Cosmolo

First things first- Choose one consistent surface for the dogs- grass OR training mats, not both. Do you have a yard, courtyard or secure balcony? How long are you away from them during the day? Where do they sleep over night? What other training are you doing with them? I have never heard of that particular breed mix before and to be honest i think it is going to be very challenging- particularly having two at once. Are you in an apartment? Your training is vital as both breeds in the mix are vocal ones so you need to get on top of some socialisation and basic obedience as soon as possible.

If you are looking for training in that area, we have training arund the corner at Clayton South Primary School.

Bump

I know a lead guarding dog too- also guards anything belonging to the owner.. bags, clothes- everything!

Not just the temperament of the dogs, but the temperament of the owner too. Some people aren't cut out to have multi dog households or to identify and quash any potential issues so prevention, excellent and sensible management is the best option here.

I don't believe it causes resource guarding to feed dogs separately. Personally though, with my own dogs i prefer to teach no need to guard at all so i can feed, treat etc all together.

I think alot depends on the dogs AND the owners general leadership ability. What i do below is not what i would recommend to all my clients. I have 5 dogs and they all eat together- treats, dry food and bones. They are supervised indirectly- i may watch from inside or the next room just to ensure the 2 cattle dog x's don't eat the big guys food that he leaves- as he can be fussy and will walk off from dry food. No one is allowed to steal from each other and i will step in if anyone tries- not that the older guys do but the new puppy thinks it might be worth a shot. :D One of the dogs used to have mild resource guarding behaviour with the other dogs but since ensuring no one tries to steal from her, she is much more relaxed and i haven't seen any guarding behaviour for probably 3 years, even when the others walk close to her or eat their own food close to her.

I agree with you Jeanne- a qualification doesn't instantly make a trainer great- nor does it instantly make a trainer incompetent!

Regardless of qualification- if a trainer feels they are not experienced enough with working breeds, or their insurance does not cover some bull breeds etc- wouldn't you prefer that these people sent potential clients away to someone with more expertise in these areas? Jeanne this definitely does happen in Victoria- i don't know about NSW. W can't have it both ways- everyone wants the very best and most experienced trainers- fair enough. But how do you propose trainers get experience if its not first through dealing with easier cases and problems and easier dogs? Some trainers will never have the ability OR inclination to deal with certain dogs- that is their choice. Its like a tradesmen choosing the easier job to complete when they have a choice. My ONLY issue is when these places do not refer on and leave owners thinking that certain breeds or dogs with certain drives cannot be trained.

I think you need to contact a behaviourist to help you and separate when feeding in the meantime. If you are in Perth, i would suggest Kathy Koppellis McLeod to assist you.

Yes i have heard euthanasia recommendations too- from Delta and one non delta trainers- a couple of which happened over the phone, before the trainer had seen the dog..

I think its unfortunate that, in any field, a whole group is tarnished by the actions of a few. However, i get the feeling that some of the issues with Delta are not through the instructors themselves, but rather a reflection on the course covering only certain techniques AND/OR dismissing others in a negative way. I would actually like to do the Delta course but one the thing that concerns me is that i don't believe i would be on their list of trainers afterwards if i chose to train with a combo of aversives/ positive methods. I think S+T makes a great point re: the distance learning though- i think courses through DL are more difficult in terms of controlling what is produced by students at the end of the course- regardless of what course that may be. Previous experience is EVEN more important when doing a DL course IMO. A great trainer is a great trainer regardless of what qualifications they have or have not completed A bad trainer is a bad trainer regardless of what qualifications thay have or have not completed. All trainers would do well to keep an open mind- learn about the things you may not agree with, you never know what a different perspective can provide to you. You don't know what you don't know. ;) We also need to be careful with regards to labelling trainers based on information given by someone else- i am seriously amazed at how incorrectly something can be interpreted or represented to someone else. I have had occasion where a client has interpreted something as XYZ when i meant it as ABC and times where chinese whispers takes effect too! Don't believe everything someone tells you- its not that people always overtly lie, but interpretation can have a significant influence.

Bump

I wish my boy had sound joints- i would love to see if he has what it would take.

I agree- although, i have many owners who also have good timing and can deliver a correction to their dogs when needed. No one training method suits every dog and/ or owner. If we spent less time trying to put techniques into boxes of 'good' and 'bad' and more time tailoring techniques to individuals, dog training would be a whole lot better!

Aidan

Definitely not shutting down- we would have had to increase the distance to the point where she was not aware of the stimulus to not get the panic response initially- which would not have achieved anything at all. The panic bolting was not stress reducing for Georgie- it was stress increasing. The further along the behaviour sequence she went, the more stressed she became. I am not saying its suitable for every dog- merely giving an example as asked. Georgie is a much more confident, much more relaxed dog than she was before and this has been achieved through a combo of corrections and positive reinforcement. Her previous owner had tried positive reinforcement only for the previous 3 months- with no improvement, hence her return to the shelter. There is no mistaking what she does now- vastly different and i would love to have before and after videos but unfortunately don't. There are still situations that would trigger the same behaviour but daily situations no longer do. Dog one was given a collar correction but again- this would vary from dog to dog as we have had a number of dogs who would have a similar problem ETA Agree Aidan- prediction and control are very important.

I have seen many many examples where an appropriate correction has reduced stress in a dog- i'll see if i can succinctly provide a few very different ones. Dog One- has been inconsistently rewarded for jumping up. Extinction training has been attempted with the owner falling short before the behaviour has ceased. This now means the dogs behaviour continues for a much longer period of time with the stress level of the dog rising as a result. There is no opportunity to reward the dog at this point as the dog jumps at any given opportunity. Correction is given that stops the jumping AND the subsequent rising stress levels ( stress levels rising as the dog reaches the extinction burst etc) Dog stops jumping in 2 minutes rather than 20 and is then heavily rewarded. In this case, its not that the extinction training would not have worked- because it would have if done correctly at this point. But that process is more stressful to the dog in this situation than providing a correction at the earliest possible time and thus providing a reward opportunity earlier. I understand many people have experienced corrections given in anger- please don't asume though that all those who use corrections do this. Since becoming a trainer, i have never given a correction in anger and any client seen to be doing so is addressed (such as the gentleman who came to a class once with a rolled up newspaper ready and waiting ) In giving a correction, i am usually blocking a behaviour, thus asking the dog to be calmer in most cases. The dog is not going to be calm if my correction is angry and given while yelling, being rough or over the top. Dog Two- my own dog Georgie who when brought home from the shelter as a 12 month old remains one of the most extreme cases of fear i have ever seen. Providing a correction to her to stop the panic bolting she did at every opportunity, allowed her to see that staying with us rather than running, meant that she would be safe. There was no way to decrease the intensity of the scary things- EVERYTHING was scary to this dog as soon as she became aware of it, even at great distance. The responses were the same at home and out, with or without her 'dog friends'. Blocking the panic bolt response allowed us to teach her there were other ways to stay safe. As soon as she would allow us to, we used rewards and conditioned responses- but we had to block the panic bolt first and the only way to do it was with a correction. The correction decreased her stress because it didn't allow her to go as far down the path of being terrified, working herself up to the point of no return which happened every time she ran. While she is still not completely 'normal' and never will be- she is a million times better than she used to be and anyone who met her in the beginning can attest to this. Sorry for the long post

Jeanne- punishers can reduce stress too.

Don't know about the ears but i just wanted to say Wow- what a stunner!

Would be great to meet you Kavik.

Oh my god.. ;) The ramifications of this could be MASSIVE- where will this all end?

I watched bits of it. There are some things that although you can do them, doesn't mean you should. The idea of working a dog that close to a busy road freaks me out, despite the fact that 3 of my dogs could do it- all it takes is one mistake. I'd rather my dogs mistakes not result in death or serious injury and i don't believe that any dog will NEVER make a mistake. The second part of it- whats the point? Is the reward worth the risk? I don't think so.

Mainly for me and 3 of my dogs ;)

Mrs D could you please recommend someone who does this in Melbourne?