Sam&Saki

Oh no. Poor dog. Sounds like she really needs a better home and a better owner :D

There's nothing wrong with a responsible owner making a well thought out decision that their dog is better off not being desexed. However anyone who can't keep their dog in their own yard is not a responsible owner and clearly not capable of caring for an entire bitch. Hmm if your breeding then by all means dont desex but ive seen to many nasty pyometras (uterus infections) to say 'yes not desexing your bitch is a good idea if you have thought it out' because you wouldnt have thought it out that carefully because a uterus infection can kill your dog. And $200 is a small price to pay to get them desexed aj88, if you were to do a search on the topic and you'd find many, many threads on the subject of the pro's and con's of desexing. A well thought out decision regarding desexing would take pyometra into account as one of the many risks of not desexing, but also take into account all the many risks of desexing. There are risks for either decision and which decision should be made for the individual dog depends on the breed, size, pre-existing health conditions of the dog, etc. Yes desexing is the best plan for many bitches - but it is not always. I am not breeding my girl but neither is she desexed (yet), to do so before her inverted vulva corrects itself would be to condemn her to a life of UTIs, vaginitis and vaginal dermatitis. It's not about money, it's about what's best for the dog.

Small to medium breeds are generally considered pups until 12 months old, large to giant breeds are generally considered pups until 18 months old. There are some exceptions with certain breeds, but the above seems to be what most dog foods indicate, and how rules are made about at what age dogs are considered old enough to partake of certain dog sports. Be interested if dog trainers or vets think differently... However there are different types of maturity of course. Sexual maturity is much younger, behavioural/intellectual/ not sure what to call it lol, maturity is much much later!

There's nothing wrong with a responsible owner making a well thought out decision that their dog is better off not being desexed. However anyone who can't keep their dog in their own yard is not a responsible owner and clearly not capable of caring for an entire bitch.

Why doesn't she want the dog desexed? There are different options of desexing these days... Poor girl may need to be checked out, the bleeding stage of being on heat shouldn't go for too terribly long. Also, any dog should have a properly fenced yard that they cannot escape from. If she had this the dog could stay in the yard without ending up escaping impounded. That would be the first thing I'd be fixing, desexed or not!

Hehe Ravyk it's fine, it's just a discussion, DOL discussions can get much more heated than this Well they are right, desexing a dog before it's fully grown causes the growth plates to form improperly which can lead to hip dysplasia among a number of other problems. However if she's 3 years old she is full grown and it's no longer a problem. On the other hand some of the protective advantages of desexing are only in cases if desexed young - eg many of the types of cancers desexing typically protects against, will not be protected against if desexed at this age. It's debatable as to whether your individual dog will be healthier desexed or healthier left entire, and none of us can tell you. It really is a decision that is up to the actual owner of the dog.

What anti-desexing views / anti-desexing campaign? I've never heard of any such thing. There is plenty of documented evidence on the health pros and cons for desexing. Whether or not a dog should be desexed depends on the dog's gender, breed, age, size, and pre-existing medical conditions. In many cases desexing is the best decision for the health of the individual dog, in many cases it is not. If we ever get a pinned thread on this topic I'll go back, find all the research all over again, link to places online where you can download if for free to read yourselves, and provide summaries (including ways in which the research can be misinterpreted.) In the meantime anyone who wants to know the facts can either research them themselves, or see a vet who specialises in this area. It is not a case of us vs them, surely everybody should want to what is medically best for their own individual dog, I would think all dog lovers would agree on that. *** And yes, I have an inside dog in a pet home who is undesexed bitch. I thought the whole going on heat thing would be a nightmare but it was really no big deal at all. Saki sleeps on my bed, is allowed on the couches, and I'm a total neat freak, and I still found it no big deal at all Saki will likely be desexed after her next heat, by implant. This decision is due both to a pre-existing condition and a couple of other things she is at high risk of. My prior bitch was desexed. Personally I couldn't give a **** about people who want to take sides and have a war, I only care about doing what is right for my individual dogs.

lilliesmum this topic has come up many times before. I asked if we could pin one of the many threads that had links to all the studies and research onto the topic, but none of them have been pinned, so the same questions come up again and again. In several previous threads I've linked to all the various places you can download the research and also provided general summaries but to be honest I don't think I can be bothered explaining again and again only for the topic to never be pinned and come up again a month or two later.

And there are also medical risks to desexing. It's a complicated topic and the most accurate summary would be: Desexing a bitch makes her much less likely to get certain types of cancer, but also possibly much more likely to get other certain types of cancer. It's really up to responsible owners to make an informed decision about what is likely to be in the best interest of their own dog.

Dawww cuties! :rolleyes: That fifth photo in the first post is just gorgeous x

If they are concerned about the surgery, then you could let them know that it is now possible to have bitches non-surgically desexed. However if they are responsible owners who would never let an accidental pregnancy happen, why try to coerce them into desexing?

Oh geez, wish I had some advice, but hugs and best wishes to you, what a horrible situation :rolleyes: xxx

I hope he comes back too :rolleyes: x

Oh god I am so sorry Maly My old girl passed away at 13 years old too... Worst time of my life... Hang on to the good memories though, one day you will be able to think of your best friend and smile for all the wonderful times you had. Many *hugs* to you in this horrible time xxx

Ah cool, glad to hear it's something more treatable

BTW sorry to sound so doom & gloom! Hopefully that's not the case at all with your girl, but be good to rule it out x

Oh no Sounds like my girl, she has an inverted vulva (An inverted or recessed vulva is if the vulva doesn't stick out a decent way from their body. If it only sticks out a little they are constantly moist, uncomfortable and prone to infections. It's really hard to tell just by looking! But bitches with normal vulvas do not pee on themselves or have moistness there all the time.) It may well never correct itself if you've had her desexed I HATE that some vets will desex bitches with inverted / recessed vulvas - so WRONG Usually only takes a heat or two to correct it. Otherwise only options are (a) lifelong problems with infections, vaginal dermatitis, vaginitis, damaging her fur / stinging her skin from the urine touching it or (b) surgery on her girly bits Perhaps go to a reproductive specialist and find out if it's inverted or not? x

Oh poor little thing, hope she picks up and the breeders make good on their promise to pay. x

My Akita has surprisingly good recall! However, good recall in the house or yard or friends place or even off-leash park doesn't really translate to good recall after escaping the yard - there's a difference between coming when called and coming back when escaping!!! I find the best thing to do is make excitable high pitched noises and then run as fast as you can in the opposite direction - doggy will then turn and chase you rather than expecting you to chase them! That and never ever ever let your spitz escape in the first place x

Saki's left pawed! Does that mean she's all creative and artistic and stuff, like left handed people? x

No, that makes sense, and is good to know Just have to weigh up the relative risks and benefits of everything I suppose! x

I was thinking of trialling Saki on Royal Canin too... Hmmm. Oh gosh Saki would love to eat tinned Pedigree too, she loves the smell and taste, doesn't mean it's good for her though, heh! I find it cheaper and easier to mix an ordinary tin of sardines into her dry food to make it more appetising, sardines are so good for them and their coat. Eggs are good too Oh does dry food put dogs at a higher risk of bloat? Just the cheaper (even cheaper than supermarket tinned food) kibble stuff or all dry food? I know we need to feed them more frequent, smaller meals; and limit their food/drink intake prior to and after exercise... Didn't know dry food increased the risk though x

Woohoo, finally someone as paranoid about their dog's size as I am about mine! My Akita hasn't reached the minimum height or weight of the breed standard yet either and I wondered all the same things. After harrassing all of DOL, previous local vet, trainers and specialist vet about it - conclusion is that although her Dam and Sire were both very large, she is a throw back to a prior generation which threw the occasional smaller dog. If you already know your dog has one small parent doubtless it's just your dog takes after them As far as I can tell, here on DOL, at my dogs' classes and vets and among most dog owners I know, some feed raw, some feed BARF, some feed supermarket food, but most feed premium dry food (you get this at a pet supply store or vet) mixed with additional bits and pieces. Personally I have my dog on Hill's Science or IAMS or Eukanuba with puppy milk and/or sardines and other treats. Although premium dry foods are a lot more expensive than supermarket food, it is so much better for them that they eat less (and go to the toilet less, and smell better) so it doesn't really work out more expensive in the end IMO. Most of my personal friends have their dogs on similar diets, although I know some go for wholistic premium dry food (Eagle Pack etc) which is that bit more expensive again than premium dried food. These are just my observations, I'm not a doggy nutritionalist by any means! You'll find many people with different opinions on what food dogs should be on, but you just do what is best for your dog x

Puppy pre-school told us never to play tug with our dogs because it encourages dogs to be aggressive and dominant with their owners. Dog obedience school told us that tug toys are the best toys you can use to play with, bond with, and train your dogs. Another one of the bazillions of issues that dog trainers / dog people are divided on... Personally I play tug with my Akita and have not experienced any ill effects Just go with what works for you and your pup x

Well said Wolfsong