Erny

Kal had ear mites when I adopted her. I was prescribed ear drops by the Vet, but the problem seemed a bit re-current. On the Vet's recommendation I applied "Revolution" spot on (deals with mites and fleas). Seemed to keep the problem at bay.

Hi Denis Thanks for the info. In your experience, what is the better way to fit the "Bumper Boy" stretch strap collar? Or are you referring to the instructions for the transmitter (assuming a different one is used to that of a "Bumper Boy" one) and not the fitting of the collar. Sorry if I have all of this a-about and haven't comprehended your post as I should.

I get the impression that Bart Bellon will be demonstrating Negative/Positive Stimulus Training and I fully expect, the use of the e-collar in these instances. That Innotek are hosting should not be a surprise that they will have their product on display. Nothing about the seminar (to my knowledge) suggests that Bart's teachings would be relevant ONLY to Innotek equipment. There are differences between one e-collar and the next (sometimes advantages, sometimes disadvantages over one from the other), but dog training principles would surely be the same so whether use be by way of Innotek or other variety of e-collar is IMO irrelevant, provided the chosen e-collar has the appropriate facilities. Innotek aren't saying "come to Bart Bellon seminar but you MUST by an Innotek collar".

Oh, dear Page. Spread your wings and fly. Guide your spirit, safe and sheltered ........ Only the good die young. Special thoughts and condolences to Page's family. I hope their hearts can find peace and comfort soon.

The critical part is in the timing and being aware of other environmental factors that might possibly be paired by the dog with the stimulation at the time it is given - this will mean working to avoid the pairing, or generalising the training so the dog understands that the only thing that triggers the stimulation is the chasing of livestock. IE That no other factor in the environment is relevant. Whilst I agree with WS that it is not rocket science and that common sense should also apply, unless you know how to find the dog's "working level" and know when to quit on a session, I still think professional tuition at least until you have become confident and adept in the use of the e-collar would not go astray. The dog's reaction to the e-collar should also first be determined in a safe, enclosed environment. ETA: And like the others here, I agree that in the meantime and between times, PREVENTION of the behaviour is essential. Otherwise your dog will continue to re-affirm the reinforcement that is available to it when it chases stock and this will cause the behaviour to become more ingrained and more difficult to erase or reduce.

Thinking about it .... but given the expense in travel, I'd like to hear opinions from others who might have already attended one (or more) of his seminars.

Hey DD. Puzzling this. Even in proofing, the same pattern applies. (Referring back to my VERY basic example in earlier post.) Hi M-J Depending on the level of distraction it would otherwise cause, I like to treat at the time the dog is giving me the behaviour I seek. (ETA: Especially if the dog has not been able to pick up the "pattern" easily.) At least whilst the dog is still in the teaching phase. Sometimes this is too hard for novice dog handlers to do though, because they often don't have the observational skills or co-ordination to do this smoothly and swiftly before the dog changes to an unwanted behaviour. Personally I don't have a set "rule" on how close the reps are. Much depends on the dog in question and its emotions at the time as to whether it needs tiny, small. medium or large breaks inbetween. Don't know what anyone else thinks on this.

I may have misinterpreted what you mean, here. If I have, please correct me. However, by the proofing stage, dogs have already learnt what action is required of them by the patterns/sequences taught in the teaching phase. The pattern of (eg) "you say sit; I sit; I get good thing" OR "you say sit; I don't sit; I get things I don't want" is already well and truley practiced and learnt. Well, by proofing stage it should have, anyway ..... else proofing is occurring too soon.

It is a seminar by "Bart Bellon" being hosted by Innotek. "The secrets to Negative/Positive Stimulus Training". The Seminars will be held as two one day events so you can chose to go either on Thursday 19th April or Friday 20th April. Held at Nerang Soccer Club at Recreation Drive, Nerang, on the Gold Coast. The seminars will run from 9am to 4pm each day. $50.00 per head which includes morning and afternoon tea and a lunch. Must say I don't recall having heard of Bart Bellon before. Anyone know of him or been to his seminars before?

This is where interpretation can greatly influence and manipulate the questions and answers given here. I think of "teach" as creating a (eg) word association. I think of "training" as showing/revealing to the dog that there are consequences on the choices it makes. I think of "proofing" as building on what has been trained, generalising that training and increasing distraction intensity.

Well I'll have you know that I have come across some VERY sensitive banana's. Haven't yet met a "perceptive" one though.

Yes - I guess that's the problem with franchises. One might give brilliant results, but others might not. But it can be misleading to those that need them when they all come under the one name. Just because K9 Force is great, doesn't mean another trainer is. And we all understand this - it makes common sense. And yet we can be lead to think that because someone has had a good/bad result from a franchise, that all the franchises of that name are the same. Of course, this would work for 'good' as well as for 'bad' - so there are advantages AND disadvantages in this for the franchisees. The other problem with the franchises is that you have no idea of the individual's experience. I know of one franchise for sale - advertising "no experience required" because they put you through a course. What course? What duration? If K9 Force decided to run under the name of a franchise, then HIS franchise would be excellent. So it really is a matter, regardless of the franchise, of finding out WHO is the actual trainer/behaviourist behind it and investigating as to their reputation, qualifications etc.

I remember well. And having since achieved your goal and made it through the course with success, I bet it's something you can look back on and allow yourself a bit of a giggle. Tough at the time, though.

But I know that you will make use of that and stay home all day doing housework. :rolleyes: As will I.

Lose temper? No. Never. Only ever at myself. Have gotten myself frustated once or twice during training, though. If I was not able to instantly turn the frustration on myself and change it to determination to figure out what I had to do to get around the problem I was having, I would pop the dog back and train an 'easier' dog. Would bring out the other dog later with a fresher approach and calmer mind. ETA: I am quicker to lose my temper at people than I am with dogs.

Well sort of - and what you said certainly sparked my thoughts. Except this dog is not inclined to chase/run after anything, let alone retrieve. Sorry to "tease" ..... I really need to check something else out (ie the quality of "informal" - ie straight in front - recall this dog gives to its owner). Something I know I've seen but have focussed so much on improving the lagging, I can't now remember. If the informal recall is stronger than the "heel" activity, I'm thinking of modifying it to achieve what we're after. I can only let you know how we go after next week.

Thanks LL. Hhhmmm, that's sort of given me an idea. Won't put it up here though, until I've had a chance to put it into practice to check its viability. :rolleyes:

Ok (and thanks) ..... so is this what you mean by "making the article dead" ???? Or is this something you need to explain to me face to face and using hands and arms waving around to get it through to me? :rolleyes:

Had another thought ...... Might try getting the owner to "jog trot" rather than walk. Perhaps that will encourage her dog to come forward more eagerly. Guess I will find out next week, assuming this pair are at training.

Possibly ..... but feel free to offer "tips" if you think I might be missing something.

I wouldn't have any problems there!! Will trot off for a look at the video clip now ...... oh ..... and I am NOT interested in your cleavage, just in case you were wondering!!! :rolleyes:

Hhhhmmm .... description, but without giving you the wrong idea. I admit I NEARLY said "timid" in my previous post, but something stopped me - I don't think that description would be entirely accurate. Attempts to "gee" her up by being excited results in her withdrawing back even more (but then, I'm very "out there" as you know, LL :rolleyes: .... so probably wasn't sure how to take me). But the dog's body language does not suggest "fear". Ears are not flicked back but are often in "relaxed" mode, sometimes flicking forward because there might be SOME interest in what you're doing at the time, but not enough to bring about the "boldness" she seems to require to motivate her more eagerly forward. Maybe "quiet submissiveness" would be a better description ......... which may suggest why she doesn't feel comfortable in coming as forward as we might wish? The handler is softly spoken but firm. There is no "cooching" - the owner knows (now) not to murmur sweet nothings unless the dog is "at heel". I would definately suggest "low drive" ..... but not the lowest I've ever seen in my life time. The dog has definately progressed in the last few weeks. She is probably about 6 inches behind heel position (at the most) now. A few weeks ago she was more like two feet behind. But we are still keeping exercises relatively short, with more numerous repetitions rather than the other way around.

:rolleyes:

..... I can well imagine !!!!! But thin???? No way!!! I looooooooove to see labs in good lean weight with muscle tone. To many lab owners who don't know, however, working fit labs might appear annorexic. But we know better, huh LL? :wink: I don't quite understand what you mean here, LL. :rolleyes: Sorry - my dumb ..... but are you able to explain further for simpletons such as myself??? I don't mind "swinging" some dogs. (Some dogs love this and I use it as a motivator/release/reward, in training.) Only when I can feel and see they have a solid grip on the article. And I am careful about how I land them when they come back to ground on their hind legs first. A bad landing can damage hips - especially ones that might be susceptable in the first place.

As per what Lablover said. Also, keep the exercise very short (just a few steps) and release & reward on that (ie when she is not lagging - ie release/reward only when she is in correct heel position). Build up so that she becomes a bit more enthusiastic about being in the "right position". I presume you are trying to "heel" and "focus" simultaneously? Try breaking down the training a little and reward for heeling (short exercise - frequent releases and repetitions). Work "focus" separately. When things are a bit more reliable/happening, join the two together. There is a dog at training (Golden Retriever). Sweet thing she is, but quite shy (not frightened) and tends to lag. I have had her owner working on very short heeling exercises (minimum 3 steps, maximum 5 steps. Doing corners/turns separately again) and whilst there's still aways to go, her dog is vastly improved over the 3 sessions I have seen her. I have also suggested she refrain (for the time being) from discouraging her from heeling forward of the correct position (if the dog will). It is far easier to bring a dog back than to bring it forward so we can deal with that problem (should it become one) later. We have tried all manner of motivators with this dog including exciting play with the owner; toys; different food treats. The dog enjoys the food, but is so gentle about it all, won't seek it out strongly. Not very interested in toys at all and prefers quiet cuddles from her owner rather than behaviour that would otherwise "gee" her up. Getting there albeit slowly - more than the owner expected possible but now recognises progress and is continually working towards this end but at the same time prepared to be patient.