Crisovar

One thing is really clear in this thread, and in others like it that appear here from time to time, and that is that many people are simply after cheap services and not in building a good solid working relationship with the service provider. Good customers are always on the receiving end of "special treatment" in most vet clinics, lots of little extras do not get billed for, staff time not billed for, long term medication discounted, very expensive drugs discounted etc. Joe Blow off the street does not not get the same treatment and why should they, They will be off down the road at the drop of a hat.

Your cost price figures mean screw all, the cost price of products varies greatly from supplier to supplier, as do the freight charges.

That sounds reasonable and average costs to me It seemed reasonable to her until she found out it was marked up 150%. If I was to take your approach I would charge $20 for the consultation and mark up on medication 600%. In the example I gave the Vet could charge $20 for the consultation and $86 for the eye drops. Does this example make it any clearer as to what I mean by hidden charges? But that's not practical because there are plenty of people who have consults that don't go home with medication. And there are also plenty of people who buy medication without having a consult. I still don't understand why you think its not right for vets to mark up their drugs. You haven't explained why you don't think this is reasonable. Forget the price of their services, I just want to know why you don't think its reasonable to mark up the cost of the products they sell. It is not the mark up that is the issue, it is the level. Everyone accepts there is a mark up to cover costs etc. I repeat, is the case I gave as an example of 150% reasonable? but unreasonable compared to what? Do you know what the mark up is on the food you buy at coles or woolworths? You cannot compare a Vet practice to coles. Coles does not charge for a service and you know the price prior to purchasing. It is impractical to have a Vet consultation and then balk at the price of the drugs. If you refuse the drugs because you think they are expensive do you still have to pay for the consultation? I think the answer is yes and then what; visit another vet? but the food you buy at coles has been marked up!! That's the point i'm trying to make! Every vet will have marked up the cost of their medication to around the same price in a particular area, to cover their overheads. Yes, you should have to still pay for the consultation, because that was the vets time, skills and knowledge you have just used. You are welcome to decline treatment though. If your dog has an infection and you are told it needs 'X' antibiotics, you are welcome to decline this. But you should still have to pay for the time it took for the vet to tell you what the problem was. You might find a vet a few suburbs over who have a cheaper dispensing fee, but gees, is it really worth it to save $5? Personally I do not have problem paying. I have owned race horses in the past and the cost of vet fees for my dogs is minimal compared to owning these. As stated in my earlier responses it was brought to my attention by a number of people I have dealings with. I also have knowledge of the industry and have several close friends whom are vets. One vet owns two clinics and has an annual expenditure in excess of $1million with one vet supply wholesaler. If you extrapolate those sales with a 150% mark it brings the gross profit to over one and a half million dollars. And the overheads would be???

Markup is a fact of life whenever any product is sold, You don't seem to understand that drugs and medications are no different, the markup covers freight, GST, dispensing ( labels, packets, vials etc)staff time etc surely you do not expect to get that all for free. Nothing is hidden to deceive you. It is standard business procedure.

I'm sure some people do, but there are just as many others who feel have run out of options, like me. I've been made to feel like the scum of the earth by just about every vet surgery I enquired with (around 8 of them), but I refuse to feel guilty anymore and I'm relieved that we've finally (hopefully) reduced the problem. Yes, it was a convenient way to solve the problem, but after 5 years of complaints, electric collars, confining, anti-anxiety medication, bark-busters, many and various training/dominance methods etc I felt that I had tried all my options. You and so many others who have been in the same situation. And for many dogs the procedure makes all the difference between life and death.

A Vet that only charges you 10% will not be covering their expenses, they will be running at a loss and you will be off looking for a new one pretty damn quick. What do you consider to be hidden charges?

I have only seen one dog with health issues after debarking, and that was a dog that had congenital narrowing of it's airways and should not have been a candidate for the procedure to start with. Can't say that I have ever noticed any difference in the confidence or self esteem of the animals after the procedure either. Yellowgirl, all the ones I have been involved with still bark as much as usual, it is only the volume that is affected.

Do you have any idea how many puppies end up at the Vets in the initial week or so of being bought because the owner suddenly changes their diet? Obviously not. I can tell you here and now that for every one that copes with sudden change, dozens do not, and for some the side effects can take quite some time to control and people have quite sick pups on their hands. Why risk a gastro intesinal upset in a baby?

Yes, this is correct. Puppies get antibodies from their mum's colostrum. While they last, these protect the pup against infectious diseases, but also interfere with vaccination. Maternal antibody protection is lost between 8 and 12 weeks in most puppies, though it can occasionally be lost as early as 6 weeks, or as late as 16 weeks. It's important to vaccinate the pup at least once after these maternal antibodies are gone, so the pup develops effective immunity from the vaccine. Earlier vaccines are given just in case the pup loses maternal antibody protection sooner, as you don't want your pup to be susceptible to parvo etc for longer than he has to be! I'm not sure what the C5 and C3 refer to, as I'm in a different country and we don't use that nomenclature here. I'll personally be vaccinating my next pup 2 - 3 times for parvo, distemper and adenovirus, then only every 3 years after that (and only then if the titres are lost). But check with your own vet, they know your local conditions best. With the new vaccines, these OVER-RIDE the mothers antibodies, this is why they can now be given earlier and have the last vax done at 10 weeks. this is what the Guide Dogs Assoc over here use, so they can get the pups out and socialising at an earlier age. Which brand & product is that, Becks? I've heard of those vaccines (high titre/low passage) being trialed, but didn't know any were commercially available yet. I'd be very keen to look into them, if you'll post the details please. Nobivac are the ones you are wanting.

As a Groomer I see a large variety of breeds and crosses, I can assure you that the problem is widespread amongst the fluffy crosses. It is by no means confined to PBs.

Intestinal wormers kill worms they do not prevent them, with a young puppy they can be constantly reinfecting themselves, 4 weeks between treatments is a long time in the life of a pup. A worm burden untreated for several weeks can impact seriously on your pups health.

I don't understand if i use intraceptor, why do i still have to use the worming product like drontal every 3rd month? Doesn't intraceptor cover the worming? You dont have to use drontal or any other wormers if you use interceptor coz it treats all gut worms +heartworm So does that mean that the twice a week worming from day one is not required if the pup was on interceptor to start off with? Firstly it is every 2 weeks as a general rule not twice weekly. I would be getting to your Vet to do a faecal analysis if you intend to only worm monthly initially, to rule out the possibility of any worms that may have been missed if the pup has had a worm burden. IMO if that is the case the pup would need fortnightly worming with a product such as Drontal.

IMO there is no best, there are different products that work better in different areas and for different circumstances. For instance, in the neighbourhood that I live in, Frontline spot on does nothing for the fleas or the ticks, Frontline Spray works though, Advantage works well for fleas and Preventic Tick collars work really well. Several kms up the road Frontline is effective for the fleas and is working well on brown dog tick (we do not have paralysis tick). I do believe that the fleas and ticks have built up resistance to products that have been in use in some places for a long time. I alternate my wormers for my dogs and my horses for the same reason, I do not use the same product each time.

Fortnightly worming of pups is done using one of the intestinal wormers such as Drontal, that only treat intestinal worms not heartworm as well. You do not use Monthly all in one tablets for this. The vaccination schedule depends on the Breeder and their Vet and what brand vaccine they choose to use. You need to discuss all these things with your Breeder.

Is this part of an "official" warning for the product? My vet gave the C5 and heartworm on the same day - I aksed her if this was standard and she said yes! NO, the Australian product comes with no such warning, in fact it suggests that that it can be given at time of vaccination. The USA/Canada product information is different.

Supermarkets can not sell Heartworm products. What was being discussed in the other thread was intestinal worming products. You can buy daily tabs from the supermarket and the ingredients are identical to any other that is DEC.

That will depend on YOUR dog, all dogs are different, what one does well on another wont, the only real test is to try it.

There is only one drug that is used in the daily HW prevention tabs and that is Diethyl Carbamazine Citrate or (DEC), so it really does not matter what brand you use the big decision is do you want to dose daily or wopuld prefer to go monthly? There is a much wider range of monthly preventatives, so you really need to read up on those or talk to your Vet about the different products.

It is not a case of what is proper, it is the ingredients, you read the labels and choose the product that does what you want it to do, it really isn't that hard. Not all wormers, no matter where you buy them from do the same job. It is also good idea to rotate the products you use, and maybe from time to time get a faecal analysis done to see exactly what, if anything you are dealing with.

I disagree with this, simply because there are too many people out there who would use it as a first option rather than a last option. Even as it stands now, people will try "bark" collars but will refuse to put one that delivers a static shock on the dog because it's considered "cruel". As long as it's done as a last option I don't care, but I agree with the restrictions on it and if anything I'd like them tightened. So more dogs will die for being problem barkers, Ventrilo chordectomy is not cruel, the dog simply is quieter. Considering the biggest proportion of complaints most councils get are for barking dogs and many dogs end up PTS as a result I cannot see why it should be any tougher to have the procedure done. It is a far better alternative than dead dogs.

You have to learn to read the labels. Many supermarket brands are identical, and work exactly the same, you need to compare ingredients.

If you are introducing fleas into your environment after walks, boarding, training, visiting etc, maybe a Capstar tablet before you leave home to eliminate them.

Over use of any insecticide in an area will develop resistance over time. It is a good idea to alternate the products that you use. Maybe try Permoxin, Fidos Rinse, or the Petway one, the name of which escapes me just now.

Ooohhh, dont tell me that persephone. I want to think that if it comes from the butcher it's killed humanely (if there is such a way) I was concerned that wild roo would be full of tapeworms though? I remember something about it being mentioned during puppy class. Thanks for the link Any roo meat you get is wild, and yes they are all shot, no other way to do it with Roos. Best source for bones is a Pet Meat supplier, most of them butcher their own meat so they will have the bones.

I'm afraid I'd be telling them that the dog is clipped in future if they cannot maintain it. I get also fed up with people who rock in full of instructions or wave a how to groom a *&&^%$ book under your nose when the dog is not maintained. Why some of them buy coated breeds I have no idea. It is very frustrating.