Erny

Definately leadership is the core of the problem, as Tonymc has suggested. And it sounds as though this has been the core of the problem for quite some time .... but now the behaviour is escalating and now baby is almost here, the severity of the problem has been brought into focus. BG - you ask if there is any hope. Obviously I haven't seen this dog. But even though your post sprouts a myriad of problems, I believe there is hope - perhaps quite a bit of hope. Are you and your OH prepared to put in the hard yards to turn this around? As the dog is out of control at the moment, please ensure he is kept away from baby when baby arrives. If you put things into place immediately (or as immediately as you can) regarding leadership (and remain very clear, strict and consistent with it) you should find the edge coming off some of the behaviours he's exhibiting. I wish we were closer - I'd love to help sort through this mish mash of behaviour and causes for it. (The majority cause being lack of leadership, as aforesaid. You now have learnt behaviour to deal with as well, once leadership is in place.) I would strongly recommend you take a day to see Steve (K9 Force). It will be well worth your while. There is so much more value and ground gained by consulting one-on-one (on both the behaviourist's part and yours) than in trying via the internet.

Congrats, CJ! Job well done ..... says something for your training and for your dogs. :rolleyes: Sardog ..... what you doing up so late?

Being a GSP it shouldn't be difficult to notch the collar up firmly enough so that it cannot slip beyond her ears (either one singularly) without her choking. That will at least assure safety from escape doesn't really help with the aggro issue. If you use a head collar, use a "fail safe" device as well. This is a short lead that attaches the lead to the flat collar. It does not interfere with the use of the lead to the head collar .......... unless the head collar fails. This will at least give you a back-up option. Although the aggro issue isn't really what you posted about, given that you're in NSW a special trip to visit Steve at K9 Force would I expect be worth your while, if you are needing to seek help in that respect. Good on you for taking in a dog and helping it rehabilitate to a happier life. :rolleyes:

Do you happen to know what surface/covering the breeder had in the whelping box when your pup was born? Wondering if the behaviour relates to a substrate preference established back then. Either way, pup obviously needs to be taught "not on the carpet" so I'd go back to early toilet training regime. As Haven suggests - put blankets, eating bowls, sleeping area on the carpet. Dogs are less inclined to soil an area where they eat and sleep and this could help you in this early training of "not on the carpet".

So did I and so I was going to post that if the collar was slipping (I presume the OP means "off") will directly correlate with how firm it is and that whether it is a wider greyhound collar or not would otherwise not make any difference. Just not sure if I'm understanding correctly. :rolleyes:

Ummm .... just wanting to clarify. From what I can read, posters have responded on the assumption you are talking about "head collars" here. Are you? Or are you suggesting your dog is slipping normal flat collar? In any event, I'd recommend you engage the services of a trainer/behaviourist to sort through the dog aggro issues. As far as collar is concerned, have you tried a martingale if "collar slipping" is your primary concern and if you think you can manage to control her in one. I'd probably venture to consider a prong but this would depend on the dog when I had the chance to observe it. If control is a problem, a prong is certainly helpful, useful and effective. Just because the dog wears the prong doesn't mean you have to activate it or activate it strongly. But it is there should it be required. However, like any piece of equipment (including head collars) you should know how to properly fit it and use it and in this case it sounds as though you and your dog need a program to work through the current aggro issues.

Enmark and Khan28 .... I'm with most here. I don't believe in nor have any faith in the "Alpha Roll" as it is known. For the reasons mentioned .... it really doesn't go close to how another dog would deal with subordination of another. And the dangers to the handler/trainer it incurs. It certainly can lead to a sudden and high rise to the challenge by the dog .... and if the handler lost the challenge, the problem is immediately worsened. :p Knew of a person who owned a big, strong, working-line Rotty ..... went by the name of "Fluffy".

Shan2001: This could ..... and should apply as a blanket statement to whichever and whatever piece of training aid/equipment is being used at the time, be it check-chain, head-collar, etc. etc. Beaglenewb: Because the school preferences the use of check-chains doesn't mean they don't encourage the use of positive reinforcement. Have you spoken with them about this? Many people instantly think anyone/any school that employs the use of check-chains (or similar) train using majority "negative" association. In many cases this is simply not a correct assumption. In some cases, I will train with a check-chain (preference to prong not being an option here in Victoria). In some of those cases and in some sessions, I don't even apply it. But it is there should I need it. In other cases - especially where I am not the one handling the dog - I may not initially recommend it. This might be because of the dog's issues/temperament at the time and/or the new handler's lack of handling skill/co-ordination. Freckles: Hi Freckles ...... whatever works for you and whatever you're happy with, I guess. But I have to say that it sounds like "bribing" to me. What happens if one day you forget/run out of treats .... does this mean your dogs think "great, I don't have to (or, in my mind, they'd be thinking "there's no reason to") pay attention to my handler????? I would be interested to know what "trick" you use to keep your dog's noses of the ground. I've worked with a number of Beagles. Each were different and each were obsessed with putting nose to ground in varying degrees. Each had individual preferences for reward. I worked differently with each; modified each exercise as needed to show the dogs what I was after and rewarded in different ways, according to what worked best for the dog at the time. Can't say I had a particular "trick" though. Beaglenewb ....... does the club prescribe to the use of a Check-chain immediately (ie from pups onwards)? When in the "teaching phase" I work to avoid the giving of corrections, but simultaneously, work to set the dog up so it can't help but "win".

You've probably found it by now .................... but in case you haven't .... ADT

I'll bow to your greater experience with Greyhounds, GM :D. I could picture a GH catching a cat on a stretch with speed. Guess I don't conjure the same image in such a small house as the OP describes, where running starts might not be quite so easy. But I presume GH's are also bred and taught to reach top speed from standing starts, so I guess that figures ...............

Why can't you simply block the room off (the one that has the kitty litter etc. in it) in such a way that the cat can escape to it (should it ever need to ..... and by the sounds of it, this has not been the case) but the dog can't follow? The animals, generally speaking, will sort themselves out. Make sure you are the dog's leader - as perceived by the dog.

Is that actually a book? How sad that I have that quote in my sig and I didn't even know that Second "How dogs learn" Ooops! I must have misread it as being part of another post by you Haven, in another similar thread (from a while ago) and thought you were recommending it as a book. Think I must have been ready for a "nanny nap" at the time I wrote here. Thank goodness I didn't end up professing to have read it!!!!! Ok guys ..... forget "How sweet it is when the strong are also gentle" as a book, but remember it as a nice quotation and as being Haven's signature.

Kal's nails grew like tree trunks .... concrete only managed to round them off but never wore them down. Had to file her nails every two weeks because her quicks would not shrink back. Consequently I was often merely maintaining them to a length in an effort to prevent the quicks growing any further down. Her nails were long enough as it was.

Forgot to add in my posts that I purchased my Dremel from Bunnings.

Sorry .... only meant to edit above post, but hit the reply button instead. ;)

The books listed are not so much about "How to Train your Dog" as they are about how to understand your dog, be leader (essential for most applications, whether that be obedience training; specialty training or whatever) etc. etc. I think all of them would provide value to anyone. There are some things in "The Culture Clash" that I don't 100% agree with as there may be with the others as well. But like all things, it's a matter of taking it all in, making your own evaluation and working with what suits your own dog best. I'm not a fan of "How to Train your Dog" type books. IMO the contents are too "static". It's not as though the author can watch what's happening and make necessary adjustments on-the-spot should the method/s given be less than suitable for certain dog individuals. Enjoy your training, Miranda ..... have fun, and don't forget to take along your dog's favourite motivator for use as a reward in between exercises. Which Centre is it that you'll be training at? Perhaps I'll see you there some time? :D I apologise for the hi-jack too, Rooster78. Hope you don't mind. ;)

"How dogs learn" by Mary Burch and John Bailey "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson. "Don't Shoot the Dog" by Karen Prior "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell These are just a few, for starters. None of these books relate specifically to Labradors, but relate to dogs; dog behaviour; and your influence on dog behaviour in general. IMO, having an understanding in this regard is a necessity borne from merely owning a dog and I expect you will enjoy reading them as well as take benefit from having done so. "How sweet it is when the strong are also gentle" - Libbie Fudim is another book that has been recommend although I confess I have not read it myself so must refrain from comment there.

Which "tool" piece do you use for this purpose, Roxiekda? Ewwwww ..... don't know that I'd be game to do that on an unsedated dog. One slip with the machine and I could imagine the damage that could be done. ETA: Not to mention the possible damage to tooth enamel if the "tool" used is not specific to dental work?????

Toohey - admittedly I haven't gone to look at the one you've pointed to (on E-Bay) but I will say that when I made enquiries to purchase mine I was well advised to go for the one that runs the most smoothly and quiet. I found the Dremel (in my estimation) to be the best. I went for the electric one because even compared to battery operated it was quieter still. Given my dog didn't like her nails attended to at the best of times, I wanted something that was the least likely to cause her unneccessary upset. Although there are many who revel in the convenience of the battery operated types and I admit there would be a degree of relevance to that, I have not found the cord on the electric type to cause any difficulties in handling. But this is my own personal opinion based on my own personal experience with this one dog. For others it may well be different. Don't know if you've seen it - I posted the link here a few years back and I've seen it being pointed to here several times since, but I did find a website giving tips on HOW TO DREMEL DOGS' NAILS. If you haven't already read it, I think you will find it quite informative and useful. Another tip (which I don't think is in the link I've given here) is if you find it difficult to identify where the end of the quick is, moisten the tip end of the nail as you go. It shows up the colouring of the quick and makes identification much easier. I used to dab a bit of spit on it with my finger.

Oops! My bad! I missed that part of the OP's post (ie that it was in relation to two dogs). In that case, I don't think the quote is a bad one either.

Are you a "first time lab owner" (ie had a dog before but this is the first time it's a lab) or a "first time dog owner"? Can you give us some idea on your background as far as "dog knowledge/experience" is concerned - this will help others suggest suitable books for you.

Not ever having sold or purchased anything on E-Bay, is there provision on the E-Bay site whereby you can post an announcement of the goods stolen from you Jeff? Might help, just in case any of the articles make their way there, unlikely as that may or maynot be?

The "extraction" sounds a lot of money IMO, although I admit to not having much of a bench mark to go by. Some number of years ago, Kal had a filling in one of her back molars. I can't find the account so am a bit hazy about what I paid for the service, but I think it was somewhere between $200.00 - $300.00. I had occasion to take a dog to emergency for an accidentally loosened tooth just a few days ago. They ended up being able to quickly extract it without GA. The account, including antibiotics, painkiller injection and the service was $186.00. But remember, no GA was involved in this case. Also note that the Centre is an Emergency Centre, and they often charge at a higher rate for consultations as well. (Although funnily enough, when there is "service" involved, I often find the EC's work out cheaper ..... :D). Sorry - don't know if this is much help to you. I have no idea what the average cost of root canal work would be. Have you tried ringing around a few places ..... ? ETA: Oh! I just remembered. A friend of mine had cause to contemplate root canel work on her dog's canine tooth. I think she told me estimated cost was $1500.00. So as far as that side of things is concerned, perhaps the price quoted to you is the 'norm'. And Akitaowner - you may well be correct regarding higher difficulty in removal of a canine tooth as opposed to any one of their other teeth. I wasn't thinking about that, which is maybe why I feel $950.00 is a bit steep.

Oh Jeff ..... so sorry that you obviously haven't sourced the thief who stole your equipment. Hope it does get to be returned to you in good order ..... and hope Karma does its "thing" and returns to the culprit big-time and forthwith. Somehow I doubt I'll come across your goods, but I'll keep my eyes and ears out for you. :fingerscrossed emoticon: Sorry for going Nekhbet

Negative punishment = punishing the dog by taking something good away. Negative reinforcement = rewarding the dog by taking something bad away. ETA: Have you tried backing up your training and getting your dog to sit in front of you and "take" and then "give"? Hold the item yourself at first and incrementally step it up so you can remove your hand with dog still holding. Teach your dog to relinquish only when you put your hand out for it and that he must relinquish only to your hand to receive ultimate reward.