Erny

If you are low in his pack order, it will be in relation to everything - whether you recognise evidence or not. And it definately won't be helping any of his separation anxiety! So get a move on girl and re-establish your heirarchy status. This requires consistency - for your dog's sake. You'll be doing him and yourself a huge favour. In the meantime, he has had opportunity to establish a learnt behaviour ie not recalling, so you will need to take a step or two backwards in training (revert to long line) to re-address that. I am not discounting the possibility of need for the use of a remote trainer under the supervision of a qualified trainer (and one who can also assess temperament suitability), but put everything else in place first and see what results you get from that.

Would be similar effect to the exercises people do to improve hand-eye co-ordination, wouldn't it?

It's getting late! I've read and re-read my post a few times and can't find where I said to "correct" (need to identify context so I can explain). Did I say that? Would you quote me my sentence please? In a "re-call" there is a risk that a physical correction that can be paired by the dog to you can result in a reluctant recall, if a recall at all. Don't know how much unneccessary attention you give your dog, but you could try backing it off some. If he values it you might find his attentiveness increases.

Yay!!!!!! Knew you could do it, Kelpie-i !!!!! Well done. Whispers: WHY won't we get to see it ?????? ;) Did you record the event for prosperity? Do you need to, or will he attempt this again?

Active Manuka Honey . Get the good stuff from the health food shop. The cheaper stuff from the supermarket doesn't have all the 'goodies' in it that boost the immune system. I've used to give it to my own girl for irritated stomach. Gave it to a foster dog (who'd travelled with other dogs who came down with Canine Cough) when he showed signs of hacking cough. Probably not as strong a dose or strain as what yours has, but next morning no more cough, no temperature and Vet cleared him of cough. Have used it for myself when I've experienced sore throats. It can be amazing how quickly this stuff works. Dogs love it. Either add it to a small portion of tepid water or let them lick it directly off their doggy spoon.

8 months; 12 months; 18 months; 2yo > 3yo. All the typical (approximate) ages when our dogs seemably 'lose' what we recognise as responsive training. Quite often this isn't recognised because it occurs incrementally. First a little something like (eg) a "sit" where this one day we had to remind him by putting our hand on his butt (which we more recently didn't have to do); or a "drop" to which he normally responds on the first command, but this time needed two commands for compliance. Before we know it, we're seeing real command response deficiencies - usually evidenced when we don't get them but NEED them. You do need to factor in to account things (ie sufficient training under distraction; reward level for compliance; etc.) to which you know you have or haven't trained your dog in and whether the training environments have been generalised, but it is not uncommon at all for people to be surprised that their dog simply began to ignore them - either in one or more commands, and typically the off-lead re-call, because it is the more difficult of commands to attain and maintain and because we are often in a position of minimal to zero control - so we can't enforce it. And the dog is very quickly self-reinforced for his non-compliance. As soon as you detect your dogs have 'slipped' in any command, first ask as to whether it is because you haven't trained thoroughly for it. If this is the case, then you have just identified an area that requires more training. If you're in an environment where it has previously not been a problem but now is, take stock of your leadership and the possibility that your dog is 'testing' it (and hence losing respect for you to govern) and immediately take a step back in training (ie back on the lead) whilst you re-adjust your heirarchy status to your favour. When you're certain that you've covered all of the above then yes, steps need to be taken to show the dog something he doesn't like will occur if he doesn't heed your command. As to what this is does depend on the dog. A remote trainer, used appropriately and timely, is often a tool which brings efficient success. But there are some few dogs for which this might not be necessary or even suited. IMO it should not be experimented with unless you are aware of how to recognise and achieve the stimulus at your dog's working level and should not first be applied in an unsafe (ie unfenced) area until you know your dog's reaction to it once off the lead. If recalling from other dogs is the problem, you also need to understand your timing - application of a stimulus in the very close proximity of other dogs can be paired by some dogs as having come from another, and a negative emotion towards other dogs can be developed if not handled with care. A friend's dog would have found even the lowest stimulus from an e-collar as overwhelming. We set the situation up (time and time again, waiting for the 'event' to happen). On the occasion when he did not recall, I had my friend quickly return to her car. In the meantime, I went to him, clipped him to a long line, tethered him to a tree and stood away out of sight (but where I could see him). I allowed him to watch his owner drive off. For a long time he did not refuse the recall after that. This won't work for all dogs nor necessarily many and only the level of negativity the dog derives from it will dictate its success. The negative emotion must be greater than the positive emotion your dog receives for having ignored your recall command in the first place (and conversly the positive emotion for compliance must outway the negative your dog receives from coming away from where he was). Another downfall is that you generally need a partner to work with you on it.

The happiest dogs I've seen are those who know they have a "leader". And why not? All the pressure is off them to think it is their responsibility to make decisions and govern the pack . As a leader, you gain respect and in the nature of dogs, this is given quite willingly and joyfully. Leadership is about being firm but fair, and very clear about your requirements. Cheers SM!

Inconsistency in training and expectations of behaviour guidelines must be one of, if not THE, most endemic of human faults. I always try to make a point of explaining this to novice handlers and to reminding them as their training experiences increase. Often, I don't think the majority of people acknowledge this or believe it is as important as I stress it is, until they encounter training issues and then recognise those issues disappearing once they practice consistency. I guess that's our own learning curve. SM - fantastic that you've gone down this path and made the realisation of where and how you might have been being inconsistent. IMO, that is one revelation forward into understanding our dogs more intimately than before.

Rachelle - tighten up any and all areas of your leadership activities. NILIF - consistantly and very clearly. Make sure YOU are the one who instigates contact, not your dog. Other things (many of which people argue against but which I have found makes a difference). In this way you will be very loudly and strongly asserting your higher ranking position. (ETA: because at the moment, he is questioning it. It probably isn't the first time, and most likely not the last time he'll do this. Know that what he's looking for is affirmation that you stand up to his "leader" requirements.) You are in that phase where your leadership is being contested. Don't fear - your hard work in obedience is still there and will return if you tighten your guidelines (although any self-learnt experiences might need a bit of a touch up). Expect more of your dog. But give an inch and I bet he'll take a mile.

My friend's dog is a "licker". Of everything - air; hands; feet (yuck!!!) and if he can't get those, then sometimes the knees of your jeans if you're sitting down. Although I believe this behaviour is borne of the natural submission he exhibits, I also strongly suspect that he has been inadvertently reinforced for the licking behaviour. If I go to pat him, he tries to lick my (eg) hand/under wrist. I pull my hand away, refuse to pat him and proceed to ignore him. I will repeat this until he contains his tongue in his mouth! I have found that (with me, anyway) the behaviour is reduced (difficult to completely eradicate and slow progress as it is not followed through with at home - fair enough, his owner probably doesn't see it as a problem). When my girl was alive, he was her best friend. But even his licking of face was sometimes more than she could tolerate. I left it to her as to how far she wanted to take it to get him to quit. Kal was great this way, as her reactions were text-book perfect. Sometimes she'd lip-curl, sometimtes lip-curl and growl ..... and if he really pushed her she'd growl, turn and 'snap' at him. But I knew her and never doubted with her that (a) her friend would back-down and not rise to any perceived challenge and (b) that there would be no bloodshed. Your dog's behaviour is not generally a threatening behaviour and provided he is interacting with dogs who do not act inappropriately, their reactions should not be so excessive to be injurious. Dogs will always be able to communicate better with dogs than we can (all things being equal, that is) and where I think it is reasonable to allow I like to let one put another (insubordinate) in its place if necessary. But again - you need to know the dogs (not just your own) and also need to be able to trust the control, vigilence and knowledge of the other dog/s owners. So I guess it boils down to how comfortable you feel in each of the situations. But at least, in the meantime, be sure to NOT inadvertantly reinforce your dog's licking behaviour towards you or anyone else. Whether it will have a carry-over effect to other dogs is a big uncertainty and possible doubt (unless they too exhibit a reaction that your dog doesn't want), but it can't hurt. IMO.

Cheeky thing (your dog). No, she didn't do the right thing ..... only thought to do so when she tested to see if you'd do anything about it. Apply the correction - if your correction is effective you should find that she will realise testing you doesn't get her what she wants and that her obedience becomes more immediately compliant. ETA: Of course, I am speaking on the assumption that you know your dog knows and understands the command you've given her.

Rachelle - it is a stage. A stage of "testing" your leadership and right to govern! Rachelle: In this circumstance, when she does complete the command, do you praise her or give a correction (in whichever form of correction you normally use for training)? I would use a correction. The correction is for not complying with the command when it was given in the first place. Don't let her play you - this is what it sounds like she is doing and you falling for it won't serve your heirarchy status (in her eyes) any favours.

Unless your dog is in real danger of a retaliation that is likely to lead to injury, I'm inclined to suggest let other dogs deal with it. It is a submissive signal and yes, I know of some dogs who are more inclined than others. If your dog cops a scold from a dog or two, that might be just what he needs. If the other dogs have been appropriately socialised and understand correct dog/dog communication, their "tellings off" should not be to the excess. This is difficult, however, if you are unfamiliar with the dogs he is interacting with in this way. Does he have a tendancy to lick you? Eg. You go to pat and he tends to start air licking (or if your hand is close enough, licks your hand)?

Hi Anthea - I'm really sorry to hear about the health troubles you are having with your dog. It is really tough for us dog-owners when our dogs are sick. I can't help you with your question I'm afraid ...... but if I had the concerns you have I'd probably go for a second opinion - and probably through a specialist (has your Vet referred you at all?). I know it means more money, but for peace of mind sake that you're doing all the right things you can do, can be well worth it.

LP - Hear what you say about striking off with the wrong foot. For the more advanced dog, though, this becomes less important as by then he knows that unless he hears a change of command (or receives a hand signal) or release, then he stops in the last position you requested. ETA: But as Kelpie-i has posted, by the sounds of it, it really doesn't matter whether you train for stay/wait or not. The results can be just as great.

SM - How did you train "wait/stay"? The same training as for that should apply to (eg) "drop". And you would go back to the very start as far as distance and distraction is concerned. Although once your dog has got the idea, it shouldn't take as long for him to catch on.

Yes - I contemplated that later. But holding the dumbell is, in a way, a "position". Kal deplored having anything other than a meaty bone in her mouth (and even then she never really ran around with it) but I could get her to hold a ball in her mouth for at least a few seconds with the use of "hold". Mind you, she would look quite disgusted at having to do this .... and because there was not much point (she wasn't into ball/toy games) I never saw the point in pushing that action. The point I made of "hold" though, whilst being similar to your use of "stay" was that was only for positions which did not possess a particular command. It's a bit difficult teaching "lie on your back on this table with legs all outstretched and don't move your head or any inch of your body" for when xrays are being taken. ;). With known commands and the way I train, there is no need to add an extra word (ie "stay") into the exercise. One word (ie the command) says it all. I would change that, I think, if I could recognise a real benefit to adding the extra word to the same exercise.

;) Ahhhh ..... help! Stop picking on me!!!

;) Sprung bad for not having read every single post here. Oops!!!! Sorry.

;) I have a Dremel and used to run it on about #3 or #4 (it goes to #10 so I presume it is referring to RPM). Would only work on a nail for no more than 3 seconds. I'd then go to the next and the next etc. Then return to the first one .... so on and so forth. And Kal's nails were TOUGH and THICK! I guess it depends on how close to the quick you are as to how quickly the nail heats up. But no way could I give one nail a constant 15 seconds of application. Here's a link to a web-site on Dremel Tips/Hints that might help some here. Go to the left of the page and click on "How to Dremel Dog Nails".

If the chemicals in the spot-ons are powerful enough to kill mites by application to the back of the shoulders/neck, I'm not sure I'm keen on the idea of actually putting the spot-on directly into the ear. I know from the posters here that their respective Vets may have suggested it, but can't say I'm comfortable with it. How do we know what else the chemical might do to the sensitive skin and the ear function itself? Am I simply being a bit over-cautious / worried? (Maybe because Kal was a sensitive soul - both physically and mentally.)

No .... I see advantage in "hold". I have used this when I have put my dog (ie physically manipulated) into a position (positions that are not frequently used and have no known commands to them) and then instructed "hold". One Eg. When my girl had to have heart xrays - I was able to escape the necessity of sedation or general anaesthetic because I was able to put Kal into position and say "hold". A lot of this was based in her trust in me, but she also understood it meant "keep that position; don't move".

If a dog has learnt through out teaching that drop means "could be here for a short while or a long while - I know I have to wait here until I hear my release word or some other command to change" (and this comes with randomisation both in time; distance and whether it's a release/recall/other command or return to dog first) what difference to the outcome if "wait" or "stay" isn't an inclusion in it's human taught vocabulary? Isn't it the same? And if it is, aren't we filling the dog's head up with additional or unneccessary words? I'm one for "if it works for you, great". But I'm also one for "if it makes it easier for the dog to learn/know, then even better". Maybe it is as one earlier poster suggested - maybe it's the human component of the 'team' that finds it beneficial and more comfortable? ETA: If it's not - ie if there is a bigger advantage to the dog being able to learn easier and faster, then I'm yet to understand it. PS I'm wondering if it's the way we train and/or when we train for what? I train each thing individually. IE sit; drop; recall; stand; loose lead walking. Then heel and the 'stay' work. Then I start chaining a couple together etc. etc.

I see what you mean and assume you're talking here of going from a commanded static position into the "heel". But you'd give the dog the verbal cue for "heel" too, wouldn't you? Not just about moving off with you because you're moving off with the "come with me" leg?

Good question, Cosmolo. As you know I don't find use for stay or wait either and train as you do ..... ie sit means sit (or drop means drop etc) until I release you or change the command. I was reading in another thread (in general?) where some use "stay" to mean "stop there but I'm not going to move away" and "wait" to mean "stop there and I am going to move away" (or vice versa). I would think less is more when it comes to verbal commands for dogs, but I too am interested in those who trial as to what their thoughts on the subject are and what the advantages of these additional commands are. Admittedly, I used to use the word "stay" to my girl and for her it meant "stop there, but I don't care if you chose to stand, sit, or drop, just don't move away from that spot. She seemed to also understand that "stay home" meant she could wander and do whatever she wanted within the home and yard, but could not venture out beyond the front gate. This latter one was a very loose term I would give her though. It worked for the small moments it might be necessary but mostly the gates were closed so it was unneccessary.