LizT

All puppies have always cost the same to breed and raise. The registration papers currently cost $29 for main and $22 for limit so if a puppy was sold less the cost of the papers that would be the only saving. I have never understood why papers could cost hundreds more when the registration fee was such a tiny fraction of the puppy price. I think a lot of people who previously bought without papers were shonked by unregistered breeders who were not able to register the puppy anyway. The difference now is that you get limit papers to prove that the puppy is indeed the one you thought you bought. So that is my final word on this as we are getting off topic a bit about Owey's sick puppy. Owey, I hope the blood sample got away and that the puppy is hanging in there while you wait for the result. Did the "breeder" get the parents and siblings tested at the same time? Did restrictions exist in the past for the amount of litters a bitch could produce in a given time frame as does now? Could be a factor if it did. Breeders may have produced "Pet Only" litters that went under the Radar of the registration body. Could be one of the reasons Limited came into being.

So glad to hear that puppy is on the improve. Fingers and paws crossed that the tests come back with good news for Bailey. Yes, we move on and do the best we can for the dogs we are responsible for. Bailey is lucky to have you and your family. :)

I believe it was common in SA and WA for some odd reason but not in the eastern states. I bought my first show dog 29 years ago in Vic and the others in the litter all went with papers back then. Lots of pet dogs got borrowed back for litters or sired litters in those days, as needed, because they all had full papers. In fact in the next decade I only met two people who had started out with a dog without papers. I bought a Miniature Poodle from a registered Breeder who also showed a very long time ago, I was given a "Pet Only" pup with hand drawn papers for considerably less than one with Registered papers would have cost. This was approx. 35 years ago. My families German Shepherds all came with the same type of arrangement. As Dad always said, "What good is a piece of paper? I can't buy dog food with it"? (PS. MY dad is a HUGE tightass) but he did have a point there. It was a pattern that I followed for many years. If teh dog came with papers that was a bonus. It was only because my Shipperke came with papers that I decided to Show her. I was able to take her to Obedience without papers so it didn't restrict what I wanted to do, her being papered opened more doors though. The same scenario today, and she would probably be on Limited if I just bought her as a Pet. This arrangement can no longer be done and consequently all dogs cost the same to breed and register and their end price is the same more or less. Some might offer cheaper for limited, most don't since all relevant expenses didn't factor if they were Limited or Main Reg.

So really, when all is said and done. BYB's need to have some form of education too. If they are going to breed dogs they need to know about the health issues of said breed. Of course ,this is almost impossible if they are "one off" breeders who just want to breed the one litter. How can this be achieved. Health testing in itself isn't madatory even for ANKC registered breeders. Would a BYB health test if they knew what diseases were at risk? Surely it is not all about the almighty dollar for ALL BYB. I'm sure some would do the right thing,if they could. Again, this may have more to do with the introduction of Limited Registration. Once it was fine for a Registered breeder to sell an unpapered dog, for considerably cheaper than a papered dog, and this puppy had the benefit of the wisdom, knowledge and experience that went into producing it's parents and litter mates. Okay, at least with limited Register we have a way of verifying if he breeder is ANKC registered, so that is a good thing, and yes, there are still plenty of ANKC breeders who fall short of their responsibilities too. Really, there is no simple answer. I too have in the past not seen the worth of spending $1200 on a "pet" when I could get the same breed for $400. I was lucky, it did not come back and bite me in the bum, but in hindsight could so easily have done so.

Wise post/advice as always :). Thank you Jed. I have 3 doglets. They are the same 'breed' but have different needs re training, food, activity level, etc. It takes time, patience and a whole lot of commitment to understand what suits your dog. BTW, I would not have it any other way! Ahhh variety is the spice of life. And don't forget my old friend "trial and error"! :)

Very true....and sometimes "What is old is new again"!

:laugh: That little "duckie" certainly turned out to be a swan!

Hmmm..."let sleeping dogs lie". Although I got the impression she snaps when you try to pat her on the back and bum when awake too.

If you warned the groomer that she has snapped when you've been working on knots it's more than likely the groomer used a soft muzzle on her, just to be on the safe side. If she has bitten you and your husband on more than one occassion and drawn blood in the process it is really quite serious. Just because she is small doesn't make it any less a concern than if she is a larger dog (be assured I'm not suggesting you are not taking this seriously, clearly you are :) ). Sometimes we tend to make allowances based on the dogs size (or lack of), but as you will soon have a small child in the household this needs to be address sooner rather than later and it is unlikely anything suggested on an internet forum will give you the quick response you need. Other than perhaps a reference to a good dog behaviourist. I'm sure there have been many days where she is perfect for you and your husband too. Did she get much socialisation/basic training when you first got her?

I hear you, my girls are all "Amazon Bitches" LOL. I'm just lucky Cavaliers don't have a height restriction as such. :)

As with everything in life you soon learn to separate the wheat from the straw. Glean what you can, and most importantly use what works for you. :)

Is going oversize something that stems from the bi-colour origin or is it something that can occur in all colours and just a bit of bad luck?

This is what I'd be doing too....or is it possible to build a dog run, with a roof & a padlock for you to put him in when your not around?? I really feel for you, it's awful that you can't even leave your dog in his own backyard these days without the fear of him being stolen. I hope they catch the lowlifes that are doing it very soon. A dog run with a GOOD padlock is a great idea but if the are desperate enough a good set of heavy duty wire cutters will be all it takes. Cameras, sensors and keeping your dog indoors when not a home. Liasing with neighbours is also a good idea, especially your doggy neighbours.

Yes, Cavaliers, Poodles, Shih Tzu, Bichons and combinations thereof are extrememly popular in Pet shops.

Yep! And that black & Tan on the end is listening very intentively! :D

Oooohh Aaahhhh! So much coat already! Lovely.

When Crystals waters broke both times there was quite a puddle. Take her temperature at least 4 times a day if you do.

I have four week old puppies here at the moment and I have recently placed a piece of newspaper in the side of the whelping box and the little darlings have begun to toddle over and pee on the paper. This is the beginning of toilet training for these little ones. I will eventually put them in a puppy pen and place newspaper there for them to pee on. After a while I put the newpaper into a puppy toilet and after they have got the hang of peeing on that I replace the newspaper with pee pads and a piece of fake grassturf. We take the pups outside when older to pee as often as possible, whether permitting, using a trigger word when they go to help encourage the act next time they go out. This is where they are at when the new owners will take over. :)

Very good point Showdog! Being a Poodle she would have had to have maximum handling when bathed/groomed. Any growling then?

So Bi-black is recognised and registered and can be shown then?

Great to see these two doing so well and looking so awesomely lovely! Especially after all that had transpired. :)

I agree with getting her Vet checked in case of pain or discomfort. Also, is the dog from a Registered Breeder who has temperament tested her parents or are the temperments of her parents an unknown quantity? Sadly, it may well be a case of poor breeding choices and if this has been a pattern for her since a small puppy will require some professional help from a good behaviourist. Regarding her not pooing on paper, have you ever noticed if she starts out squatting on the paper but moves away during the course of opening her bowels? Many dogs do this, they feel the need to circle or move around to "keep things going".

Just reading this thread. It is so sad that good people just "want a dog as a pet" and think that a Registered dog is just for Showing or Breeding "with papers". It really sounds like the puppys breeders really have no idea, and have brought these babies into the world with blind enthusiasm. I feel for you new puppy owners as all you wanted was a pet and truly it appears you have had the bad luck of buying a puppy with the potential to become so ill with a preventable condition.

But in Victoria they can't advertise unless quoting the microchip number at least.

Have you looked into a Schipperke? :)