Erny

I am so sorry to hear of the dilemma you obviously feel the need to consider. I was in similar position to you 6 months ago ..... I remember what it was like. If it comes to it, do what you can do the best you know how and the best you are capable of, for the dog's sake. Whether you are with your girl or not, she will still know that you love her. I apologise that I don't recall having read your other thread so I am somewhat unfamiliar with background history, but arching of her back could also relate to abdominal pain. Could her digestive system have been irritated by the cortisone medication? Just a school of thought for your consideration and perhaps investigation along those lines may give you better indication as to whether her present demeanor can be improved. I wish you all the best on this one. Know that whatever you chose to do you do so BECAUSE you care for her first. No-one can ask for more than that.

Can't help you with a supplier, Cavmad .... but have you thought about looking for a coffee table of similar structure and getting a carpenter (or DIY) to cut a hole suitable for the measurements of your dog's bowls? You might even be able to pick up a coffee table cheap at places such as op shops or from neighbourhood naturestrips on 'collection days'. Assuming the legs are wooden, you could always cut them down to size if they are too tall.

Ohhhhhh ....... WHERE do you live?!!!!!! Maybe I'll move out that way!!!! Is there any chance I could be so lucky that you're the 'almost' neighbour who recently moved into my street a few doors down???? PS. What time is dinner?

what do you define as excessive barking? Kaywoman68 .... I think you'll find that each individual Council have a definition of what constitutes "excessive barking". I'm sure I read it somewhere for mine, but just can't put my fingers on the article at the moment.

A suggestion - why not contact a holistic vet/therapist and seek their advice. I can't see that feeding Eukanuba dry food is going to be better than what you are providing. Could the Vets in question, seeing as they seem to understand their Euk diet fairly well, give you some idea of the nutrient balance Euk would give where yours does not?

Under direction of my Vet I had to administer Kal's doseage every 12 hours so that the effects remained steady. Half in morning. Half at night. Was awkward splitting the half size pills into quarters, but with a pill splitter it was do-able.

I don't think so Tonymc, although I do believe there is someone in our midst who isn't really experienced or fully knowledgeable in the ways of ANY of the pieces of equipment mentioned. ETA .... ESPECIALLY the head collar. :wink:

Ummmmmmmmmm, that's not necessarily correct. I mean, sure it's fitted to the dog's head. This is exactly what creates more leverage on the dog's neck, leaving it very much open to injury.

The friction heat from the Dremmel can cause the flaking/cracking .... that's why I asked if the nails were clipped or ground.

I'm sorry .... I don't really know what the best supplement would be. I'm sure others here will be able to offer more help than I. However, as a starter, HERE's a link to an article regarding canine nails. Much of it is goopligoch to me ............. I'd need to spend time checking up each medical term in each heading (this is not impossible) to determine what it is. Would probably need pictures to help identify. The article talks of fungi. I'm not suggesting that's what your dog has (although there does seem to be reference to dryness and flakiness) but I think it is worth you looking into further. Certainly, IMO, worth investigating as the solution would quite possibly be less dramatic than nail removal, if this is possible. Either way, if I were you and you were still entertaining idea of nail removal, I'd consult a specialist Vet (as opposed to GP Vet) before making that decision.

Do you normally 'grind' them to trim them, or do you 'clip'? Hhhhmmm ........ could you perhaps investigate diet/dietary supplements first? Can't say I'm keen on the idea of removing before all else has been tried. I can't answer this question, Toohey. If there was no/little risk of infection (or more serious damage) then I'd say don't worry too much. IMO, better to have the nails there than not. Just a guess, but I think it would depend on which nails are being removed - could removal affect her natural and proper gait/movement? If so, you might end up creating an imbalance which could go on to irrepairably affect joints later on.

Epsom Salt = Magnesium Sulfate Unrefined Sea Salt contains 98% Sodium Chloride and up to 2.0%[.b] other minerals (salts) : Epsom salts and other Magnesium salts, Calcium salts, Potassium (Kalium) salts, Manganese salts, Phosphorus salts, Iodine salts, .. all together over 100 minerals composed of 80 chemical elements...

Glad things seem to be sorting. One week is a very short time in the scheme of things (given her lifetime of mis-learning at the hands of the other owners). Patience and consistency is required for some time yet. Hope the 'meeting' proves to have earned her a new and good but stable home which is what it sounds she needs. Good luck with her and for the work you do to help these dogs.

ARF - How long have you had this girl? ETA: The "leg hugging", whilst still risking an acceptance by you of HER leadership if not handled correctly, may be a learnt behaviour. Perhaps a behaviour exhibited in her former home in an (successful?) attempt by the dog to avoid the mis-handling she received from them? But now I'm really guessing, as insufficient history detail is available.

Chattering jaws can be a sign of lack of confidence. Is there any lip curl, lip wrinkle and/or nose wrinkle with the show of the front teeth? From this description, difficult to determine if it is a genuine 'smile' some dogs give, or if it is a form of warning. When does she tend to display this?

Hi ARF. Apply leadership (if you aren't already). Be very strict with it. DON'T allow her to initiate contact of ANY SORT. YOU be the one who ALWAYS does this. Cloth yourself appropriately so you can ignore all except the most obnoxious of behaviours (such as gnawing your arm or leg off ). Of course, NILIF as well. Be frugal with regards to your attention towards her when you do give it. Treat everything as "matter of fact" and avoid making anything a big issue. What's she like with playing games (eg. ball games etc.)? Of course, YOU instigate play; with what toy; and when play is to end. And have her do something for you first before play starts (eg. sit). I've got a feeling you know all about the "leadership" stuff .... so no big details here, and it's all I can think of to suggest without having more information and/or without seeing her. But whatever you do do, make it as BLACK and as WHITE as you possibly can. IE If you're denying attention, make sure it is CLEAR that is what you are doing and why. So your timing on what you do and when (and for what periods in between) will be important too. On the picture I have in my mind based on the description supplied in your post, I imagine a dog who doesn't know where she fits within the 'pack' and is uncertain as to your intent and so, whilst fearful and unsure, she is exploring your leadership qualities to determine if they are there and if they can be relied upon, or if it is hers that shall reign. Hence why demonstration of YOUR leadership in absolutely no uncertain terms is what is needed, and probably what she wants to recognise. I suspect that an element of her behaviour is also 'learnt' (quite possibily accidentally) as a result of treatment in her prior home. Thank heavens you now have her.

I'm sorry to harp, but to my knowledge there would be no breach of confidentiality, nor should there be any negative fall-out for a grooming salon (whether the OP owns it or not) to formally enquire out of concern for the well-being of one of their canine clients. If the OP doesn't own it, I would first consult with the owner so he/she knows of and permits the phone call being made. Wouldn't that be the best place to start, rather than talking of calling in the RSPCA (whom I'm dubious would take timely action on this matter, if at all)? ;) After all, who knows whether the owners of the dog have or haven't acted on the OP's recommendation to seek veterinary advice and attention, even though we might well feel we have cause to doubt that at the moment.

Oops! So I won't admit to having seen quite a number of distemper cases when I was younger, as that would be telling my age! ;) 'tis a rotten disease, though and hope it doesn't make the come-back in epidemic proportions as we used to see it. Vaccinations have helped a great deal in this regard. Puggles - I think distemper is still around, but not anything near what we used to see, thank heavens.

Is there any way you can telephone these people, enquiring after their dog and how they went at the Vet's?

Great reading .......... although I wouldn't have a hope in hadies of intellectually conversing with you guys on this micro-biology level. But I'm finding it interesting and in a language (for the most part ... sometimes I don't understand the 'initials' used for certain things) I can follow. Thanks. ;)

It is a very controversial and IMO personal subject that I don't believe anyone is entitled to stand in judgement of any one individual case/situation unless they were to know the facts and details well. (Not that anyone here has done so.) However, as a 'blanket' belief (not pointed to anyone here - nor you OBH, even though I've quoted a section of your post hereunder), I don't think de-barking should be considered, much less undertaken, unless ALL other possible and appropriate behaviour alteration treatments have been applied. I have been working with a dog owner (two dogs) who has a neighbour that has been causing much grief over these dogs barking. From my own observation the dogs are not barking excessively nor inappropriately. To give you an idea of what the neighbour is like, one of the things he will do is bash on his metal garage at 3am in the morning to set the dogs off and then use his camcorder to capture the barking activities. He uses this as his 'evidence' to support his complaints to Council. In this instance, I don't even believe an anti-bark collar is warranted, so we've been working on desensitising the dogs to neighbourly noises (normal and exaggerated) to reduce the barking to its absolute minimum. Slow work, but getting there. Fortunately it requires the complaint of more than one neighbour for the Council to take formal action. This neighbour lives near a school and has also complained about the noise of the children laughing at recess/playtime. Thank heavens it's against the law to de-voice the sounds of children ........................... (although sometimes I'd prefer to hear a dog barking :rolleyes:)

I have been thinking about this since a few weeks ago when I was with a girl who trained her horses grand prix dressage to olympic standard, she uses her mouth to make different clicks for different moves. I was absolutely fascinated as I couldn't detect any change in the click but the horse did. ... Hi Rusky I may be reading your post (above) incorrectly so forgive me if that's the case. But the way I read it, I can't help thinking you're thinking on a different plane to that of WorkingSetter's post regarding the multiple 'clicks'. My interpretation of your post, Rusky, is that the horse trainer you refer to uses a different sound 'cluck' to produce a different behaviour each time. This could be compared to us using a different word command for each action required of the dog. After all, a word to a dog is simply a different sound pattern. My interpretation of WS's post is that with each 'click' the dog is taught to anticipate a higher reward level but also that it would be delivered later. WS - interesting concept and thought provoking, something my ol' grey matter is not up to negotiating tonight after a full-on day today. I'll initiate my thought processes though, by reflecting on those owners who use multiple commands. Eg. "sit, sit, sit". After a time, most know that if this continues, the dog learns that he is supposed to sit on the third "sit". After all, the dog is hearing a series of 'sound patterns' and responding according to what it believes it has been taught. I guess it could work in the opposite as well, but I do wonder at the effectiveness of it (that's the part my brain needs to rest before it muses on the topic with any clarity). Would the 'average' dog (whatever you wish to determine as 'average') be able to reliably differentiate that 1 click means a kibble type reward but that 5 clicks means a fresh chicken meat reward? With careful training to ward against the dog anticipating 1 click = chicken reward, yes, perhaps. But does this make training easier or more efficient? I mean, "Successive Approximation" works in similar fashion but the dog doesn't have to learn the difference between different sound patterns in between times. Of course, 'time span' is built up gradually, as Kelpie-i mentioned earlier. So, I'm still not 'sold' on the idea of what presently seems to me to be further complicating training for the dog. Groan ..... head hurts. Think it's time to knock off and return another time. :p :rolleyes: Hey Kelpie-i! Horse riding lessons? What brought that on? You expanding your R & R activities? This going to occur on a regular basis? You going to become my riding partner?!!! Gosh, it's been so long since I've ridden my boy I think I'd be feeling as sore as you do!!! Hope your butt and legs recover soon. ;)

IMO the dog would only anticipate a correction if the correction was first delivered in the absence of good timing (ie the dog was unable to "pair" the correction with the "behaviour" and therefore was uncertain what action is/was required to avoid it). Many people get the impression that "avoidance training" achieves a dog that then performs with varying degrees of cowardly body behaviour because it is 'scared/concerned' of receiving a correction. Timed well, the dog learns very quickly what action/s to avoid and what actions achieve good consequences. This is in line with the way dogs learn. IE That every action has a consequence. The 'teaching phase', which should not include corrections, builds knowledge in the dog - teaching it the required/good behaviours - exhibition of which will be to its advantage. With this knowledge behind it, the 'training phase' then leaves opportunity for the dog to discover what the consequences of (a) exhibiting the desired behaviour and (b) exhibiting the undesired behaviour. This sequence makes it easy for the dog to make choices of behaviour which result in favourable consequences. The process (applied properly and appropriately) does not take very long at all and results in a dog who is confident that his/her actions are to its advantage - hence it happily responds in the manner we desire. What this form of training also achieves, however, is a dog who learns to rely on direction from the handler. This hesitation/dependancy is is not desired for a working dog where it is necessary for the dog to make decisions independently of the handler.

Hi DBS. I'm so sorry. I know you will do everything that is good and right for Guiness so I doubt he needs the strength of my thoughts (as he would get them from you). So I send to you, DBS, those thoughts for strength and courage and admire all of that which you have already shown. Bless you, Lucinda, Guiness and Oscar. And bless Staffyluv and Olliedog too. May Santa bring you all truck loads of good cheer, good luck and good health.

I think of you guys (DBS and Staffyluv) oftentimes, remembering all the help and support you selflessly gave when I needed. I wish I could be as helpful in return, but I'm sorry that the only thing I can offer here are my heartfelt wishes for some good news for you guys and for the best health you could possibly expect and have for your dogs. I remain inspired (as I always have been, since "meeting" you both) at the level of dedication, tireless but most fair determination you show your dogs ..... all evidence of the love you feel for them. DBS - thinking good news and health and sending the vibes to you and to GM. Good luck.