MonElite

With Borats accent - Hi Five

See the thing is that in THEORY I know how to do it, but I have not ever met a dog that the theory was sucessfully applied to.

The dog was crated for several days before it as time to let it out for some time

Of course this is what you would need to do and it, again, sounds good in theory. However there are situations where its not possible to do. The dog chasing chickens example. It was a xmas day chooks in a pen at the back of the house, dog in the yard. No need to say going nuts to get to the chickens as it has never seen them that close. In order to have peace and quiet one solution would be to lock the dog up in a crate for the whole day, but this was not a good option. We let the dog out it run to the choocks, we wacked it on the head with the broom (im sure Ill be told off for that) about 3 times when it attempted to carry on like a fruitloop, then stood between the dog and the chickens for 30 minutes and if it tried to go anywhere near the area we raised the broom it eventually understood that its a no go zone. It tried few more times during the day but a verbal correction was enough, or the sight of the broom. To me achieving something satisfactory in a short period of time was the goal and we did. It doesnt mean that the dog is trained not to chase the chickens as Im sure it would if given an opportunity. I just belive that sometimes a short term result is important, hence there is no time for the pure positive training. Mind you I still think that dog could not be taught not to kill chickens with pure positve methods.

Yes. but it has reinforced its high prey drive with self reward of chasing and sucessfully killing several chickens and ducks. So there is no better reward to it than the chook. And for the purpose of this discussion I asked how would one train a dog like this with no corrections. Locking up the chickens or the dog is management not training. The dog is being currently managed, meaning it has a very limited freedom.

That was an example of a real situation I have recently encountered. But hey your indulgence in theory was nice, shame with that particular dog all has been tried and failed. She even ignored highest settings on ecollar. Mind you 100% reliable recall when on long line. I guess super smart dog (not mine if anyone is wondering)

No is the short answer. I train Furia most, she is my training buddy these days and loves it. Divani on occasion and I think of it every day as I want to enter her in another trial and need to remind her what obedience is about, I should train her but dont, I guess its lazyness. She is good at tracking and I need to improve it with her, but who on earth would want to get up every day to do it Rex - well he is old, he never puts the foot wrong and I dont need to do anything with him. So he just is. But when I do TOT when I feed, I dont ask him to sit, he just does as I ask the girls and he always does any command issued even if its not for him When I go to the club I take Furia, and on a very odd occasion Divani. But Im thinking about joining Agility club with just Divani so it will be "our" time together. She loves the obsticles so should enjoy the training there.

But I consider it cheating a bit dont know why, I just do. Mind you its not to say I wont wear the vest in the ring, need all the help I need

Do I dare say that many did? or will this start antoher war discussion about different lines?

I dont agree with the any in the above sentence, but I do agree that solid bond with the dog allows the handler to perform more "unpleasantlies" to the dog that to the one with no bond. Lets take nail cutting as an example. My dogs dont like it, but they let me do it. I dare say they would want to run away or possibly bite in fear if a stranger wanted to do it to them. This is not to say that over corrections have no effect on the bond, hence what you said is somewhat true and somewhat not. IMO of course

Im with Kelpie-I on the subject of the stock chasers that self satisfy their drive through killing stock.

Roast chickens? But seriously, it's really not about finding a "better reward" than whatever other reinforcers are out there. Unless we're talking about bribery... Roast chickens OK, lets say the dog finds chasing and killing chickens ultimate reward, it has killed several of them, what do you do? (other then of course prevent the chasing and killing from happening) And lets stick of dogs not some other animals

Compulsion is a somewaht unwelcomed word. Sounds harsh and strong. Why not choose correction as a word? In my opinion its not possible to reliably train a dog without using some kind of corrections as some stage. Its possible to teach the dog behaviours with no corrections providing that there is no stronger motivator to the dog outside the behaviour. And if the dog has a bad habit of some sort (lets say killing chickens) then IMHO its not possible to fix it without corecting the dog for the wrong doing. Unless of course one can find a better reward then chickens

I thought of few other triggers that my dogs have - most are funny After 9/11 with the anti Arabs propaganda for a joke I would say to Rex (in Polish) - where are the Arabs? and he would run to the door and bark. Rex and Divani trigger on anything touched on the leash and collar rack Furia triggers on Divani running to the gate, she follows and barks before there is a need All trigger on the car booth door being opened, Divani the most. Rex triggers on the switch of the gas heater being put on, he immiediatelly goes and places himself in front of it. All trigger on the noisy minas making noise on the street when someone goes by.

The trigger isnt bad if I for ever want to wear that training vest . Im not sure if its allowable to wear in competions, and even if it is Id rather not in summer as its too hot for it. Plus I want my dog to trigger on a word not on a piece of clothing I have. I mean she does do the word and does it quite well but the sight of the vest or a ball is a better trigger for her atm.

Lucky its summer, I will avoid wearing extra clothing and hopefully she will forget about this particular piece of clothing! Also all my dogs trigger on the light switch that puts the light on outside. The moment I touch it they are all up from the deepest sleep and are ready to go out Not to mention the fride door being opened

I havent done the program either and my pup will trigger on many things, but the other day when I took the vest to put it in the washing machine she started jumping around and went into heel position without asking. I thought oh oh, we need to do something about this and quick! Mind you it was quite cute.

This in another thread made me think as to what triggers some dogs to go into drive. And I came to a conclusion that unintentionally I have taught my puppy to trigger on a training vest I wear when I train her. She of course triggers on the word, but the vest is something special by the looks of it, as the moment I pick it up she is all ready and excited. She goes into drive for most things, and is far from properly trained but me thinks I need to stop wearing that special vest that is sooooo usefull. What do your dogs trigger on?

IMHO rather then upping the rewards Id elimitate the food first, or the dog will start turning its nose on the cheese as well, in no time. Remove petting, remove play, let the dog miss it and want it. If that doesnt help then there is always a possiblity of training the dog with avoidance of correction. Not what I would ever want to do, but an option.

I would have taken them to the pound. I had a simmilar situation before, the guy got the point after he had to bail his dogs twice from the pound. It hurt the pocket a bit so he stopped letting them out.

:nahnah:

Id like to place an order for a reverse colour doberpoo, meaning tan with black markings. Im only interested in colour, dont care about working ability or show prospect. And I want it on main register so that I can start my own competing to yours PF Shonkbred prefix. I will be breedign ONLY for colour.

My puppy dobe - tail high up wagging, she often jumps up during training

I usually dont have the same people in class, or if I do I try to remember them and their problems. I always first ask what issues they have with the dogs and I try to address them. For those I know I ask for demos and give tips on how to improve further. If the people are keen and fun I usually play some kind of a game, something equivalent to musical chairs. Usually something that requires them to motivate dogs to do things fast. part of the class I spend on agility equipment, most love it. I end the class with giving them homework and they can ask me any questions they like. I get asked anything and everythings, sometimes about feeding, sometimes about my own dogs, sometimes they request that I show them stuff I do with my puppy etc.

Yes the Waratah one will. However there is no regular tracking schedule nor place set, so best to check with the club secretary direct.