Steve

AWL on the Gold Coast have collected info re where the dogs surrendered etc come from. Ill see if I can dig it out - from memory they had 18 % from pet shops. awl stats for surrendered dogs. Notice that the highest category of surrenders is from people who took AWL dogs and dont keep them. There is also a fair amount of talk about people who take their dogs dumping them with the RSPCA too rather than giving them back to AWL. Couldnt say how often that happens but based on the high figures of those that return Id expect that at least some are being handed over to the RSPCA shelters. I also notice that the most surrenders is because the people surrendering them have too many animals or their accommodation and it makes you ask if they do this because they want to or because they have no choice due to council regs - and of course what percentage does this for which reason etc. 29% of dogs being homed bouncing back is a bit much I think - if you add in the likelihood that some will be dumped somewhere else thats around double the pet shop dogs which are surrendered.

AWL on the Gold Coast have collected info re where the dogs surrendered etc come from. Ill see if I can dig it out - from memory they had 16 % from pet shops.

This was in the news on the 10th of November - today http://www.echonews.com/850/index.html RSPCA Buys Resort The RSPCA is buying the Tradewinds Park Pet Resort at Woodburn, which it will continue to operate as a first class pet boarding resort. RSPCA CEO Bernie Murphy said that the profits from pet boarding will be used to establish an animal shelter on adjoining land. "The purchase is expected to be finalised in early February," he said. "The new shelter, when completed in 12- 18 months time, will support the work of the RSPCA in the area as will the recent appointment of a full-time inspector for the region." Mr Murphy said Inspector Peter Bartley will be based at Lismore to cover the far north coast area.

Do you mean they already own it ? Was that an old news article?

O.K. Im not getting it. Do you mean the RSPCA is buying it? edited to add I found it and you mean the RSPCA is buying it - Its not for sale by the RSPCA .

eventually got to it http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...p;#entry4945087 Breeds you could consider: Maremma Anatolian/Kangal Central Asian Central Asians are the most effective LGD at dealing with feral dogs, but the total package is not for everyone. What breed you are partial to, will depend on the breeds general working style in lieu of your property setup and expectations of the dog. Thankyou for all your replys. We have 17 cattle and a dozen goats as well as the sheep....so enough to keep a LGD busy. I am leaning towards the Central Asians, but that is purely looking at the different breeds and what appeals to me. I never knew they were that capable against intruding dogs. I think I have a lot to learn about them, but it is definately something we have to do as this is the 2nd attack on our sheep in the 7 years we have been here. Cheers. Maremmas will do the job.

Its good if people want to donate directly to the vet but we cant issue tax deductible receipts unless it comes through us. Post the vet's details and then people have the choice. We are also going to see if we can help her out in some other areas too as when I spoke with her she still is needing some things due to the fire. She broke my heart when I spoke with her and knowing how upset she was it must have been very emotional for you Carrie to support her. I know you stuck your neck out and broke protocol to help her and the dog and I also know how very much she is appreciating getting a bit of a hand. You're a good girl.

Thank You.

Excellent read! Good on you Steve for getting this ball rolling. With education, is there a way to promote Canine councils in each state as the first port of call for looking for a puppy? I think the canine associations need to push there presence (on tv, in the paper, in vets and in pet shops that dont sell live animals) as a place to find out about all breeds... Unless you are a member, show or know people that do.. there really aren't many ways to "see" them. But when you walk past a pet shop in your local town, and pups are in the window... hey presto.. Ill have to think on how far Id like to go on that one. Im not feeling that warm and fuzzy about doing too much to make em look good. Though the greater good stuff is hanging around in there. Considering SACA refused to allow us to have a stall at their pet expo because they said we were a competitor and the WACA has recently been noted in the minutes of a meeting of having accused the 'Master Dog Breeders and Associates as the newest threat to purebred dogs' it seems to me that there has been little reward for us for the fact that for around 7 years we have done nothing but work our butts off [out of our own pocket] to promote them. I think they need to push their presence too but how much we are going to help them is open to debate.

Yep makes you realise that you aren't so hard done by doesnt it ? Thank you. There's a really nice vet nurse who works for the vet who told us what was going on. Julie

We have a lady we need to help with her chi cross foxie. - Misty. Here is her story. Our client has custody of her two grandchildren one aged 3 the other aged 5 . They have been staying in a womens refuge until very recently and they were able to take Misty with them for their stay due to the attachment the kids have to the little dog. The family is a victim of domestic violence with a bit of a twist. The son [ the kids father] burnt down their house which killed their two other dogs, left them homeless and with nothing except Misty. The family now has been given a place to live via the dept of housing but today as one of the kids came in the gate Misty got out and was run over. She is currently at the vet and the bill is estimated by the vet to be around the 1500 mark and because the owner is on a pension she doesnt qualify for credit. Its difficult to speak with the owner because she is a mess and obviously feeling like its the last straw and is concerned at how these kids let alone herself can cope with loosing their dog if they cant find some help to cover the bill. We would really like to help her to cover the vet bill and get the dog back home so if anyone could spare a couple of dollars it would really help us to give her a hand. Bank account details are - bsb 062600 account number is 10488688 accountdetails MDBA Pacers - all donations to Pacers over $2 are tax deductible so if you need a receipt dont make the donation anon and email us for a receipt [email protected] Julie

So far we have covered a lot of ground in this thread and it feels to me like real progress. Pushing for enforcement of current laws Making the agencies charged with policing these laws more transparent and accountable Education for all cross sections of the community Collection of data and statistics. Seem to be the major things that most of us agree on as priorities and which are the most realistically achievable in addressing the problem of people who breed puppies in sub standard conditions and we just might knock over a couple of other big deals which impact on us as dog owners, breeders and rescue along the way. Out of each of these come sub issues and the need for vision,action and lengthy chats and plans set in place about appropriate ways of approaching them BUT we can no longer do nothing. We can no longer expect that those we have relied on to represent our dog's best interests will do that. Its time.

the "waterbowls are filling up here" they are better at telling me the rain's coming that a phd student in meteorology :D ;)

Sometimes we get people who want to join as as breeder members. We take a long look and think they probably need a bit more education before we would like them to be seen to be our members so we offer them our Introduction to Canine Breeding Course which we put out at cost price. It isnt really like other courses designed to push animal husbandry practices and though it does cover that the emphasis is more on ethics and risk analysis etc . Our stats show we talk about half of them out of it. I personally think anyone who gets through the first unit has been challenged on ethics and consequences of what may appear to be minor decisions. For me they cant say any longer that they didnt know because once they have been exposed to it and they have had to examine the issues regardless of whether they go on to muck it up or walk away they have had to think it through and thats the difference. You can only do better when you know better. Its also important to say we have also chased off some people who thought they might like to be foster carers and we have upset some rescue groups by educating foster course students on things which need to be addressed and the foster carer aware of before they sign up with one group or another. I dont think we have chased any one off owning a dog but we have shown them how to bond with their dogs, get to know them as companions and family members to be too interdependent on them to throw out.

Might just have to throw a little spanner in the works then. And you're the best person to throw that spanner in my view. Im not so sure about that but I cant see anyone else stepping up to the plate

Might just have to throw a little spanner in the works then.

Bloody hell - tell them to come out here. 500,000 here will get you 50 acres and 4 bedroom house with all mod cons - real posh and I doubt that a whole house even exists in this town which would fetch anywhere near $200 a week for rent.

It is so beyond belief. Maybe they changed who they are representing but for got to tell the membership? What is the economic status of Blacktown? Is it really the only way to help the folks in Blacktown get control of their dogs to license all pet owners in the whole state? If the government was held accountable like a business they would never be allowed to take off in this sort of wild direction of massive costs without a hint of evidence this will improve things in Blacktown, never mind the rest of the state. In all reality, the dog attack stats would probably be similar across many LGAs and not just specific to Blacktown. Blacktown is the largest LGA, to my knowlege, in NSW and so the alleged high number of attacks could really only be looked at fairly by taking that fact into account. It is also rated as low socio-economic and I think, one of the lowest in the stats. Low socio economic! My Mum's little 3 bedroom 40 year old fibro house sold for half a million dollars in Blacktown! My sister's house near Bungaribeee Rd was recently valued at over that too. Rents are huge too. If that's low socia ecomomic out around here where a similar house on double the land goes for around 100,000 and rentals are around $150 a week makes you wonder . $500 is nothing for a house Julie. You've been out of Sydney for too long. :rolleyes: Besides, low socio-economic doesn't have anything to do with realestate. Low socio-economic is based on education, income and social status. Well how the hell does anyone afford to keep a roof over their head with those kind of prices? They must be educted better on survival than I am because they are finding that kind of money to live ,they must be getting a hell of a lot more income than I am to pay for it and in my eyes they have a pretty high social status when I look at the those around here who struggle to find enough to eat after paying 100 a week rent. There might be more of em but they are definitely doing something better than us slum dwellers out here!

We are going to give it a try - almost there. The first of what we are planning is almost ready.

It is so beyond belief. Maybe they changed who they are representing but for got to tell the membership? What is the economic status of Blacktown? Is it really the only way to help the folks in Blacktown get control of their dogs to license all pet owners in the whole state? If the government was held accountable like a business they would never be allowed to take off in this sort of wild direction of massive costs without a hint of evidence this will improve things in Blacktown, never mind the rest of the state. In all reality, the dog attack stats would probably be similar across many LGAs and not just specific to Blacktown. Blacktown is the largest LGA, to my knowlege, in NSW and so the alleged high number of attacks could really only be looked at fairly by taking that fact into account. It is also rated as low socio-economic and I think, one of the lowest in the stats. Low socio economic! My Mum's little 3 bedroom 40 year old fibro house sold for half a million dollars in Blacktown! My sister's house near Bungaribeee Rd was recently valued at over that too. Rents are huge too. If that's low socia ecomomic out around here where a similar house on double the land goes for around 100,000 and rentals are around $150 a week makes you wonder .

I might be narrow minded but I am not naive enough to think that this has not and is not already happening...good grief!! Firstly I never called you narrow minded. Secondly at what point did I say I don't already think this is happening... that was my reason for stating ethical registered breeders in my posts. I agree with you that there are already dodgy breeders, I'm just saying that the people that are dodgy and not registered will just become registered. Cool ☻....... this is the dilema of the puppy buyer, in my breed anyway. Yes but part of the reason some of them are dodgey is because we gave them little choice if they wanted to breed. We didnt sell them good breeding dogs when they asked and we didnt help them or work with them and we didnt give them accesss to good stud dogs. If they hung on and wanted to breed anyway they had little choice but to breed with less than perfect dogs bred by people who didnt really have much knowledge to impart to them and because we treat them like crimminals and the enemy they dont mix with us and learn what is needed to help the breed. We have to accept that we have played a role in this too. I agree completely with that Steve. I'd love to breed, but I simply don't have time to make a massive commitment to showing and it seems that if you don't show you're not serious about your breed. It's sad because I love the genetics side of things and have chosen to study it at uni and I think I'd be able to make a positive contribution to my breed of choice. Instead I'll focus on cattle and rare breed pigs once we're on property (hopefully 6mnths). What a shame you are thinking that way you would be an asset to your breed whether you show or not - I have never stepped foot into a show ring and I never will. No one could be more serious than I am about my breed. I've still bred my fair share of champions though and every time someone takes one I bred for a walk its the biggest and best show in the land :rolleyes: they win every time

What invoice number? Sorry Steve, I don't know. I just remember paying through the Pacers website but I don't recall writing down an invoice number. I expect they'll arrive in the next day or two though. Better send me your real name then so I can go looking for you Julie

Yep Thats what I would do too.

Now I feel even more sorry for dogs who have to live on concrete all of their lives.

Nup no holes like these that are close to the house BUT they are in small paddocks and there are water sources pretty close no matter where they are in the paddock.They woudl still have to walk some to get a drink but the sheep stay in the rain and so do they even though they have a shelter they could stay under. However, they have dug different sort of holes - more like shallow graves in the shade -Im guessing that's to keep cool. The bitch actually has a couple of week old lambs there with her now. No wonder no house work gets done around here. Ill add the paddock dogs digging to the digging diary now.