Aidan3

Perhaps OP should give herself a couple of days off thinking about it, then see how she feels about some of the practical suggestions made here? This is obviously quite an emotional issue for the OP and repeating ourselves won't solve anything.

I use a Springer, great tool. I remember once it started raining heavily, we were coming down a hill, and a cat suddenly appeared and dashed across our path. My high-drive GSD went to take off after the cat and nothing happened. We just kept riding. Granted, I'm not light, but it just goes to show the benefits of putting the link between dog and bike down low and under the rider (using a properly designed tool with a safety release). Especially on a bike, where all your normal rules for walking on a leash can be changed because it is such a different picture for the dog. I don't use directional cues, I just use one cue "this way" which means "pay attention, I'm turning". You also need to teach the dog not to stop for any reason, unless the bike is also stopping. I like to provide a toilet break shortly after we begin, once peristalsis has got things moving. Check pads often, too. *edited because I didn't want anyone to think it would be a good idea to tie a leash to the seat post!

I'm just curious about why behaviourists are seens as "overkill"? I would hope that most would provide excellent value for money and result in an excellent outcome for everyone, including your dog. As I understand it, people you know have sought out the expertise of a behaviourist from time to time.

My opinion, FWIW, is that for a clicker to convey an advantage over a verbal bridge the handler must develop a level of mechanical skill - which is certainly not difficult but requires instruction and a lot of practise. I don't expect it to be any better than a verbal bridge for people starting out in my classes, although it usually ends up being better fairly soon and precision is quite important in what I do. It's a bit like playing sport, you need the ball in your hands a lot. Any spare chance you have to throw, catch, kick, hit or whatever you need to do most in your chosen sport should be spent doing that. So, although I almost never use a clicker with my own dogs, I like clients to get the clicker in their hand and pay attention to what they are doing at every chance they get - even though probably 85% of what they do could be done without the clicker. It builds the skill pretty quickly and they don't fumble or mis-click or click the wrong thing. This is important because if we're going to increase the criteria efficiently, they need to be able to click at the right moment. I don't doubt Lindsay in his hypothesis because he is a responsible authority who doesn't just spout nonsense without evidence; whatever the reason, clickers are just more noticeable or more meaningful. That's not to say that they are magical, just about anything with similar acoustic properties works just as well, but there is something about those acoustic properties that cuts through and gets the job done. I suppose you could say there were parallels with e-collars vs check chains. Some people have exemplary timing with a check chain but they will never be as good as they could be with an e-collar. The check chain is just too "analogue".

I'd be looking at why the trainer was so confused about when to reward and when not to in this case.

Not dog related, but I went on a summer bush-walk one time and ran out of water, thinking there would be a creek much earlier in the journey. I did eventually come across a creek, but by then I was so thirsty I just dropped to my knees and started gorging myself on the sweetest, most welcome water ever. When I finally emerged for air I looked up and about 2' upstream from where I was drinking there was a festering, bloated possum carcass semi-submerged and wedged behind a rock. I was fine so the story isn't really that exciting. Amazing what you can get away with drinking.

There's a dosage "window" where it can be effective, beyond that point (which is pretty high) it becomes ineffective (according to some of the research I have seen). So, very unlikely any physical harm, but it may lose effect. Assuming no allergies, of course.

Artificial selection is certainly not without it's responsibilities.

Socratic approach (ask questions) geared towards a really simple and obvious answer that they arrive at themselves. e.g "How much does your dog like food? More or less than tennis balls?"

If the dog's normal response would be aggression in that same situation, then I will reward the hell out of "just standing there" because that's exactly what I want them to do. We do a lot of that because it works, but it's well planned with appropriate criteria that advances as the dog learns. It's a very active process but to anyone who came across my class without knowing the dogs were aggressive, they would think we were mad and just rewarding the dogs for "doing nothing" or "hanging out".

Black Samoyed: Apparently there were black Samoyeds in Tassie not so long ago, but I haven't found out whether they were registered or not (or able to be). A bloke I work with has a "Black Samoyed x Border Collie" and so did my previous neighbours.

My GSD has been washed twice in 8.5 years and looks and smells clean. My Golden is a mud-seeker, so he gets hosed down every now and then, shampoo if it's really bad. Sometimes he gets a bit on the nose, so we use a medicated shampoo regularly for a while until he's back to normal.

My wife informs me that I began laying the vinyl tiles in the kitchen 12 months ago. I've built boats faster than that! But they are almost perfect for the dogs, the really good ones are tough as nail, non-slip, warm underfoot and the pattern looks a bit like paw prints. Grime sticks in the "grout" (actually vinyl strips) a bit, we're getting a steam mop to see if that solves the problem.

I dare say this sort of thing could be contributing to the problem. Nekhbet would be better placed to offer advice on how to correct appropriately, but it would need to timed well (earlier rather than later), sufficient to knock her out of drive, and you would want to see an immediate reduction in future unwanted behaviour. Restraint will usually not achieve this, and growling can be misunderstood. I would suggest "Control Unleashed" as a good program (but Click to Calm is well worth the read). The "Look at That" game (from CU), done properly, can be extremely effective in this sort of situation. A clicker is essential, you need precision but most people pick it up pretty quickly.

Tracking is good for dogs who aren't 100% around other dogs, or herding. Both are fairly time consuming though. Treibball is brilliant for active herding breeds, I started a thread here some time back.

A breeder I know out in the bush keeps Guinea-fowl, but they are noisy.

I'd be really hesitant to make a recommendation, if you're happy with what the trainer is doing then he's in the best position to advise you. Just be aware of treating the effect and not the cause. It's relatively easy to stop outward displays of aggression in specific situations, but unless you have addressed the cause of the aggression you're likely to be up for a suprise at some point. If you're confident that this dog is learning to cope and relax, rather than just learning to "shut up", then you're on the right track. A class is usually not the right environment for this in the early stages, but not all dogs are overwhelmed by them.

Thanks for the kind words Re: the above, it's something to treat with caution and I'm glad you've given it some thought. At the end of the day we don't want to make anything worse, it seems obvious but that is our primary objective, not to do any harm. Dogs are remarkable problem solvers, so if we block off one avenue for easing their tension (ritualised or actual aggression) then they will find another way. Much better to solve the problem for them if we can, and IMHO that involves facilitating a win-win for everyone. Good professional help can be invaluable here, but the basic idea is to reinforce the behaviours we want and that satisfy everyone in terms of safety, position, order and clear expectations. Basic "manners" training can go a long way, not giving in when dogs demand attention, being able to cue dogs to go to mats or crates, having them go to places and politely waiting for dinner, strong recalls, door manners etc

Some interesting reading, cites another study supportive of the anecdotal reports in this thread: http://www.animalsandsociety.org/assets/li...04jaws07048.pdf

Oh yes, I'm not arguing against dominance being a factor, just their treatment of dominance (primarily relating it to sex, size, assuming that males fight more seriously etc). I didn't ever own the book, just borrowed it from the library a few times (a long time ago too), but my recollection was that they gathered quite a lot of empirical data on socialisation, imprinting, fear periods etc but I couldn't recall anything specifically on this topic. I knew there would be something in the literature and I found it - Sherman et al (1996) reported that entire male dogs were more likely to fight, but of dogs in the same household, females were likely to fight more seriously.

Hahaha, that's almost cheeky! I can get that one from my local library, certainly a very good reference if not quite outdated in places. I'd say that was more a reflection of the way dominance was thought about at the time, rather than a reflection of what dogs actually do. Do they offer any empirical data to support that view? For that matter, does anyone have any empirical data to support the common view in this thread? I must admit that I don't.

I'm not sure if you've been in this position, Tapferhund, but there are all sorts of reasons why people put their dogs in this position and I don't think it's at all unreasonable to make a mistake. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If you read the original post, subzero did make changes by feeding the dogs separately. Turns out it wasn't enough in this case, which is a shame.

I'm not Crisovar, but I actually felt some relief when I decided to separate my dogs and made appropriate arrangements to do so. My dogs are much happier, no tension, no wasted energy trying to avoid trouble. Now when they are together they get along very well because they are only ever together when they are doing something I have conditioned them to do together. Dietary changes have also helped. Well worth seeing someone who can offer practical advice tailored to a particular situation.

Black Dog do a light tracking leash which is much safer to handle for both you and your dog. Length is 11m so it will serve you well for a while.

Good question. A strong enough punishment can have a very powerful suppressive effect on a behaviour. There are several problems here though, you may have stopped the dog biting you in one situation, but what about other situations? (Conversely, it may knock out a bunch of behaviours you do want) Also, how long will this effect last? How can you responsibly demonstrate that the dog is safe? I would want to know that the dog was going to an appropriate home.