Erny

And the thing is, to avoid the word "dominance" (even now it's being referred to as the "D-word" as though it is a bad word, instead of putting 'out there' what it's really about), we go to words such as "leadership". And then, because some people wrongly decide what their interpretation of it is, and do things (potentially wrongly) in its name, the word "leadership" becomes one that earns itself a spot on the "hit list" and a word to avoid. So then we'll pick another word and another word. "Dominance" is not a bad word. It's what we've allowed it to become, to represent. So instead of books and seminars and DVD's trying to decry the use of the word and hoping that the people who read, attend and watch, 'spread the word', what about books and seminars and DVD's doing more to explain really what it is and what it should be about and let those same people spread the word. Often, the way these things are presented, it is as though the true theory is completely false. And I don't believe that it is. Many things are said which are really saying the same thing as what dominance theory says. It is just said as though with a new cover on an old book. Sure, some things are tweaked and/or refuted, but the essence is still there. That there is order and needs to be order within the hierarchical social pack.

Not sure what you mean by that, SnT ???

I don't have much faith in the Aussie testing for thyroid. Feel free to contact me if you'd like to know more (how/why) - only that it is late and too much to type to explain. If you google "Dr Jean Dodds" you'll find a good deal of info on her website though. Australia doesn't test as thoroughly and the analysis 'guage' we use doesn't seem to be as specific as that in the USA. ETA: Don't want you to be re-hashing your other thread, Puggerup .... but if you've more recently introduced kibble where before you did not feed it, the kibble might be what is creating the weight gain? I tend to find kibble to be quite fattening for many dogs. The vegetables don't put weight on.

I don't know, Puggerup, but have you spoken with your Vet about it? Unexplained weight gain can have a medical basis, such as hypothyroidism, to mention just one. How much weight gain are you talking about, Puggerup? Could it be that for whatever reason he hasn't been exercising as much during the day as he might normally? ETA: Dogs, just as in people, can have different metabolic rates and therefore digest their foods differently from another. For example, I'm lean. I might eat what another person eats and not put on as much weight as s/he, even if we might be of similar height. And I know of many dogs who, if they ate ANY where near as much as what my boy might eat (when he isn't in "no-eating mode") and they would be big round balls, whereas my boy is very lean and doesn't hold weight easily.

Thank you Jules - I didn't know about the Pollen rising/lowering. Actually, it makes perfect sense, just didn't think about it. I don't really need shampoos. I haven't bathed my boy for over a year now. He only tends to get a bit whiffy when his skin starts to play up as a result of his 'condition'. I find the Calendula brings it back to health and the cleanliness and sleekness of his coat is as though I'd given him a shampoo bath. And he shines ;). I don't use the Calendula all that often in the scheme of things and most of the 'treatments' with it are simply "spot treatments" when they are used. But I did give him a full Calendula bath about a week ago - only because he went into the lake when we were out for a run and as he has cysts in his feet (getting better) that opened up a bit because of one or two of his neighbouring toe-nails, I wanted to guard against infection. So I figured a bath with Calendula, followed up by some anticeptic spray, followed up by an application of Aloe Vera Gel on all his feet and in between them, was in order. But I will keep the Eco2000 in mind, should I find I need it. My goal is to not bath him .

But that's not the fault of the concept of "dominance". Anything that you were told to apply that was "unfair" on her would be just poor training/poor reaction to dog behaviour. I presume, from the way you've written, that your dog "suffered" as a consequence of what you were told to do by the trainer/s you went to. I'm sorry if that occurred to you/her and hope you got her through it ok.

Only, I think, because people have allowed (or for whatever their reason might be, encouraged) the use of the word to be misunderstood. Are there? How many dogs suffer in the name of "dominance"? What are the stats? In what way are those dogs known to suffer? And because, instead of clarifying the interpretation of "dominance", "leadership" has been used as a substitute word (because, after all, there is order in a pack relationship) and now by a select one or two who have been quite well known to want to dispel "dominance" as having any part in the 'pack' relationship, don't like to use the word "leadership" any more either.

That's ok - might as well have a chat about our allergy dogs along the way ;). Stormie is likely to know better than I but I wonder ..... is it possible that a dog could be mildly sensitive to something (eg pollens at this time of the year) but in the absence of another irritant is not symptomatic (to our eyes), but when the 'other' irritant is present, a synergistic affect occurs that the dog's system can't handle and therefore becomes symptomatic? What I mean is : Perhaps your dog is a bit on the sensitive side to pollens (which would answer to "this time of the year") but might be able to normally manage that without too much ado, but the washing powder you wash his blankets in makes it more than he can handle (which would answer to the "morning/night itching"). (This can be read vice versa as well.) I don't know what washing powder you use, Masons Mom, but I know that whenever I have washed any of my dogs' blankets I use a lot less than I would normally use in a similar load of my own clothes, regardless of how grubby the blankets are. I also tend to use the low irritant and environmentally friendly stuff. Malaseb is good shampoo, but I wouldn't want to be using it too frequently either (to me, every two weeks is too frequently, if there were any way I could avoid it without being deleterious to the dog's welfare). I don't want to turn this thread into a "Erny recommends and uses Calendula Tea wash" ..... but I do and is something I'd rather try than anything that froths.

I do hear what you're saying Stormie. But there are other cases I've hear and read of which don't sound quite so serious and only just suddenly sprung up. I believe the owner has done the right thing by taking the dog to the Vet (when in doubt, go) but hear that the dog is immediately prescribed antibiotics and/or a cortisone shot. The symptoms might have only just sprung inside a 24 hour period. There are other alternatives (natural) that can be tried to ease the symptom and if it were me, I'd be inclined to do this and see if the symptom re-occurred before going to the expense and potentially for the dog, the stress of allergy diagnostic measures. Not intending to make out that the allergy testing procedures are overly invasive - in the scheme of things, although I have little understanding of it, it would be the least invasive measure if it bore a likelihood of helping to resolve a problem that was inclined to be longer lasting. Note : I am not suggesting nor advocating holding back of any drugs in situations that are potentially life threatening, such as swollen around the face/throat. IMO these need immediate attention and action, even if it is a "just in case" (ie don't know the cause) situation. Amen to that!

If you mean bothered by the lead dragging? I'd certainly recommend you NOT purchasing any long-line that is porous and that will soak up water. Eg. Webbing material. I don't like working with these in training no matter the size dog - the line becomes very weighty when wet and this makes it cumbersome to handle, and yes, dogs who are slight or sensitive to the sensation of a lead are affected by them. You would do well to find out the weight of the long-lines, bearing in mind that the longer the line the more weight it contains. For a little dog as yours obviously is, I'd be inclined to go for a long-line that is not likely to be of a material that 'catches' on things such as grasses and so forth. For the littlies, this in itself can mimick the effect/affect of a correction even when one wasn't necessary and have them reluctant to run around with it dragging. I'm getting some new-style long lines in, made of a synthetic leather (synteck). They are 7 metres in length but I think these too are likely to be a bit too weighty if your main use is to have your dog be able to run around dragging it, with your dog being so small and light of build. I'm not sure how the "grippy" long lines go that Steve sells - he would be the best person to ask about those (as far as weight is concerned). I saw some at one of the trade-stalls at the NDTF Conference in Sydney recently and they were very light, if they are the same as Steve's. These are a possibility. I have some fibre-tek long-lines as well (7m length). These are "fake leather" if you will. Made of the same material that the buckle/strap fittings are made of in horse blankets (if you happen to be familiar with them). But of course no where near the width. They don't absorb water and are, in the terms of long-lines, reasonably light. But how much it does or doesn't affect your dog depends on leash sensitivity. Feel free to contact me if you want to enquire further, but perhaps check out Steve's (K9 Force's) "grippy" long lines first as they might well be your better option.

I don't think Kelpie-i was meaning to reference Barry Haywood as a "whipper snapper". I think she was just making the point that paper credentials aren't everything or always mean "best". I don't think she commented with Barry Haywood in mind at all. There are other really good Vet/Chiro's around though, I believe. There was a thread (or two or three or four) over the time with some very high recommendations for chiro's (vet and otherwise). I'm not the only one who has felt that, as good as Barry Haywood is (and he must be, as he does have popularity in his favour), his manipulation methods were pretty harsh. I agree that before any manipulation, especially where a dog is "screaming in pain" and especially where the spine might be concerned, xrays are a recommended "first". But having said that, a few days have gone by since the OP. How is your dog, Good Boy?

No! No! I wasn't offended! Not in the least! I REALLY do hope your dogs live long and unitchy!! And I'm REALLY pleased (see? double-pleased, no less ) that your kelpies have the sort of constitution that doesn't lend themselves to stuff that makes them itch. Oh dear ..... I think I need to ring you. There must have been tone in my post to you that wasn't by design . Erny ETA: I knew you were being silly. You duffa.

I'm not sure if that question was directed to me or to Stormie, Masons Mom. Or perhaps both of us. I think the answer would be that this "depends". For example, it might prove to be a once or twice off thing. If that were the case, I don't think I'd want to put my dog through all the allergy testing regime that would be a part of the dermatologist visit. There is, of course, the money thing as well. Not everyone could afford it. I'm not even sure of the success rate in the field of dog dermatology.

.... Glad you "took it back" Kelpie-i. I don't think I appreciated the difficulty associated with skin/allergy issues and the amount of work (and worry) involved in them, as much as I do now. Experience - what a grand teacher she is. Although it would be good if none of us found we had to learn by her. And I hope that your dogs live long and itchy free .

Not to you, Sas. I'm sorry it causes an issue though. I don't think you have to tick the "just in case" option. But as I mention, if you'd rather I included another option or even if you would like me to alter the wording of that for fear that I am causing insult, please let me know and perhaps suggest some wording that might cover.

I don't use this food but my understanding is that there is the "Hills Science Diet" which would be for general use, and then there are the "Hills Prescription Diets" (not sure if that's the actual name) and these are for dogs with specific health issues such as : pancreatitis; intestinal/digestive issues; teeth issues (cleaning); and so on. I believe the latter is the food that you can only obtain through Veterinary Clinics. Others here will more than likely have a clearer and more precise answer for you.

I'm sorry, Sas, for the troubles your dog has. I wish it could be different, just as I wish it could be different for any health issues any dog has. But I didn't say and don't think I implied you should fit into the "just in case" section. If you think I did and if you'd like me to put up another category (not sure if I have enough poll room to do that) please let me know. ETA: "Just in case" means (for the purpose of this poll) that "we don't know the cause and cortisone/antibiotics were prescribed without really knowing". I thought I had explained that in the OP but my apologies if that wasn't clear. The words "just in case" were not intended to sound as though one didn't care what the cause was, but just that it was unknown.

Yes - I can completely understand that. It wasn't all that long ago that I too, through the ignorance of not knowing what I know now, felt that I wasn't doing anything to fix the problem unless I delivered a drug/pill. And I can fully appreciate there would be plenty of people out there who just expect people such as yourself and those in your industry to "just fix it" without them making any or much effort to alter anything within their lifestyle that might be contributing to the cause of the problem in the first place. And I can fully appreciate that because I get a little bit of the same at times, in the course of my own work/job. I also remember (it wasn't all that long ago) when my boy began breaking out into hives (the first time) - it was really hard to resist the urge to wash him in SOMETHING. After speaking over the phone with the Vet we were with and he explaining to me what happens when we sometimes try to treat an (especially skin) issue with a chemical, it made me realise that I wanted to shampoo because it would make me feel better, not necessarily be the best thing that would make my dog better (speaking for the long-term result). And I recognise there are many others out there who obviously feel the same way as I did, but don't realise that without some more thought, it isn't necessarily what is best for their dog. We've become so reactive rather than proactive in our approaches in certain things.

That could potentially be another poll, perhaps? If you'd like me to put one up, suggest the questions and question options you'd like put up. Or of course, feel free to start one up under your own user name . I kind of tried (vaguely) to cover that one with the "just in case" question.

Hi Stormie - appreciate your input and explanation. Please (and this goes to anyone who is reading) understand that I am not challenging anything here and especially not challenging those who have made the choices they've made, whether that be to opt for antibiotic and/or cortisone treatment, or not. Yes, I am concerned by how frequently and easily these drugs seem to be being prescribed - in fact, it disturbs me a fair amount. But I am not a person who has "crossed over" shall we say. I guess with my experience (with my own current boy and to a degree with my previous avatar girl - bless her cotton socks) I have become more knowledgeable of natural alternatives; more balanced and cautious in my approach to drug administration; and by the obvious point of this poll, more inquisitive about what the "majority" (DOL community being the easiest although by no means 'general' source) of people's experiences with their dog's problematic symptoms have been. I hope I have not and do not cause ire from anyone who reads this thread and poll. Not that I think you came across as angry Stormie. ETA: If anything comes out of this poll at all, I hope it is that perhaps some might stop, think and question what they are doing and why, when it comes to not only the treatments but why those treatments might have been prescribed in the first place.

I would probably include that as a "just in case" option. There will definitely be some blurring around the edges of the questions and everyone's answers, because there are so many contingencies to each case that is too difficult to get around by way of only a poll. Glad it did the trick, Pete.the.dog .

Yes - I mean 'mild' cases, certainly not life-threatening cases.

Not sure I've done the poll as good as I could, so before anyone starts answering, would you mind peering your objective eyes over it to see where I need to straighten things up and out in so far as the questions and options are concerned. What I'm interested in is how many people have had dogs with allergies and/or stomach upsets and have been prescribed anti-biotics and/or cortisone as the treatment. I'm also interested in knowing the stats on how many dogs have been prescribed this treatment (anti-biotics and/or cortisone) without the actual cause of the symptom being known (that's the "just in case" option). I am not suggesting nor making a move to say that the treatments have been wrong or wrongly administered, although I admit to some alarm at how many seem to be writing in about their dog's ills and that the treatment by anti-biotics and/or cortisone seems to be becoming the standard treatment approach. I'm not sure what the poll will reveal and am aware that its content may end up a bit skewed, but it is just for interest sake. And the fact that I should be doing book-work. And I hate book-work. And if I put the book-work off long enough maybe the book-work fairies will come along and do it for me. And maybe pigs will fly.

I don't think he's too lean (although I admit that one camera shot can be deceiving). A bit more muscle build up (rather than weight for weight sake) would do him well - that should come with exercise in combination with the fact that he is maturing. IMO, I see too many fat rotties about and around. Sometimes I think they are the "Lab's second coming". I wonder sometimes if people think that looking fatter means looking strong/muscled. ETA: I don't mean you, Andisa . He looks lovely, Andisa.

Been there, done that, carry the scars... too dangerous to you, your dog or an innocent bystander. The same applies to rope. And I carry the scars of someone else who does this with his dog ...... me in the process of saving the dog from running out onto the road. Bad news.