squeak

My two dogs, even my "fussy" eater both eat their fish oil tablets just dropped in amongst their kibble. I did get the "no fish odour" ones, so I don't know if that makes a difference.

I've been caught at with this at tracking training days (even though I believed my dog had been well toileted) and I NEVER want it to happen in the ring. I think I would die of embarrassment! This had never occurred to me until the last trial I went to watch and saw a CCD competitor leave by ducking under the ring ropes. To say I was very surprised was an understatement. I have been thinking about this one as it is apparent that many CCD competitors haven't given it a thought. Decision is that start peg will be on my right - one less thing for the dog to sniff at and having a male, minimises the chance he may wish to mark.... just in case previous dogs have. Something to think about - are you always asked which end you wish to leave your dogs? I ask because it hasn't been apparent from the trials I have been to. If you are not asked and want to leave your dog at the opposite end to the one specified by the judge, can you ask this, or are you better just to "go with it"??? Thanks to everyone for their input.

** bump ** anyone else?

I would like to say that I have high expectations, but I also don't want to be unrealistic about what I believe that my two dogs can achieve. It is something I want to do to gain some experience - I don't think that either of them really have the potential to be exceptional trial dogs, but guess I want to use them to learn and make my mistakes with. I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by this - can you explain a bit more? I read a quote recently about trialling and nerves that was something along the lines of thinking that the judges and stewards are there to "serve" you instead of judge you???

I've mentioned it in other threads that I am thinking about trialling one or both of my dogs in obedience next year. I probably won't enter any trials until May/June next year as I feel that it will probably take me that long to get the dogs to a level that I am happy with. Having said that, I have no great expectations of my dogs... apart from that they are guaranteed to embarrass me at some stage! I've never been involved in trialling, so I guess I don't really know what I am getting myself into So, any and all advice is gratefully accepted. I've currently been studying the rule book and have attended a few trials to watch. I have also stewarded once at our club trial and hope to do the same later this year.

if you are going to use food you have to be a bit sneaky. i use mince have have about 4-5 bits about the same size. this is also easier if your dog can catch. I use raw chicken mince as they think it is a great treat. pop tablet into one piece of mince and roll into a ball. roll other pieces into a ball of the same size. Throw the first two pieces, one at a time for the dog to catch. if dog is suspicious of things this should hopefully fool them into thinking that nothing is hidden. Throw the third piece, with tablet, followed immediately by the fourth piece - so they gobble down the third piece with tablet without thinking because the fourth piece is headed their way. works for me. let us know how you go.

Tracking rules can be found here... http://www.ankc.org.au/home/inner.asp?pageID=70&mainID=2 I've been out with the tracking club twice and they have allowed people to use a ball, toy, food or tug at the end of the track.

Thanks for that. I am very much a "newbie" to even the concept of trialling. I hope (fingers crossed) to be able to trial my first dog next year. Part of my preparation is to read and understand the rules as much as possible (mainly so that I am not the one who fails us!) as well as getting to a few trials to watch and also steward. I guess I questioned the seekback article because I understand that there has been changes to the rule book within the last couple of years??? and I am not sure if what I am seeing at trials matches with the current rules (as most people seem to be using a flat leather seek back article). And, at the trials I have been to in NSW, I have seen plenty of people playing with their dog between exercises (including hand touches, jumps, etc). Interesting from my "newbie" point of view is that these seem to be the better competitors! The thing that really surprised me at a trial was in the open class (I think), where a competitor was using the "touch" command during a heeling pattern, instead of a "heel" command. Yes, the hand was held at the waist, but the dog was occasionally making contact with the hand as they were heeling - dog was actually straining to try to touch the hand. Unfortunately I wasn't able to stay and find out the heeling score for this pair, but I was under the impression that if you contacted your dog or vice versa during an exercise (or giving a signal) that you would be penalised for this. I would be very interested in hearing people's thoughts on this. I don't have a problem with people using a hand touch to teach heeling (whatever works for the handler and the dog), just wondering about what happens in the ring. Shoey - sorry, I seem to have taken your thread a bit OT - happy to start a new thread if you would prefer.

Not sure if this would work for you, but this place have a sheepy tug with squeakers. http://www.obedienceproducts.com/Motivational_Toys.html

Now I feel like I got really ripped off when I bought my articles from here. Thhough I have to say that the service is excellent and that they put up with my endless questions by email, so for service, I guess it is worth it. They are also willing to sell individual articles (ie. if you want an extra leather article for seek back). http://www.callicoma.com.au/training1.htm#...tion%20articles Shoemonster - I would double check the rules before for your state before you purchase a rolled seekback article. I am not sure if you can still use a rolled seek back article in NSW - I would love if someone could clarify for me. Our (NSW) rules say... "Seek Back Article The Seek Back article must not be white, or conspicious in colour and must be the same shape as, and the dimensions are not to exceed those of a Scent Discrimination article. It may be comprised of any material." (emphasis mine)

** bump **

Sorry, I should have clarified. I was originally holding her chin, trying to encourage her to hold the item, but am not longer doing that, as it seemed to be stressing us both out. I only mentioned it as someone asked what happens if...

Do a search (DOL & google) on reverse sneezing.

I have previously tried teaching her this way, but with basically the same result - her throwing the dumbell across the room, even if I remove my hands for a nanosecond. How frustrating. What does she do, when you keep gently holding her jaw closed? Any chance someone could Youtube the both of you? Fogot to reply to you last night lablover. If I try to keep holding her jaw, she starts to try to throw her head around - and if I cannot keep hold, yes she spits it out.

This is a spin-off from my other "retrieve" thread. I am curious how long it has taken people to teach their dog to hold and to also retrieve. I guess I am asking partly to find out if I am an incredibly bad trainer, or I just happen to have a dog who is a very slow learner. I am also very interesting in the following, but don't think that it really fits into a poll question, so I would be grateful if you could post your replies... (i) what breed is your dog (ii) was the dog obtained as a puppy or adult (iii) if obtained as an adult, did the dog have any prior training (eg., ex-show dog) (iv) how was your dog taught the hold/retrieve? eg: clicker training, purely positive, forced retrieve/ear pinch (v) have you previously trained other dogs to retrieve - if you have, did you find this dog learnt faster than you previous dog? Thanks.

dogdude - you raise an interesting point. I think perhaps that I have progressed too quickly from the hold, but can I ask, how do you know when your hold is "solid" enough to progress to the next step. Is it when the dog will hold, calmly, until you ask for the item back? I am also very interested in learning about the forced retrieve/ear pinch (probably not for this dog - not sure if she has the right nature for it?), but it seems to have become a hush-hush topic and few people will talk about it. Even if I never use it, I would still like to understand the training technique.

I say months of frustration because... (a) I am possibly a crap trainer, and/or (b) Dog is a slow learner (took her 6 months to learn to sit) (our other dog I taught to sit reliably within one week), and/or © dog is not a "natural" retriever, and/or (d) your dog is an incredibly fast learner. (e) I have not consistently trained this daily for months - I will take short breaks and try to work out where I might be going wrong and come back to it - mainly so I don't take my frustrations out on the dog. Monelite - this dog was adopted from the RSPCA when she was 12 months old. She had had absolutely no training up until this point. It literally took her the first six months to "learn how to learn". It takes me months to teach her things that I have seen other people's dogs pick up in one session - and I honestly do not think that I am that bad a trainer. I know that our other dog (retriever x collie) learns things much faster when I teach him. Dogs are just individuals and are different - so for this reason, whilst I admit that I am not a brilliant trainer, I don't think that I am that bad. She is not a dog who naturally wants to please or to learn. She is a sighthound - not really known for their retrieving ability. However, it raises an interesting question - how long did it take people to teach their dog to retrieve and what breed of dog is it?

I have previously tried teaching her this way, but with basically the same result - her throwing the dumbell across the room, even if I remove my hands for a nanosecond.

Lablover - I have been trying to teach her to hold the dumbell as the first step in the retrieve. Shirley Chong's method then has you getting the dog picking up the dumbell from the floor, which then progresses to the dog bringing the dumbell to you - the retrieve. I have been working on trying to get her to hold for a while, but with very limited success as explained above. My mention of the ball was my rambling trying to work out if I *should* change something. And yes, I am frustrated, as I don't know what I should do as my next step - I guess I am looking to change something, but don't know what to change. I am open to suggestions. Hoping that has made things clearer, and not added to the confusion.

PAX - she is keen to get the dumbell when I put it on the floor - but only so she can throw it. I almost think that the throwing is "self-rewarding"? and is possibly better than any treats that I could offer. I have read about the two food game from the "gloves" thread, but not sure how you would use it with this??? I don't think I am making it "formal" - if I hold the dumbell, she will almost always immediately look at the dumbell followed closely by putting her mouth on the bit - so I guess at least this bit is solid (trying to find somethign positve here!). Part of my problem is that if I am trying to increase the time she holds (even by a nanosecond) and I miss c/t before she spits it out, she very rapidly loses interest. Kavik - thanks for sharing. It is always nice to know that you're not alone And yes, they always look soooo proud of themselves! Interesting thing happened this morning. I was putting Stormy out and she spotted a soft toy which I had put in a box with some other things to go to Vinnie's. She did a very nice pick up and then started carrying it around the house! Soooo hard not to chase her and go crook on her - I ended up laughing and praising her instead. I moved away from her to try to get her to bring me the toy. Me thinks that perhaps I need to start teaching her the retrieve on stuffed toys instead!!!

Thanks PAX. I have gone backwards soooo many times that I have lost count. Treats are the highest value ones which I use - either cheese (which she loves, but gets stuck in her throat) or frankfurts. I've started to use dried treats for a lot of her other "normal" stuff. I guess part of me is getting fed up with a dumbell being dropped on my toes (I'll remember to wear shoes when I'm training inside, one day) and part of me fears that she will never "get it". When I have been been working with her to hold the dumbell, I have been working with her in a sit, as this is the position that seems easiest for both of us - puts her head at my lap height when I'm sitting down. Otherwise, if I am trying to get her to pick up off the floor, I am not asking for a sit - I am happy that she picks it up. Do you think that the fact that I have taught her to "give" previously (when I need to get something out of her mouth) has any bearing on her reluctance to retrieve? Finally, I have been working with a wooden dumbell. She used to occasionally carry a ball (for very short distances) when playing. Is there any point in trying to teach her a retrieve with a ball first?????

I am hoping to trial one of our dogs next year - Stormy, who is a deerhound X. My problem is that she doesn't naturally retrieve. So, how do you teach a dog who isn't a natural retriever how to retrieve. I've tried Shirley Chong's(sp?) step by step clicker training method, but have reached a sticking point which I don't know how to get past. Stormy will only hold the dumbell for a very, very limited time (1-2 seconds on a good day). If I try to shape her picking up the dumbell from the floor, she will pick it up about 10 cms and then literally "throw" the dumbell across the room.... or at my toes. She thinks that this is a great game, but I don't. I have tried to "help" her understand to hold the dumbell by gently holding her chin, but as soon as I try to remove my hand, again, she launches it across the room. I have held the dumbell as she picks it up, to try to work out what she is doing with her mouth - she seems to try to push the dumbell forward with her tongue as soon as she picks it up, but I could be wrong on this. I am open to any and all suggestions as I am entirely out of ideas.

Thanks for posting that ness. Any chance you could briefly explain the two food game (I cannot access yahoo groups on this PC).

I'm very interested in hearing how you teach this using food bowls... even if Shoemonster isn't

I was guessing that it had some type of retractable tape that pulled "up" - perhaps email them and ask?