~Anne~

Got a website link furfru?

I have no real experience with the heart failure side so i am sorry I can't offer anything there. I hope she is ok. With the tablets, you mentioned you couldn't break them into 4 sections. I have a dog with epilpesy and takes tablets twice a day for this. At various times we have had to alter his meds and have had to cut up tablets inot halves and quarters. I bought a pill cutter form the chemist for a few dollars and it works a treat. I have two now and one is better then the other but they are so cheap (about $4 from memory) you could afford to keep buying them until you found one suitable.

Will do, thanks!!!

Yes I could very well undertsand your stand from a breeders viewpoint. I phoned Monte's breeder some time ago to inform her that he was an epileptic (I adopted Monte through rescue and not via the breeder). She seemed quite surprised and said that she hadn't heard of any others from her lines with this condition. She then told me she had used him at stud several times so, I guess if it is hereditary, then there will be possibly be a few more epi Pugs out there. The thought that breeders would euthanase or 'cull' an epileptic bitch is horrible. What on earth for? Why not desex her and re-home her? I realise it isn't easy re-homing a dog with this condition but I am living proof that people will take on a dog with this condition and I know of many, many more who have done the same.

I would love that! Georgina Childs is Monte's Neuro.

From my knowledge it has never been concluded that epilepsy is an inherited disorder so perhaps you were going down the wrong track anyway. Apart from that though I do understand what you are saying... and I think I have read your thread where you finally solved the puzzle with your dogs. Well done on pursuing it through to a succesful conclusion. Glad to hear your guys are ok now.

Have you ever come across bias because of the drugs and their effects? I have recently been accused of being 'selfish and cruel' keeping my dog on medication to control his epilpesy and that I should have him euth'd. Mind you the moron who said it has no idea what, if any, side affects he has from his medication nor did she know anything about epilepsy anyway but it did get me to thinking about how people view this kind of thing.

KMat sells wooden gates for around $20 from memory. My guys learned that they could chew through wood though after a year of so and that was the end of it. The wooden ones are not 'opening' types either, they are static. Another idea for a static gate and this is what I use in one doorway is to buy a metal curtain rod from Bunnings (or any hardware) and spring loaded rod ends. We then cut the curtain rod to fit in the doorway (we got three pieces out of one long rod) and put the spring loaded bits on the end and simply pushed them into the opening. The dogs can't jump over it and we just step over it and the spring loaded bit means it stays put in the door way but is not a permanent fixture. The whole thing cost us about $16.

Syringe with needle to draw up the valium from the vial and then we switch the needle to a long tube piece (I have forgotten the actual name) it is what they use when inserting a catheter line - about 1 - 2 inches long, very fine and bendable plastic.

Clusters are all we have ever known with Monte. It is rare for him to only have one. We give valium as soon as we can when he starts. We were on oral valium but have now been given rectal on advice from the Neuro. Rectal works almsot immediately apparently and we don't need to ruch him anywhere. The oral way takes up to 20 minutes or more to take effect and by then he has usually had another 3 or 4. Lucky you were on the ball.

Yes, we have the same neuro but different Vets. I have found that most Vets do not have a lot of knowledge outside of the usual textbook knowledge of epilepsy. It appears to be more of a specialist kind of field. I know that I have thrown a few curlies to my Vets over the years and they have immediately researched it. If your Vet is willing to research a little and not just give stock answers then he is worth hanging onto in my books. Does KC have clusters normally? (Sorry if you ave already said this in the thread somewhere.... I'm feeling lazy). I am wondering why you gave the extra dose.

I have done this myself on the odd occassion. I usually give the full Pb dose and then give the full Kbr dose later. Pb is fairly safe to double up with (i.e. low risk of overdose) and so I can't see any problem with what you have said. I think your Vet may be off course a little saying it is bad to double the dose like you did. Monte's Neurologist said to do exactly that if I haven't any valium to stop his seizures. She explained that Pb has a low chance of overdose and even if he had just had his Pb only a few hours again, to give it again. If you were to do it regularly then I would say it could be dangerous becuase KC's levels wouldn't be maintained but a once off is fine IMO. What do you think staffy-lover?

Steroids?? What was the cause of her seizures?

I have switched from yearly to monthly just to be on the safe side.

I have actually spoken with many human epileptics about what they feel becuase I was concerned abou this as well. It appears the overwhelming majority of humans feel nothing during the seizure. Some feel 'odd' (and this varies with oddness) before the seizure and some feel hazy afterwards. Some also reported headaches after a seizure and a feeling of tiredness. PM Tim'sMum. Her daughter is an epileptic and she can also tell you how her daughter feels and what other human epis have said. Google it as well.

I am so sorry to hear your news. Giving a mate his wings is never easy. *hugs*

Thanks for the link.

I am not a vet nor qualified in veterinary (or any kind of medicine) science and these views are purely my personal views. Is the fluid in the abdominal cavity or actually in his stomach? If it is in the cavity then I would probably think draining would be best. Wouldn't septicemea be an issue of it is sitting for too long under the skin??? I recall once when a dog with heart disease came into our surgery on several occassions to be drained. He would blow up with fluid in his abdominal cavity. The Vet would simply stick the biggest gauge long needle in and syringe as much as he could out to relive the dogs discomfort. He was also put on diruetics and this eventually held the problem at bay until he died. Perhaps a second opinion from another Vet is warranted to ensure the treatment is correct?

The fear with a cluster is two fold. Firstly that the exertion on the body, including the heart, and the rising body temperature can be lethal. This degree of danger is also dependant on the cluster. Some dogs may cluster but each seizure in the cluster can be several hours apart so the dog's body has a chance to rest in between and this also gives time for their body temperature to fall. Others, like Monte, only have minutes in between each seizure. Monte averages 3 - 5 minutes between seizures in a cluster. The second fear is that the brain pathway becomes 'less cluttered' each time a cluster occurs and this pre-disposes the dog to eventually go into status. Status is obviously very deadly. Monte is showing signs of the easier pathway. Originally his clusters were up to 10 minutes apart and averaged about 3 - 4 seizures or so. Now he averages 5 seizures and they are 3 - 5 mintues apart.

He does have focals but these are usually very, very short in length of time, single and do not happen very often. He is a chronic grand mal clusterer. He always drools but, luckily for me, he has never urinated or defecated when he has a seizure. For the first time a recently he had a single grand mal. This surprised me as he always clusters and had never just had one before. My two are left in our yard when we ar enot there except for extreme weather. Our yard is small but is on two levels with 3 steps down to the lower level. They have 24 hours access to the garage via dog door but he has to walk up 3 steps to the door. I also am concerned about his blind phase but I have noticed when watching him that there is some kind of inbuilt radar that appears to stop him from hitting walls hard. He tends to only 'bump' lightly into them and then switch direction. A bit like those wind up cars that turn in another direction when they bump into an obstacle. He does however run around manic like and this also increases his body temperature. My biggest fear is that this will happen on a warm/hot day and I will come home to a scene that I would rather not think about or that he will go into status because no-one is there to adminsiter valium to stop the cluster. He is home often without humans for up to 8 - 9 hours.

Woohooo Harvey. That is great that he has remained seizure free and I bet a relief for you too.

Sorry, but do you mean that is might be the heat that is causing him to have seizures? It isn't the heat. He usually always has them in the ealry hours of the morning throughout the entire year, winter and summer. His cycles don't appear to be heat related. We thought at one stage they may be but this was ruled out about 18 months ago. He has been an epileptic for almost 4 years now.

Monte also broke. The troubling thing is that I don't know how many he had. We went out and were gone for around 2 hours. When I came back I noticed the tramp bed in the garage was pushed askew and this had pushed the little fence open. The fence being open wasn't a prob but I realised that something had happended. At first I thought maybe they had been playing and then I looked at Monte and he was panting (it wasn't overly hot) and he had drool stains with dirt stuck to it on the side of his face. I found a drool patch next to the bed as well. The boys can come and go into the garage through a dog door and they have a lounge and several diffierent beds in a sectioned off area in there and he obviously had at least one inside but I have no idea how many others. How does everyone else cope with their dogs being on their own?? This is the first time I have evidence that Monte has had at least one seizure when I am not home. What happens if he clusters badly while I am not there? Previous to this he has always had his seizures either at meal times, or more often, in the early hours of the morning.

I feed raw and sometimes Nature's Gift. I feed Nature's Gift kibble and find this ok too. I notice a huge difference in the stools when they are on Nature's Gift instead of raw and have to do TP twice as often when on it. My puss is fed raw with Advance or Optimum kibble.

We just had Montes results back in. His levels are perfectly in the middle for the Pheno and a little low for Bromide. But............ still no seizures or clusters and so we are leaving things as they are. Varicool - the increased appetite can be fun to deal with. Pugs already have an enormous appetite and with the meds, Monte thinks of nothing else but food. He now suffers from pica where he will eat everything and everything..... rocks, gumnuts, grass, bits of fluff....... he literally squeals for his dinner and breakfast!