexing, subsidised desexing and subsidised dog training ? The whole training thing probably is going to need another thread of its own but there are some things that need to be discussed here too. In Wagga Wagga for example about 2 years ago I attended a meeting with Wagga City Council regarding their animal management plans and they told me there was only two trainers in this area - I tried to prove them wrong but couldnt. Wagga has a population of around $55000 people ! The two trainers operate in a way which would not enable the council rangers who had people they may be able to help with training To better manage their dogs to recommend them to. So if we developed a plan to push people more toward trainers - do we have enough trainers to cover that?

Same again.- No new laws. What strategies could we put in place which may have a bit of an impact on dog dumpage and euthanasia rates in this country. Think outside the square because what has already been done is pretty much a bomb. Julie

So you think it is worth the risk to place a rescued dog into an unknown situation...just in case a home check offends a prospective buyer? A dog that has already lost one home through whatever circumstances? I think any rescuer, or breeder has a right to know that a dog or puppy they sell is going to a safe, secure home with adequate yard space for the breed. Having rehomed a Kelpie X, there is no way I would had let someone have her who worked full time and lived in an apartment or only had a small courtyard. I knew the dog and knew what was the best type of home for her....and don't necessarily believe what people may tell me over the phone. It was easy...unless I did a home check, they didn't get the dog, and could go elsewhere. That's O.K. its your choice but its also my choice not to consider taking a dog which is reliant on me passing some test with fuzzy criteria and being inspected and the fact is that most Australians who want to buy a pup feel the same way - right or wrong - risky or not - thats how it is. Ive known lots of people who had wonderful fences and yards and nice tidy clean homes with no wandering jew and their kids out of Pjs at 8 am who still dump their dog.

Hi Jed, what I meant was has there never been an A dog that has had all normal pups? For example has every stud dog you know produced an affected puppy? Just becasue they say that A to A litters still produce 25% affected pups, that may not mean every single last A dog on earth has produced an affected pup, at least I am hopeing it does not mean that. For example, take HD. We can find that breed x has a 10% affected rate even in breeding programs where only normal scored parents are used. So we could say that Normal 'A' parents produce 10% affected pups. That does not mean that every normal dog has produced 10% affected pups. There will be dogs that never produced any affected pups and there will be other dogs that produced 30% affected pups, but the average for the breed is 10% affected from normal parents. Sorry if I am not being clear. Very true - the way they have presented the numbers it could mean that 3 out of 4 A to A have no affected and one does rather than one pup out of 4 in any one litter has one in 4. This is a very important piece of information and could make a whole world of difference.We also need to know what comes next - the stats need to be broken down litter by litter and given for at least 3 generations.

Nic Lots of questions and issues in this I want to talk about but in a minute I will put up a new topic to chat about this one as I think its a separate subject which deserves lots of space of its own.

Thank You Julie

When I have spoken with them I bring it here - So if they dont call you to let you know you will see it in this thread.

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showforum=68 Pacers has been busy and the demand for what we do has steadily increased. Our team of Foster Carers has grown and the support has been great but we do need to bring in some more funds to help a couple of people we have right now who could use a hand and hopefully have a bit in hand for us to cover the Christmas period which looks like it may be extra busy for us especially as we currently have about 25 dogs , 6 cats and a horse in foster care. We also help to feed over 100 dogs each week too. One of the people we would like to help is a dogz member Iggy Mum who is currently in hospital, seriously ill and needing some assistance for her cats. She has been generous to us in the past and has made donations and contributions to several of our calls for help and now she needs a hand herself. So to that end we are going to have a go at running some auctions and maybe a raffle or two to give you guys a hand with Christmas shopping and hopefully raise some funds for Pacers. I want to be very clear about the fact. That any money raised goes into the pacers kitty and will be used to help everyone we can afford to if they qualify not just now but into the future.

We have a call for help from someone who is in the Toowoomba area who is desperate for foster care for her two little dogs. One Cavie is 5 years old and the other is a cross poodle x malt. O.K. with other animals but havent been around kids much .neither are desexed but are on contraception. This has to be in place by Friday or the dogs will have to be put up for sale.The owner is depserate to keep them but cant do it on her own.She needs someone to help for around 3 months. If anyone is in this area and can help could you please contact me on 0269276707 All expenses paid. Julie Also see this post http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=209373

You wil see them al falling into place any time now I just have a job to kick off for Pacers first.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/...o-1225953435282 HIP DJ Samantha Ronson has been sued for over $750,000 after her pet dog allegedly attacked and killed a neighbour's canine. Farnouche Kamran has filed a lawsuit against the celebrity DJ over the death of her pet Tiger, which she claimed had been set upon by Ronson's "vicious murderer" Cadillac in the hallway of their apartment complex. In legal documents, obtained by TMZ, Kamran states that Cadillac had a history of attacking other animals and their owners prior to the August incident. The website adds that Kamran has named the landlord and bosses of her apartment building in the suit alongside Ronson and is seeking medical expenses and punitive damages as well as the six-figure sum. Ronson has previously apologised for the fatal attack, stating that "there are no words to describe" her remorse.

This is true but it would still be good to know the status of all possible info when you are making decisions.

I would feel better if more scans were done and the results published so breeders can say with confidence its not a problem here but the evidence says it is in this country and how prevalent it is needs investigating in my opinion. If its not a problem here and the breeders seem pretty confident its not than we may just have the answer for the UK breeders. But how do we know if we dont test?