mita

Good suggestion about the Dogzonline Breed Community Pages. Lots of info there, Puppies and Mature Dogs available, and links to breeders' websites. I hope you find just the Tri-colour sheltie that you want. We got a sable/white female sheltie from a Qld registered breeder & we couldn't have been happier.

Me, too, sandgrubber. However, there's a doc file, Issue of Guidelines on Dog Breeding Establishments, which relates to this new Irish legislation. Scroll down to link. One snippet of info introducing that link: It is important to note that only establishments with six or more female dogs over 6 months of age are covered by the Act. http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/DogControl/#Issue%20of%20Guidelines%20on%20Dog%20Breeding%20Establishments I don't want to jump to conclusions before finishing reading the Guidelines. But I'd be just as concerned about 'breeders' with less than 6 female dogs, who are unwilling, &/or incapable, of making sound decisions about breeding, raising, socialising... within a context of general welfare issues. Could be a loophole, in that 'puppy farming' divides stock into smaller establishments with numbers outside the reach of that Act. Then, it would matter if there's any other Irish dog welfare legislation that could apply.

Me, too, Anne. I've never been sure about the status of 'goods' as donations. Or even what's counted as 'goods'. Surely it can't be things like food. AWL Qld has bins at various supermarkets which attract generous donations of food, treats, toys from the public. But, for the sake of argument, what if something 'big' is donated like a brand new freezer?

There's a Word of Mouth website that takes an approach of consumers posting recommendations from their experiences with all sorts of services. I stumbled on it and found the local groomers I've taken our dogs to, for years. When I read the posts from clients recommending this service, I couldn't agree more with the content. Only thing that's not up-to-date is fact that the service has moved to next suburb now. http://www.womo.com.au/reviews/Aunty-Margs-Clipping-And-Grooming-Keperra/ But, even a positively pitched website like this, would need to be used with great caution. Any dodgy business could get their 4 best friends to post glowing recommendations. So a negatively pitched website would have no credibility at all IMO. If someone has a consumer complaint, they should take it to the state agency which deals with such matters. I'd agree with HA, that general consumer guidance is a good way to go. In fact, CHOICE (the Australian Consumers Association) already has a webpage giving such advice on getting a puppy or a dog. They point out all sorts of sources....& hint at pitfalls. Basically, they're pointing people to registered breeders and ethical shelters & rescues (links are provided). I've often thought that this page should be expanded on the specifics of what to look for when dealing with registered breeders, shelters & rescues. Best of all, CHOICE is a well-known, highly respected organisation....that operates with transparency. http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-and-tests/household/backyard/pets/buying-a-dog.aspx

Funny that the same kind of transparency, which is a feature of ethical rescue, doesn't seem to apply on that FB page! Who's guarding the 'guardian'?

I like the idea of donating directly into a vet's account, as keetamouse posted. Vet fees are one of the highest costs for rescuers. Yet they're essential for quality care. I admire the adopters she's described, who add $50 or so on to the purchase price. I bet those folk have figured out that rescuers put far, far more into their work than adoption fees can ever cover. I also like dogmad's & (& others) emphasis on transparency re any moneys received. When I know a rescuer very well.....I'll say, when handing over a donation, 'I don't care how you spend this. It's entirely up to you. I don't even care if it's used towards petrol for your car or towards your massive phone bill.' Most decent rescuers never ask for anything to cover their own personal costs.....like petrol or car maintenance or phone bill. Their first thought is always on costs directly associated with the dogs.

Sorry to break the flow. But good on you for putting the much maligned Pit Bull on your list. A lost female Pit Bull once turned up at our place (along with her sweet, ditzy spaniel friend). She was a beautiful looking dog, glorious colour & healthy coat. Also biddable, intelligent and very affectionate. One of the nicest dogs I've met.

I already have picked the first 2: 1. Tibetan Spaniel 2. Shetland Sheepdog 3. Welsh Spaniel 4. German Shepherd 5. Kelpie

Dogmad, I looked at the new pics before I read your post. My very first thought was, 'Ellie's smiling! She's home and she knows it.' Happiness has made her even more beautiful. It's your & the others prep work that's helped her settle so well. Any further update photos will always be welcome. Hint, hint...

Awww! That is so lovely! Talk about moving in to her new home, with grace and style. Good on you for being there for her.

Well done everyone who persisted & helped alongside Dogmad. It will be wonderful for Ellie to get the chance to be a loved dog in a family. I agree with kazads.....what a great way to go into 2012.

This and in other threads. It happened to me on another thread and I was wodnering if I'd had too many shandys on Xmas day for a few minutes before I realised what had happened. Could it be that the ninja had too many shandies on Christmas Day? Though I'd expect ninjas to drink rice wine or saki or something exotic. This thread keeps going on.... In one corner are pure-bred dogs where data is available on the breeding aims, decisions & outcomes from their history.....as well as assessment possible re current state of health, functionality & temperament. In the other corner are rescued or BYB or petshop dogs.....with little or no data available on breeding and none on history....but where assessments can be made about current state of health, functionality & temperament. Chances for all-round quality favour the first group, but chance can throw up some OK dogs in the second. It's those higher chances that send many pet buyers to registered breeders who operate at quality level. And it's those OK dogs, screened out by rescues/shelters, that can attract people to adopt a rescue dog. Of all our dogs, the healthiest across a long lifetime have been a p/b sheltie & a p/b tibbie and a little rescued mixed breed dog of unknown origins. In terms of temperament, the most outstanding have been another p/b sheltie & 2 p/b tibbies and the same little rescued mixed breed dog of unknown origins. Interestingly (but not statistically significant), a p/b tibbie & a little rescued mixed breed dog made both lists.

An ERD....Excellent Red Dog. He is so sweet.

The Tibetan Spaniel Club of Victoria has available a Birthday Calendar, same size and appearance as an annual calendar, but with spaced lines for each month where you can record names of family and friends on their birth dates. Which means it's not just confined to one year. Lovely pictures of tibbies of all colours and doing all sorts of things, on the front cover and for each month. On back page, is a photo of the Dalai Llama's huge traditional palace in Tibet. Here the Birthday Calendar, with a line-up of tibs.

That is so sweet! Chloe was very clever to take herself up the driveway of someone like SC, who'd care about helping her home. Your Frenchie, being just as clever, would probably board a ship bound for New Caledonia or Tahiti where it could ask in its native language, what's the way home.

Couple years ago, there was an article in that newspaper put out by the kennel association. The front page article was about an unlikely alliance (words used) by AWL in South Australia and the Kennel Association there. AWL had noted the overwhelming number of small 'designed' dogs being dumped or surrendered to them. And, by comparison, only very small numbers of dogs that were most likely purebreeds. Both associations were speaking with one voice that something was very wrong with how those designed small dogs were born, bred, sold and cared for. Someone may still have a copy tucked away.... Just anecdotally, I keep an eye on AWL Qld's small dogs that have come into their care. And I notice how there are definitely less that could be purebreds. The ones that figure a bit more, are those that have become 'fashionable' breeds.... But there's no way of telling if they're the products of BYBs and puppy-farmers. However, the majority still look like mixed breeds.

That message is an over-simplified one. You're right, it lumps good ethical registered breeders and what they produce.....in with BYBs and puppy farmers. The evidence is that the puppies born and bred by ethical registered breeders are less likely to be later dumped or surrendered. So buying puppies/dogs from them is helping prevent numbers of homeless dogs. RSPCA Qld put in their last February email update that people should go those ethical breeders for puppies/dogs and to responsible ethical rescues. I also saw a note on the AWL Qld Facebook page recently, saying much the same thing. CHOICE (Australian Consumers' Association), in a subtle way, suggests a similar approach on their website. Registered breeders, shelters like AWL & RSPCA, & rescues. Links are provided for all. Perhaps be proactive & ask those rescues which are giving out the over-simplified message to qualify what they're saying.

Absolutely, jaymatt. On the day I saw the loose, huge (biggest I've seen!) Rottie, I asked the people inside the library to help....& described the dog and the danger he was in. The only men in the library went deaf & almost hid under a table. Four of us women went out to do something. Two librarians, a young woman and me, all experienced & caring dog owners. As I've explained, the Rottie was a sweetie.....suspicious of us strangers at first. But as soon as I crouched & called him 'darling', his face lit up. Here was friends!!!! 'Can you sit, sweetheart?' asked one of the other women. ' Sweetheart' obeyed with a thud, right on my foot!! The librarians led him off to their office to wait for his owners (ID on collar).....using a piece of string as a lead!!! I'm not arguing for people to be foolhardy or to place themselves in danger when there's pretty clear signs of that. But my first impression of the huge Rottie was how well-kept he was, in excellent condition, and wearing a handsome collar where his ID tags could be clearly seen. Chances were, we thought, that was a well-cared for dog, well socialised with his owners. Just like your sister's shepherd would be. We didn't corner him or 'go at him'. And he responded to the cues he already knew so well.....people are OK, especially when they call him 'darling' & 'sweetheart'!

Fair point, megan.

Yes, it was disappointing that the rangers wouldn't even discuss it with the RSPCA Inspector. It's impossible to arrive at any conclusions based on the few facts that seem to be clear. Terribly sad case and I can understand the owner's grief and wish for further information. BP, I agree with you about the vulnerability of the big dogs for being viewed differently, & so treated differently, when on the loose. But accidents happen in the best of circumstances (look how my 2 precious tibbie girls were let out!). My hope, tho', would be that any big dog (who's really a good dog in normal circumstances) would be lucky, and meet people who are dog savvy enough not to leap to conclusions based only on their size. And I include rangers in that. Just a general comment (& not about this particular case), I wonder what kind of training in dog behaviours and management rangers get.

There appears to be no independent witnesses to what actually happened when Hector was captured and capsicum spray apparently used. It does say he got into somebody's yard.....& the mother and children hid themselves inside their house (understandable when they knew no history of that dog). To many members of the public, a dog the size of a Dogue would make them them believe it could be dangerous. Some time back I found a huge, well-kept Rottie on the loose outside our local library. One of the many reasons that a few of us made the effort to get him off the roads....& check his ID....was that the sheer sight of him could send many people into hysteria. No surprise, that when we got him....by my crouching down & calling, 'Come here, darling!'....he proved to be a big, affectionate sweetheart. But we had no illusions that numbers of people might have called for police with a gun! He was lucky he got spotted by some dog savvy people. ID on his collar led to his owner. Sadly, the details about Hector are still not clear.....as the final bit in the OP article says that the rangers declined to talk to the RSPCA inspector. But I have a niggling feeling that his size and 'looks' may have contributed to how his 'finders/catchers' interacted with him.....& he with them. By contrast, when our 2 small golden tibbie girls got let out by a visiting tradesmen, they took themselves into a yard and house where a day care mother was looking after a bunch of littlies. Thanks to their size....& how all inter-acted with each other, they were welcomed like visiting angels. And were duly carried home (by the biggest of the children) in a little procession (thanks to collar ID). What if Hector the Dogue had turned up in that yard? I'd say that big dogs carry a special vulnerability with them when they get loose. People are more worried by them....given they don't know their history. And might not be dog-savvy enough to test them on the spot.

Thanks, megan. I googled & found the Media Release from RSPCA NSW re the charges being dismissed. The last paragraph says that the informant in this case was already a 'person of interest' in case being prosecuted by RSPCA. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Yk3x8HFLPQkJ:www.rspcansw.org.au/home_news/news_items/rspca_speaks_out_after_allegations_against_president_dismissed+Australian+December+2011+President+of+RSPCA+NSW&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au&client=safari

I googled after reading your post, Woof....& found this submission about equine dentistry from the AVA. Pretty recent, January 2011. Makes mention of how they see the use of power tools....as well as a general list of practices. Just adding, this is just general info....whatever is at the bottom of this vet's case, is a matter for the courts & will get revealed there. https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:rz5lqqoR00cJ:www.ava.com.au/sites/default/files/AVA_website/pdfs/Equine%2520Dentistry%2520AVA%2520submission%2520January%25202011%2520FINAL.pdf+Power+tools+equine+dentistry+Australian+Veterinary+Association&hl=en&gl=au&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiLYyN0NAsQkq0DdGqvdicn0k2b6A8Lcv57__GYOnzbyXL69fVauDBJV2H-p8hM2DLLiy8_iXlksfNJFaWHIlpcp-8ld4SNHUiAumaLqL8Lsx3k14OhfeNkG3XLhcHabAvBeH3G&sig=AHIEtbTYoVXAFgwCBLT60qy_Be6zD4cZvA

The evidence is now so strong that banning specific breeds does nothing for public safety, that it would be hard for anyone, who has professional credentials in veterinary science, to stick with a breed ban position. Here's hoping that these more enlightened positions will lead to better understanding of humans interacting with dogs....and how safety around dogs, all dogs, can be managed. As others have said, tho', the 'old' position led to the legislated killing of so many innocent dogs, who'd never done harm and showed no likelihood of ever doing so. They just happened to be a pitbull... or someone armed with authority said they looked like they had pitbull in them.

Similar report in The Australian. Uses much the same words. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/head-of-rspca-to-face-court-over-cruelty-claims/story-fn3dxity-1226225088449