MonElite

Group hug Rocco if what Ash said is true - you are trying to HELP some people I have some quiet advice to give you. If you are in the photography business dont help your potential competition, they will take your business away. Work in partnership with someone - different story, but help competition, a bit silly. JMO based on being burned by helping someone that I thought was be a partner (turn competitor)

Ditto to what kja said. BTW kja - I love your pics, always have, especially the underwater ones!

So its the blind buyers that cheapen the industry, not the amateur photographers, right?

And they would be prepared to pay for them. Im guessing. So unless someone takes shots for exhibition/judging its irrelevant as to if I like they or you like them or next door neighboor hates them. It is up to the buyer to decide, isnt it?

I just wanted to know if you are pro, I know most of the people in this thread, if they are pro or not, thats all. I guess pros v's non pros have different views on the subject.

This is how many people feel. And its not only about photography. I guess I might belong to the crowd that could cheapen the industry...... now come to think of it. I took this photo on weekend. I dont own expensive equipment, Im a super duper amateur and I would never ever charge anything for taking a photo. The owner of the dog loves it, she happens to have the same camera I do and loves taking pics herself too! Considering that this photo had absolutly no work done to it, I think Ive done well. I like taking pics and I will give soft copies to those that want them, if someone mentiones that I took the pic its just a nice touch. Now at the event there could have been an official photographer, last year there was a pro there and their photos are million times better then mine will ever be. it would be up to the owner of the dog to decide if she wants to pay for a better pic from the pro. From a personal perspective and past experience - I wanted photos of myself taken about 6-7 years ago. I could have asked some friends with pretty damn good gear to take them but I chose to go to a pro and paid a lot for them. And I still like the pics and have them in my house. But now that I know a pretty good photographers I will go to them if I want something on my wall. The photo I took will never be on someone wall, I would never put it up, its just not good enough to be on a wall, but makes a great profile pic on Facebook

Linda K - are you a pro? Is this your website? http://timelessimagesbylindak.squarespace.com/

snap jaxx and kja

Most likely not. So are you now saying that all those unprofessional photographers undercutting every pro one went and spend 20K on the equipment but cant take pics yet charge money for them? I dont think so... What is your point?

I dont think my hairdressed has any quals. Neither does one of my best friends that does make up. And she charges A LOT. I just simply can not see any significant difference between photography and few other industries and I cant see how some people charging less are cheapening the industry as a whole. In a business there is competition, people need to learn how to deal with it. Now I might put a twist onto it. I think photographers want to view themselves more as artists then service providers and therefore think that prices for their art should stay high? Win couple of awards and all of a sudden one becomes expensive? If thats the case good on them! And if thats the case use it as a marketing tool! Makes you more pro. And if you are a tip top pro then why would you bother worrying with the amateurs? I can compare it to dog breeding since we are on a dog forum. One will breed their extensivelly health tested grand champion bitch to an imported dog with lots of titles and charge money for their effort and to recoup the cost they had in 4 digit number price, another will breed two dogs and give them away for $100 each. Does the GR CH breeder worry about the backayrd breeder next door as a competitor? not really. Does it cheapen the shows and the championships? I dont think so. Some people will only buy a pedigree dog, some are happy with something looking like some sort of a breed. Different target markets.

You dont I do. And I know about 3 that picked up a large make up case and became make up artist "overnight" doing expensive wedding make ups. How would a make up artist differ to a photographer in that regard? If printing of pics isnt the main thing... I think for the purpose of the discussion in this thread Id say - those that are professionals should look at what they do and worry about their work not about others. If you are good and have good business skills then you will suceed regardless of competition. And perhaps in improving photo skills a way to suceed would be to improve business skills. Im sure that most have heard of the people that are able to sell ice to Eskimos. is their ice better? probably not! butt they have the skills to sell it.

There are plenty of industries similar to photography, hairdressing as an example. You dont need a salon to be able to cut hair and charge for it. And there isnt a huge outlay in anything to get you going. Massage is another, personal training, dog training, consultancy of any sort, interior design, pool or fish pond maintenance I could go on and on. And you dont need to study for most of those for ages, people with some talent in a certain area will pick up on the skill in no time and be VERY good at it, from nothing. I cant see how in photography low prices differ to any of the industries I mentioned above and how it cheapens the industry as a whole. Or are you saying that this applies to any industry? I get a hairdresser to come to my house to colour and cut my hair. And he isnt cheap, I save very little comparying to going to a salon, and I have a bathroom to clean up afterwards! Why do I do it? - because I like he does the hair. He chooses the colours I like and cuts hair very well. I get few girls around, we drink champagne and have our hair done. He could charge half of what he charges, it would even be better, and there are people out there that do that. Does it cheapen the industry? Dont think so, there are PLENTY of people going to Tony and Guy salons to pay over $300 for a haircut. ............blah blah blahWhat is it then? if its not a service? And any other service doesnt require learning of the skills, purchasing things to do the busienss with? My point is that photography ISNT different to any other industry and some people charging low prices happens everywhere. Its up to the consumer to decide what they want and what they are willing to pay for what quality service/product. As consumers people need to do their research and make decision on what they want and what they are prepared to pay. As busienss owners people need to make decisions as what is their target market, what they want to chage and how they going to market themselves. And researching competition is certainly one aspect of it. But that doesnt mean that what one does other should do as well.

my post was a reply to the original post Specifically this bit And this In the industry where Ive got my money invested there are tip top products made in Germany that cost a lot of money. There also are asian knock offs that cost a third, even look the same. Should I tell the shop up the road taht they cant sell the asian knock off because Im selling the good German stuff? I ahve no right to do that. I can provide better service, I can lower my prices or I can pack my bags and go elswhere. This is how competition works in ANY industry. There were some regulated ones but most go deregulated resulting in end user benefiting. Telecommunication is one prime example. When I came to Australia in 1989 I paid $2.10 per minute for a phone call to Poland. Now I might be paying $0.21 if that. Competition, thats all. I guarantee you Telstra doesnt like it, just like I dont like the shop down the road selling cheap filters.

Isnt it an industry like any other service industry? If you want a massage you can get one for $40 an hour and you can get one for $400 an hour. What gives the right of the $400 an hour person to tell the other that they are too cheap? Business is business, some like to be exclusive, expensive and have little work some are cheap and flood the market with what they do. Different service providers appeal to different target markets.

Just those words tell me that you have never actually felt an ecollar on yourself. And that you know nothing about trainign with a remote trainer.

If you are going to be in Sydney I have a room to let at the moment, short or long term. Its relativelly close to the city and I have 3 dogs. PM me if you wish for more details.

Why???

Would that be the beach on Foreshore Dr on Botany Bay?

Hehehe - it just hit me. One of my dogs is named FURY ;) how appropriate Also Im trying to picture the actress and the dog bailing her up, if she isnt dog savy she will most likely freak out...

Id love to see this too. Like sometimes they have bloopers at the end of movies.

He said this Staranais

ARe you saying Rotties, dobes etc ARE that way or they aren't from birth? Just curious - not having a dig. They are not born as fully trained personal protection dogs. Those that pretend they are are most likely not stable enough and to reactive to be placid family pets. Im not saying that a working dog cant be a family pet, but there are plenty of people there looking for their first dog and getting a working line one, they read about sharpness and calm deep full mouth grips and want one. Usually for wrong reasons and usually with no knowledge on how to bring up such dog.

Most unexperienced/lacking knowledge peoplethink that if they get a working line dobe, mal, dutch shephers, working (pref black) GSD, rottie their dog automatically will perform a role of a personal protection dog. With no training, they are just born that way.

Yet Border Collies, Kelpies, Cattle dogs, Belgian Shephers, Collies etc etc etc have nowhere near as much slope as GSDs. Considering that GSDs are rarely used for herding how does this argument stand??