Kavik

Finally getting some good solutions to our barking problem (caused by confusion) Confusion of when to be in RZ, when to stay, and when to leave RZ. So I did each component separately - RZ on cue and only reward when it is cued. Then RZ and take a step and cue RZ. Work on my sending separately. Work on Crate Games. I have now added RZ to Crate Games, so can release from crate, cue RZ, turn around, he sits, I reward, wait for FF and then give his "Box" crate cue. LOL don't know if any of that made sense to anybody else :laugh:

Sheepdogs are not supposed to mouth the sheep, they get in trouble for that! Biting is only permitted if the sheep are being particularly difficult and won't move. My older Kelpie (working bred Kelpie, WKC registered from well known stud) showed no inclination to bite the sheep the times I have done herding. He got excited, sure, and wanted them to move so he had something to do lol, and barked at them when they didn't move, but at no time did he even look like biting them. Some dogs do tend to bite the sheep, and it can be due to frustration in that case too, but it is certainly not desirable and they will do their best to get it out of them. Working stock with dogs should be about less stressful ways of managing and moving the stock, which certainly means no biting unless necessary (if cattle are standing up to and charging the dog)

Closing the crate door (or closing your fist around the food so they can't get it in IYC) is simply letting the dog know that that action will not get the reinforcement they want. Controlling the environment not the dog. There is certainly nothing in 'finger in the throat' that allows the dog to make choices.

Because finger in the throat is physically punishing her body with yours?

Oh dear! Gees they are funny!

IYC Here is some recent video of our contact training

Yes I agree dogs need to work through frustration - we do lots of shaping to address that :) I do have to make sure my criteria is clear and that I don't bump it up too quickly :)

Nitro has overarousal and frustration issues. If he is unsure (or frustrated because he is unsure) he barks. He used to bite but has stopped doing that now (thank goodness!). I LOVE self control games such as Its Yer Choice and Crate Games! While I was initially unsure about them, they really are AWESOME for developing impulse control and I am a big fan now! We spend lots of time on those :laugh: I also have to break down exercises into very small increments and not progress too quickly, and be clear and decisive in cues, and whether or not I am rewarding. It is teaching me to plan my training sessions very well :laugh:

...nothing else worked - this worked, and yes, it doesn't feel nice for her (that's why she led immediately go and now nibbles only very rarely during high arousal), but believe me, it hurts me more than her as she has very sharp teeth :) ETA:...I don't think she is frustrated...she is just overexcited and her instincts come through... What else did you try?

There are certainly times when you need to get them into the less obvious tunnel entry, or to go past an obstacle in their path. So I would make sure your cues for those are clear and well understood, that is where confusion crept in with Kaos (not up to that yet with Nitro). Which is different depending on your handling system Derrett would be your off (threadle) arm/false turn H360/Shape Up (not sure about other euro handling but some would probably be similar) would be threadle for less obvious tunnel and flappy tappy/wit wit wit, side tap (whatever you want to call it :laugh: ) for going past obstacles

I agree with TSD. Nitro has a tendency to stop, stand there and bark at me if he is unsure of what he is supposed to be doing or is frustrated. Maybe some more time working on understanding of your cues separately would help. Like one jump work to work on your cues for turning, backsides, go straight, serps, threadles etc.

My son was seeking out and choosing to read books on his own at the end of Kindergarten. As Stressmagnet said, I'm sure his reading was better than his comprehension. He was certainly starting to read over my shoulder when I type on the computer!

I don't breed or ever plan on breeding, but I choose to purchase dogs from breeders who breed their dogs and work their dogs in their original roles. For me, the traits that make them good sheepdogs should also carry over into making them good dogs for sport. I have only done a little bit of herding, not easy for me to access and I only have so much time. Some traits do work against me in agility. Sensitivity to handler pressure/liking distance from the handler has led to running around jumps at times (have seen it in many Kelpies, not just mine), not liking to come in close, and I have to be careful not to crowd with eg weave entries.

I've found my forum and FB experiences much less relaxing once my oldest son learned to read and was reading over my shoulder :laugh: which was probably around the end of Kindergarten. My youngest starts school next year, soon nothing will be safe!

I see about 1 snake a year in my backyard. When I worked for WIRES in the summer there were so many calls about snakes.

The GSD jumped about 6 ft in the air when it was shocked!

Are we using electric collars around the necks of horses and cattle to train them now, the same as ecollars for dogs? I don't think we are? They learn that the fence 'bites'. How strange would it seem to the dog that it gets 'bitten' and can't see any cause, and with an ecollar this bite will last as long as the button is being pressed.

Distance is your friend with all reactivity :)

I go to Asquith vet and have been happy with them :)

Avenpart Ontario ADM JDM JDO GD SD (Kaos) We had a great year this year, achieving our ADM and JDO titles and many placings in JDM and ADM, he has been such a good boy :) As he is now 9 1/2 years old I've decided to retire Kaos from competition at the end of this season :) so no more competition goals for him. He is now helping my daughter learn about dog training :) Coogee Nitro (Nitro) Actually make it into the agility ring and enter JD :laugh:

The one time I did try an ecolllar (at K9Pro seminar), Diesel shut down completely and wanted to hide in the nearest crate . He has skin conditions and so sensitive skin and particularly hates flies (wouldn't work at all if he gets bothered by them), and my guess is that the ecollar seemed like fly bites to him. I can guarantee that food rewards won't make him react like that.

I'm not saying that in every training situation an ecollar could be used to get the same results faster. And by saying I want results fast, I also don't mean everything should happen overnight. Training competition level heel work for example takes a long time and has to be broken into many stages to get it really great. But with any training I am doing I want to see the dog progressing and understanding within a reasonable amount of time, otherwise how would you know it's working? I agree, if you aren't progressing you need to reassess what you are doing

I also think some things do take time to achieve good understanding, and spending more time on that at the beginning will mean less confusion later on and less failure in the end in a trial environment. I don't think an ecollar would speed up the process.

I personally don't think an ecollar would benefit the type of training I do with my dogs, but each to their own :)

Just heard about a dog who was PTS, due to behaviour caused by misuse of an ecollar during supervised training with an instructor