Angeluca

In qld it is the same, property owners have the right to protect their property. Don't even need to keep the evidence. Got a lady round the road who has had her son shoot dogs cause they killed her prize chickens. Only problem no proof there was even chooks on her property recently. she had my two once, but i drove onto the property and took them back while she was at work. I told the police i did it he said I was retrieving my property and nothing would come of it. Regardless I have goldies and looking at them running through the back paddock they could easily be mistaken for dingos which i know are in the area cause i almost stood on one. Cute story lol! i was checking the perimeter cause i was bringing a stallion onto the property and i was walking back up a deer trial and he was curled up in the tiniest ball he looked up when a stood on a stick yawned and looked over his shoulder, then i'm preety sure the poor thing had a heart attack, he jumped yelped and ran off so fast. Point is i know my dogs won't attack chooks but with 3 2000+ acre properties in a 10k radius it is not worth the risk.

I don't show dogs so I don't know much about the process, for example how many dogs are in the BOB ring. I assume with so many entries it there is at least a cut down process so that there is only a few stage winners at the BOB ring. Maybe so an outcome did eventuate for the breed, that all the dogs in the BOB ring get the Vet exam. This will Make more of an example if more dogs are eliminated But still Show the public that there is examples of the breed. So the Breed and breeders of the breed as a whole don't bad public rep as everything is media influenced. I'd say in time they will find a process which will cause less backlash. That hopefully does improve the over all health of dogs bred and more breeds included in the process. As for this being unfair to the breeders involved, it isn't fair that health wise unsatisfactory dogs are winning, nor as it isn't fair that some Judges favor certain dogs due to Kennel friendship, possibly to gain if that owner is themselves a judge or own a dog related to the dog in the show. Or there is the plain Bribery. Most won't admit it but this sort of match fixing so to speak DOES exist within the show element. I hope it isn't at these really big important shows, But i know of quite a few dogs whom have their CH, title due to show and judge selection. Having said that There are some Judges who don't know the standard of the breed they judge, so therefore get avoided. You could never really know. Which is why I take little comfort on owning a dog from parents whom have titles. Whos to say it is legit. I personally focus on temperament of the dogs within the kennel I usually asked to see as many dogs they own as possible most have been happy to show me around and proud of what they have. Obedience titles as it shows intelligence and training ability and of course the best way to sell a pup in my opinion is be an open and honest friendly Breeder who has a genuine love for the dogs they own. You can see the relationship between breeder and dog regardless of breed when you see the breeder interact with the dogs.

Yeah it was the vet was arrogant and ignored my continuing statements about wanting to breed and compete. My boys temperament is to die for and a couple of breeders and said he could be shown but his color would hold him back and real golden isn't favored right now and his has a massive hate for standing set accordingly he prefers to sit on people feet, so showing would be a massive trial for him, he'd hate it and it would take along time to even get close to a title. once hips and elbows done theres only one more real test for him is eyes and heart then we'll have the go ahead from the breeder to breed him if we wish.

I had a vet (a hip specialist) tell me that he wanted me to Fuse my golden retriever pups hips at 8 mths old to prevent H/D This was after I told him I intended on Becoming a breeder and was hoping with all the correct test done at the correct time and pending temperament issues/ conformation that I intend on breeding this pup. (obviously years in the making). He was familiar with the breed. I entertained the idea for a few moments and asked him why he thought my pup needed it since he is a well bred dog from a good breeder with a very good history and isn't showing any problems. answer: cause it's common in the breed. I then asked ok i intend on doing agility will this impact on that? answer: shouldn't do I then asked how would i get his hips and elbows xrayed to get an accurate reading as required before your actually allowed to breed if i was to do this op ? answer: you wouldn't be able to get a reading because the op fuses the hip at an angle holding the socket in which prevents the natural growth possibly turning out. last question is it 100 percent guaranteed to prevent H/D and how much does it cost ? answer: no it is basically just to prevent young onset of H/D but has on occasion has help in elderly dogs but the op has to be done at 6-8mths but doesn't prevent all cases. And cost Around $1800-$2000 which is cheaper then H/D. It seems lots of vets are doing unnecessary surgery on young animals as a possible preventative. Of course my answer is no and my boy goes for his hips and elbows next week

I never expected to see such a controversial statement on this board. However, you express my views perfectly. I too Found this statement delightful. No i don't agree, anyone should breed for a couple of bucks in the back yard without being able to pay for a vet but i don't think that is what this statement was about. For example i have heard so much about aggressive, socially ignorant goldies met one myself, this dog was a regular competitor and went to reg meets, but down right refused to be touched or approached by other dogs. this is not thier standard behavior but i was told it is not uncommon these days. Nor is white goldies (even with their imaginary yellow strand of fur) bring back temperament, original color diversity and whatever else is getting lost in the betterment of the breed. This is not a stab at breeders, just think some are getting carried away with other ideals of the dog.

me too, your dog, your rules. I agree, your dog your rules. Some people can be rude, over the top and annoying when they want to pat a puppy - Many people need to understand that the puppy is yours and not theirs, and you did not bring it out for them to pat or play with. I also agree I think it's extremely spoilt and bratty to hurl abuse at someone because they wont let you 'play with their toy' so to speak. Do you go up to someones motorbike in the street and sit on it because you like it? Or jump inside someones convertable just because you admire it and think it's wonderful? Why is this any different? Though, I have seen idiots doing these types of things. It makes me wonder where peoples manners have gone? If it's not yours to touch, and if you really want to, then ask. No harm in asking permission or even talking to the owner about the dog too. Was thinking the same thing My daughter has the bluest eyes and when she was 2 I had people come up and grab her face to see her eyes or think that they can cuddle her. Why when almost everyone on here refers to thier pets as Furbabies (as do i at times) would allow randoms to grab and touch and pull. If someone protested when i pulled my daughter away or continued to touch her, I could have reported them for harassment and so forth. And I would Never let my kids Touch a dog without OWNER permission. Sometimes Just to prove to my kids that they can't pat every dog refused to allow them to ask and just walk away. (my kids are dog of any size crazy, with my son the bigger the better)

Crazy daisy I love your color comparison with the Samoyed and irish setter on either side of the goldens. It amazes me that white is a fault yet they are champions cause thier owner can find a couple of creamy gold hairs on them And thanks Juiced we think he is beautiful too.

Crazy daisy I love your color comparison with the Samoyed and irish setter on either side of the goldens. It amazes me that white is a fault yet they are champions cause thier owner can find a couple of creamy gold hairs on them

I got one :D lol creams to the point of almost white were until very recently were the fave in goldies, My youngest has the stanroph lines in her father's side making her very pale, which as she grows seems to getting offset by her mothers favored colored gold lines I prefer mid gold but I love my boys coloring everyone who knows I maybe breeding from my boy and may like a pup in the future want one like his color.

My goldies have various play together from zoomies and chase to tackle and body slams. But my boy is the funniest as soon as he sees a person visitor he barrels round the yard tryin to find a squeaky toy, when he finds one it is full on growls mean while his ears are laid back submissive and has en entire body wag going rubbing the toy on the visitors legs and walkin into them and in front to stop them from getting away. Has visitors in stitches.

I go once a week rotating which pup I take weekly, it's a half hour drive each way, half hour lesson but I'm usually there early and sometimes stay socializing with the other doggy people for an hour or more.

I got a 3 1/2 yr girl and a 13mth boy and a 6 mths girl they are all fantastic together, the boy went to obedience classes not just puppy school and the younger girl I taught at home. The older girl I never did any formal training she just never does anything wrong. the only prob i have is both pups come to the commands and are only just learning to listen to individual commands when training together. from this experience i would have to the same age together. As it is mainly in the one on one training. No aggression whatso ever. But they are goldies. I might just add it also matters on pups temperament, easy going laid back pups would be best for a planned multi dog family. You really don't want to bring home the most dominate pup or the most impolite pup out of a litter to an already existing dog/pups home.

this was my thinking, but of course there's those out there who can't help but to scam, So I suppose that's when scrutiny and selection will have to come in. As health is our argument and suppose to separate us from bb, as there are many BB who care for there dogs. If people still have a lottery when it comes to a pup then they are going to think spending that few hundred less would have been best. 90% of the people i know won't buy a pedigree pup. There are to many horror stories (the few that get hyped up like mad or the ones they hear on TV) associated with pedigrees that 60% of that group say it is because of the health problems. The others fall into 2 main groups of won't pay more then $200 for a dog (most of which get dumped or run away) some of the time this is a rescue or pound dog or will get one of those giveaway/ cheap pups off a notice board the others like the SWFs which are mostly crosses that can cost almost as much a the same as a pedigree of one of the breeds. The only up side is none of the people I know and who I've ask for curiosity, will go to a petshop it's a little hope.

To the OP, I have to thank you for sharing this experience and opening the thread it has been an eye opener as is for what is to come and getting a few opinions on lingering questions. I really feel for you, as it is truly an awful set back to your program and a heartbreaking decision to let her go. And hope everything goes well and you find the perfect home for her to ease the pain a little. Goodluck.

+1

Firstly all dogs have genetic faults of some sort. There is no such thing as a perfect dog despite the fact that show/performance breeders are all trying to breed them. In any given litter there will hopefully be at least one or two that are close to perfect but the others will all have genetic faults that are more or less obvious. Breeders have a responsibility to avoid breeding any health defects that can be determined by testing of the parents. So anything inherited as a simple recessive condition, has a DNA test available and requires both parents to be carriers, is easly controlled by genetic testing. These tests are available for a small percentage of the possible health defects in dogs and have been developed by the dedication of breeders to finding answers. Other conditions have screening tests for the parents to assess the phenotype of the parents so informed breeding choices can be made to reduce the incidence of these problems. No one can guarantee that they can always produce puppies free from the problem if there is no definitive genetic test available. Congential conditons that may or may not be genetic can be checked for in some puppies in some breeds. Heart, spine, eye and in some breeds ED comes under this category. Depending on the condition and results the puppy may be placed with full disclosure or pts. Again breeds would prefer to never breed these problems but cannot always avoid them. Somewhere breeders have to draw the line at what they will be responsible for. If they breed a puppy with a fatal congenital condition, I believe they should refund the purchase price. For non-fatal conditions it is up the discretion of the breeder. Some things like HD have a very large environmental component with diet and exercise figuring in the final result and breeders cannot control how the puppies they sell are raised. Other conditions can be congenitial or aquired later and sometimes it is difficult to determine which. The average vet is not an expert on inherited genetic conditions and often get the diagnosis wrong, so a vet declaring something to be a hereditary problem cannot be taken as fact. Much more research is usually needed before that sort of claim can be made but a lot of vets like to blame breeders for everything. Most show breeders are very concerned about the babies they produce and if they honestly believe they have inadvertantly sold a puppy with an existing serious health defect, they will replace or refund. Some will do the same if an aquired problem happens as the puppy develops but it all depends on the defect, how hard they have worked to avoid it and if there is any chance that environment could have influenced the condition. Thanks for your reply, And to clarify the genetic defect would obviously have to be a reasonable serious health defect to warrant shared costs or replacement, and with things like hd and ed ect environment is a serious factor making it almost impossible to see how much is at breeding fault. And this subject has me sweating my pants off (excuse the phrase) from the moment my first litter hits the ground. The fact that vets are seriously under-skilled in many cases worries me too. My vet told me my boy tore his crucial ligament in his right knee at 3 mths old also saying his other was on the way out. My breeder was in full support asked me to get a second specialist appoint. I did and specialist told me it was only bruised and only needed anti-inflammation med as GR have flexible knee joints to begin with. 2 days he was normal. But the specialist also asked me to fuse his hips to prevent HD. A procedure that can only be done at 18-22 weeks of age. I didn't because I want him to compete and hopefully breed from, if I fused his hips I would never have a score to know if i could have bred from him. He is getting his hips scored in the next 2 mths to hopefully find out that I did the right thing. I can only imagine what joe smith make of this when being told all these things from qualified people, who I am sure are both wrong the vets on his knee and the specialist on his hips. And yes both blamed the breeder for the um "problem". Knowing this I understand it is not black and white when it comes to health. I suppose what I really wanna know is where do you say yes I sold you a health effected dog that is my problem, to No the puppy when It left this house was in perfect 'foreseeable' health and that it is not my responsibility.?

Aww so cute how do you put pics into the post like that it doen't let me copy and paste

I was under the impression that when it came to genetic faults, the breeder of pedigrees pet or show was at least half liable for costs or replacement at breeders discretion. That at worst case they ask for documented proof of a vet stating it was genetic. And the whole point why we are trying to get the general public to buy from us, is that everything possible has been done to provide them with a genetically sound dog whether it be pet or show. A number of breeders I've dealt with is the past have shown this to be the case and when I start my kennel, I had every intention on following that path. Isn't it part being an ethical breeder to do so. I had a friend the other day state that this is exactly why they refuse to buy pedigree papered dogs, so much money spent on a dog for when it goes wrong and it is the breeding at fault the breeder wants nothing to do with you. Please correct me if I am wrong, As I will continue to provide this when I start but lower my expectations of fellow breeders.

I just remembered the old pound puppies cartoon, tho i was so young I can barely remember the cartoon but I do remember having one or two pound puppy plush toys, think they were like basset hound toys lol.

Couldn't agree more.

k I have so meny most of which have already been named eg. K9 +k911, Turner and hooch, Balto, White fang (found my love for wolves in this movie), Homeward bound, Lassie series,Kelly series, rin tin tin, Bengi series ect. but I just wanna throw out some who haven't been mentioned either not seen or Forgotten Advetures of yellow dog cats and dogs - funny shilo - about a beagle, heartwarming Lethal weapon Mans Best friend - not meny wound have seen this one But is one of the best ever IMO, Ignited my love for Bernese Mountain dogs it never says in the movie what he was but when i was little and saw it i research high and low to find out and it was what i came up with with research as a 10 yr old. It's a thriller and has graphic scenes that some not be able to stomach but this clip is not so bad . And one other not well known is one called Fluke what i believe is a Beautiful Irish setter. I know there is more Ive forgotten lol.

I have the highest repect for those who put the time into those dogs, And most of all their breeding, I believe personally sheps are becoming so rounded on their back' you look at old army photos, those dogs dog have their hips half off the ground unless there are in the stance, dogs these days just always curve. and they are for the most part daintier. JUST MY OPINION But give me a well proportioned shep that actually has some power in his back legs.

Was this a one off arrangement or will you consider raising and training another military puppy? Or was the goodbye too much?

I don't believe poultry is good just from what I've seen, My friend who lives a street over (Aproxx a kilometer away) Has chooks, guinea foul and ducks and she is constantly calling me to come help pull large pythons out and kills King browns, red bellies inside of her chook pen eating eggs and the birds, she also has a large rat problem even tho they clean the chook pen out once or twice a week. She also has foxes and goannas constantly. I won't use traps, baits or snake nets as we have small wallabies, dingos and goannas in the area, and being fond of snakes If I ever had a snake within the house yard, I or a professional would relocate it. Altho I have seen snakes on the road less then a k away I've never had one in the house yard as the yard and surrounding paddock is kept very short, and the mice well don't last long. We haven't many lizards around but have a ton of green tree frogs that the cat doesn't bother with either. And of course he is well fed. I did have a cat once who was a bird killer a years. He killed a peewee once and I saw him stalking some honey eaters, but I re-homed him with a friend who had him as a inside only cat until he died of cancer a year or two later.

Yeah I get that he is well a cat I just never had a cat the killed for fun laziness like my other 3 plays more a part in their lives. 1 of my cats tiger, always been an outside cat is now 16 yrs on the 7th of dec, he always caught snakes (red bellies) but never really anything else i used to leave him unattended with my cockateil babies that were uncaged for training, they used to attack him so he hated the sight of birds. tucker the cat in question is a very efficient mouse catcher as well we had a mouse problem that even he couldn't curb after the QLD floods, so i got a kitten to help him who is not ready for outside yet. to many eagles about. I know why you should have them indoors or penned. But out on my farm I have them for mouse rat problems and therefore have to be able to do that. I have native trees for native birds and never seen a feather shed, I know i risk it but with small children and dogs cats are the best snake prevention with taking away the food source. Thanks for your responses I was only concerned with his 'fun in it' factor. I will keep taking his prizes off him before the dogs get them and make sure it isn't anything more then a pest (rabbit or mouse). If it escalates to wanted wildlife I'll pen him.