Erny

I don't believe that thyroiditis should be discounted on the basis of one simple blood test - especially in the event that it returns as "on the low side but within the normal range". HERE's a link to an article by W. Jean Dodds, DVM "Behavioral Issues with Thyroiditis that some here might find of interest and from which the following exerpt was taken:- "... testing of T4 has recently been shown to produce unreliable results in 52% of dogs ... and therefore should not be used even as a general diagnostic screening test. Complete thyroid profiling is the most accurate and correct way to diagnose thyroid dysfunction when coupled with clinical information about the animal. ..." And from the book "Psychopharmacology of Animal Behavior Disorders" :- After explaining counter affects of one blood serum upon another that can lead to false/misleading results ......... For this reason, to diagnose hypothyroidism in our behavior patients, we prefer to rely on a thyroid panel measuring all six analytes (TT4, FT4, TT3, T4aa, T3aa). I realise this thread is not essentially a discussion on Thyroiditis, but under the circumstances feel this information may be helpful if not pertinent to the OP. In fact, I'm impressed that the OP's Vet thought to investigate thyroiditis in this case. Many do not realise how prevalent this condition is within our canines and I believe many many cases go unnoticed and hence untreated. Unfortunately some Vets, particularly those who don't believe in or have much knowledge of thyroiditis in canines, routinely do the one simple blood test and so long as the result falls ANYWHERE within the normal range, discount any possibility that it can remain the culprit of various health and/or behaviour issues.

;) I think that's a good law though. If one has less than $5.00 and no fixed place of residency, being arrested assures you of a meal at least. Yep - need to appeal to any polly's sense of ego. The first part is factual submissions (eg. formally prepared scientific reports) expressing/convincing of the greater qualities/uses of the prong. The second part is submissions from individuals (eg. personal experiences evidencing prong benefits -vs- no prong). The third part is something along the lines of petitions. Wrap all of that up and tie it with self-gratuitous ribbon that the polly can use for his/her own gain/recognition and we might get this past first base.

Dear Jodie. ;) Bless you for all you have done and have tried to do for Ollie, and for the love that shines from you to him. Above all, I believe it is the latter that has helped him to get as far as he has now. We're all here for you, whenever you need. And Helen (DBS) - a word for you too. You're always there helping others (as you did for Kal and I, through her illness and beyond her passing) even when you yourself are suffering the emotion of anticipated loss. Thank you for everything you do. Know that we're here for you too in your journey with Lucinda.

There are others in this forum who are far more expert and qualified (through experience or otherwise) who could suggest. However, if it were me, I think I'd have the littley down to the Vet to at least check temperature etc. etc. It bothers me that the runs have not improved. If the pup were an older dog I'd probably be comfortable enough to hold back and give it more time, but pups can be so much more quickly affected. Is she drinking water ok?

Hard to tell from the information given. How long was she one the "newly re-introduced food" before the runs began? Is she still on the "newly re-introduced food"? Does she still have the runs, or are they abating? What food is it? Is she still well in appearance and demeanor? How long has she been exhibiting the runs?

Hi Kelpie-i IMO, I wouldn't involve the plastic prong (is that legal or illegal here in Vic?). I think sing the virtues and practicalities of the prong and push for restricted use of it straight off. Or we could try an intermediate step and stand on a nest of stinging bull ants. I think that might be more enjoyable, don't you think?

Yes I know. I've thought the same myself, Jeff. And I wouldn't propose putting too much (the lesser the better, if any at all) emphasis on the e-collars.

I think it should be approached not on the basis that we want the legislation thrown out (oh no .... that would perhaps embarress the government and would not work to getting them 'on side' for this purpose), but perhaps 'altered', coming more in line with the legislation Vic has for e-collars. IE Restricted use. Except that I wouldn't have it where Vets need to give the ok to use one, but would stick with the use being allowed under supervision and/or instruction by a qualified trainer. I think the government would be more inclined to re-visit the legislation on that basis, rather than a complete ditching of the legislation.

A clean butt.

Ahhh ..... I imagined a complete clip off. Yes - you're right that getting a pup in early and having regular trips to the groomers is good 'socialisation' to this sort of 'activity'. With the ones that only come in once or twice a year ........ the part I hate is that a number of those people don't think they have to groom or maintain in the meantime and the dogs come in with mats on mats. How uncomfortable for them.

I was thinking the same thoughts, GM. If time is sparce and what time there is is taken up with exercise etc. etc. but no time left to groom to avoid matting, then clipping IMO would be the next best option. But I don't quite understand the necessity to groom a puppy ..... it's coat wouldn't be that thick (under & top coat) would it? But hey ..... at least the owners care enough to do it. There are many that don't. Hope they're conscious about the extreme weather changes we've been having (at least here in Vic and NSW) and ensure the pup is kept warm given the loss of his puppy coat.

Yes - this is what normally occurs. You need to keep "re-loading" or the effect will wear off.

People EARN the respect that comes from the Leadership they exhibit. If they don't exhibit it, the dog won't have anything to respect. You could of course take control (eg on lead) of the dogs and work on command reliability so this can be used by you when the dogs AND you are in the presence of others (and as leader this is part of your responsibility too), but it is not going to follow that your dogs will learn to respect them .... they'll simply be learning to respect and defer to your choices, not theirs. Remove you from the equation and the dogs are left with no-one they can respect. I don't ask people around me to learn about dogs with the passion and interest that I do. But if they will not at least follow my request for certain response behaviour when they are around my dog, then I take that as a slight and lack of respect to me.

Only that providing stimulus control (ie the sandpit) is something that may help, but I am not confident it will do the trick to the extent you require if the cause of the problem is boredom and/or attention seeking. IF I am right and IF this IS the cause, then how to fix the problem without removing the cause of the problem is problematic in itself. Have you given thought to hiring a dog walker on each of the days the dogs otherwise would not receive physical/mental stimulation? The CAUSE of the problem needs to be addressed. Then your efforts to alter the behaviour the dogs have LEARNT as a result will have a higher chance for success. Sticking a bandaid on an infected wound, without addressing the infection, is not going to cure it .....

Or perhaps make the rest of the family listen to you so that he will listen to them? :D

I'm hearing you when you say you put in as much as you can. But I am getting the feeling that what they are getting isn't quite enough particularly as they are now in what would be their most energetic (physically as well as mentally) period of life. When you're not there for the 3 days per week, what quality interaction/exercise are the dogs receiving from your OH? Do you notice ANY decrease in the digging behaviour on the days the dogs DO receive a good portion of mental/physical stimulation? Provide them with a sand pit and teach them they CAN did there and NOT elsewhere (that will also involve preventative measures to the other areas as there will be a good element of learnt behaviour). IF digging is the result of pent up energy, stopping the digging may well result in behaviour manifesting itself in other (quite probably undesireable) ways.

Hi Jaybee. Are the dogs otherwise being provided with sufficient physical and mental stimulation throughout the week? Do they 'garden' whether you are around or not, or only when you are not home?

18 months? Then he's had a fair period of time to learn, establish and exhibit this behaviour and convince himself of his higher ranking position. You've used NILIF before and stopped? This should be a consistent program, not one that's only there when there are problems (especially at his young age). A leader must exhibit leadership consistently for it to retain its credibility. Each time you let it slip it will become more difficult and time consuming to re-claim. Leadership is something each member of the family should practice.

Hi Arby. Smacks of leadership issues here. How old is your dog by the way? Any chance he's somewhere between 7 months and 12 months of age? Do you belong to a training school up there in Sydney? K9 Force will be able to show and assist in relation to gaining a higher ranking status than what it sounds you have. Briefly, two things I would recommend you do (at least): Apply the "NILIF" program. (Nothing In Life Is Free) Don't give ANYTHING AT ALL to your dog for free. Make him do something for you first. YOU initiate contact with your dog. NOT the other way around. Many have proclaimed success using the "TOT" (Triangle of Temptation) program which K9Force has had "pinned" to the top of this training forum. You could put that into place too. I think if you correct this leadership imbalance, your dog's behaviour will show improvement. But you MUST be consistent. Don't expect to see results for a period of two weeks (assuming you keep up the good work ). You might see results sooner, but if you don't, that doesn't necessarily mean it's not working, so don't give up.

This very topic takes my memory back to some years ago when I had my girl (Rhodesian Ridgeback) at training. Kal was adopted by me when she was 7 yo and at the time exhibited fear aggression to other dogs. I put in a huge effort to overcome her issues and for the most part was successful, although never 100% as her issues relate back to critical period of development. Our progress and breakthrough was confirmed when in class during a drop/stay at distance ( say, about 30 metres) a malamute broke his stay and wandered over, past and through the other dogs, coming to stop only to stand directly over my girl. I called out to her "drop!" to re-confirm to her to hold her position (she was loading with anxiety) because I felt that if she tried to stand it would result in a challenge scuffle. She held her drop and this gave the Mal's owner time enough to retrieve and draw away his dog. I returned to Kal and released her from her commanded position. I was so proud that she had trusted enough in me to defer to my choice even though she would otherwise prefer to opt differently. The whole class cheered her, as they too recognised from the other dog's body language the potential danger in that situation. So there is a practical reason why dogs should learn obedience reliability under distractions - even those that are more extreme. And IMO, it is the Obedience Trials which should show up this reliability. It is unfortunate that your dog broke as a result of the error of another, but it does depict that your dog requires more proofing in this exercise ...... and for good reason, as you never know when you might actually REQUIRE it in real and practical life.

Fine in this case = $5,000.00. Hi Oonga

Ummmmm, in Victoria, WnD, I don't think so. It's a total ban. From the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Regulations 1997: 7D. Use of pronged collars prohibited A person must not use a pronged collar on any animal. Penalty: 5 penalty units

PMing you, Jaybeece.

Funny you say that, because I brought up that subject with someone else only yesterday. Hhhhmmmmm ........................

Glad you posted with an update, SL. I've been thinking of good ol' Ollie dog over the last few days or so ..... given my recent forced 2 month spell from DOL (major computer crash) I was almost not game to ask! So pleased to hear Ollie is still enjoying life and holding his own. Was thinking about Lucinda too, DBS. Give them both my good tidings, wish them well and deliver the cuddle I send them both.