Erny

Hi everyone! I'm back! Well! My PC died around midnight on 20th September and I only just got it back today. A frustrating ordeal on two accounts. 1. Being without DOL & the wonderful peoples I have come to know and love. 2. Struggling to get service from the PC Department (it's a long story but I have the good grace to acknowledge that they got it fixed under warranty when it wasn't meant to be). Phew! I've spent the last few hours wandering around DOL and catching up on a ton of emails that have been coming through over the last 7 or so weeks. To anyone who emailed me and had their emails returned because my "inbox" was full .... sorry. Inspector Rex - thank you for your caring to begin a thread asking after me. I know from our recent telephone conversation that Phoebe has had her pups and I must say to all here they are really sweet and Phoebe sounds like she's being the perfect Mum. Sardog - thanks for replying on my behalf. As Sardog mentioned, I've been in fairly regular contact with her and has kept me happily occupied and involved in the field of "Search and Rescue" dog training. This has been fun, interesting, educational and social (:D) and I look forward to more of the same. Lablover has also looked after me well on the same levels, but in her specialty field of "Retrieving Trial" training. We've had fun there, not to mention the drinkies we've shared (a necessity, as one must of course re-hash over training techniques and what better way to do so than over a chard, or red, or scotch or whatever :D). Lablover, as you've read, has also found me a PUPPY!!!!!!! Sure .... he's not even a twinkle in his mum's eyes yet and I am trying to be cautiously excited as until the pups are conceived and then on the ground, one just never knows. But I am sooooooooooooooo looking forward to the eventful day when I can bring him home and very much look forward to commencing his training career as a Search and Rescue dog for which I will be under the very skillful and watchful eye of Sardog :D. Thanks Lablover. :D Bloss344 - thank you for thinking about me. I'm privileged by your thoughts and of everyone else's. Oonga. DOL not the same? Hhhmmm. That could be a good or a bad. Don't know that I'll start a poll to learn the results on that one! Hey! But it's good to be back. Feralpup. Quiet without me? Unassuming, mild-mannered me? :D My fingers are flexing over the keyboard, getting warmed up. I've read a fair amount of what has been being discussed here on DOL (although there will be still many threads/posts I've missed) and given the lateness of the hour will have to refrain from getting back involved too much tonight. So, "flaming off the keyboard" as Sardog puts it () will have to go on hold again for a day or so (training tomorrow), but this will give my fingers and thoughts some warm-up time. :D Isaviz - I thought about the convenience of having a spare computer. But I got to say, my garden; lawn; houseduties and car maintenance have never received such concentrated attention since I didn't have DOL to keep me busy in those otherwise 'spare' moments! And I admit that I've also been retiring to bed a little more early than I otherwise would! It was devastating and frustrating not having free access to DOL as, after losing Kal I find I have to keep myself busy all the time. There's only so much dog training, gardening, housework, car-cleaning and lawn-mowing a body can do in one day, and taking time out for physical rest but at the same time keeping mentally stimulated by interactions on DOL was a good mix. So glad to have PC back now ..... I ran out of garden to do, so took to driving over to Mum and Dad's and helping Mum with hers . I know she enjoyed the 'working' company, so a good has come out of a bad at least. Cosmolo - as Lablover has replied, it's a Lab puppy I'm getting. Kal, my girl not too long ago passed, is Rhodesian Ridgeback. I know I'd like to get a RR puppy at some stage, but not now. Now, I'm dedicated to the field of Search and Rescue which demands a certain type/style of dog. The pup I'll be getting will be very different in almost every way than Kal, and I think this is a good thing for me too. I am looking forward to loving it and working with it. Rusky - how are you travelling? Until fairly recently, I have been moving forward from my loss, but it seemed I had to force myself to do so. Now I'm finding that I'm moving forward but with far less effort. I don't know if you will travel the same emotional journey as I, but if you do, then I can honestly say it does get easier. You'll not forget. You'll still have an unsatiated longing. But it does get easier. Well everyone - I think that responds to all. Thank you, once more, for your thoughts and for posting. I'm back. Long live the PC. See you all here and there in the DOL threads! Cheers! Erny!

Openarms. It does get easier. The emotions and things you describe are not unfamiliar to me. I didn't think I could ever get beyond the despair and anguish. You do. You will. Give it time and in that time be kind to yourself. You are recovering from shock and you are grieving. It is a huge emotional upheaval. Hang in there. Sleep softly, Daisy.

Bloss344. I'd suggest that, like any other case, your hypothetical would be taken on its own individual merits. Wearing a bandana (or other identifying object) does not preclude you from taking steps to keep appropriate distance. IMO, the onus to be responsible for your dog (knowing your dog's aggressive tendancies) rests with you. The bandana is simply a method used to try to help you out. If the incident such as you describe was to occur, I would probably be asking questions such as "were you aware of the other handler/dog combo breaching your dog's threshold limits?" and "what did you try to do to avoid the incident occurring?" Your answers to these questions would, I expect, go towards determining extent of liability/onus. Now, if you were unable to create distance yourself and you asked the other person to move/stay away but they didn't, this would balance responsibility in the other direction (IMO). Again - I'm no insurance expert nor a legal eagle .... just the way I would see it.

Hi Amhailte Good to see you and speak to you again! In regards to the above, I'm no insurance expert, but I do believe you're right. The circumstances of each individual incident would have to be taken into account and I would expect it would be the dog NOT under effective control which would be considered the offender in so far as your example situation is concerned.

The difference (from what I can tell) in the first two is the connection piece. The second one is a snap hook type ... the first one has a connection that is, IMO, less likely to accidentally release. The one in the third (and fourth) don't seem to be slip collars - they appear to be "fixed".

Is that just a personal preference, K9 .... or is there a particular reason/benefit it has over the others? - compared to the model in the second photo? Oops! Forget that question .... I've noted the snap hook connection compared to the one in the first photo.

In that respect, I think it boils down to each individual owner being responsible for their own dogs. If the injury occured due to negligence by the club, then that may be a different story. (Extreme example: Instructor advises known aggressive dog to be shoved right into the middle of a tight group of dogs.)

Erny: Sorry .... I meant I have seen the others (including covers .... ), but not the ones with the metal plate backing on them.

Aaahhh (sigh). Nothing nicer than a well-worked/used prong. The links soften with use. I admit to the difficulties of sizing and fitting a prong (especially a newish one) to a dog that is all over the place. Not that I do that here anymore. :D Ah ah Not here in Victoria. No idea. Wonder if the metal plates would heat up alot in the summer hot weather?

Rosie. How great thou' art. RIP ol' girl and enjoy the youthfulness the rainbow bridge grants you as you cross. Casper. Take care. :D

No .... it doesn't sound silly. I too heard my sweet, beautiful Kal's 'click' of nails on my wooden floors in the weeks following her leaving - enough to make me look around and then fall apart at the dawning that she wasn't and wouldn't be there. I too could not think of the good times, as it only made me miss her more and was like a knife twisting in an already raw wound. Even now, my tears will flow when I recall these things (sometimes the memory of certain but wonderful moments fill my mind with the quickness of a lightning bolt) and although I still yearn to have her with me, the gut twisting anguish is easing, slowly, bit by bit. I found comfort in speaking to Kal - I still do. I close my eyes and imagine her being there. In fact, I do believe she is. It has been solace to me to have been convinced that whilst she is gone from me she is simply in another place but not as apart as one might otherwise think. Have heart, Rusky for although you will never forget her and you will always miss her, time is kind and instead of feeling tortured by your emotion of loss you will come to be able to embrace it and cherish in the fact that you were blessed to have been able to know and love Cindy and to have shared the life journey she took with you. The sadness I think will always be there, but instead of it resting on a bed of nails, it will begin to feel as though it nestles on a soft warm cushion. I think this is when you will begin to feel peace and be able to place more store in having known Cindy, rather than having been departed from her. I hope that makes sense and I hope that I have not caused pain rather than comfort in my words. I am travelling the journey of emotion I have just described. That journey is not yet over for me, but I have become aware of its direction and it seems to be leading me out of and away from the dark abyss I found myself in, in the early weeks of my loss. I hope you are also thus guided.

By the sounds of it, you had a great result, Wabbit! Probably one notable difference to others here is the dramatic decrease in size of testicles. 75% reduction in size is probably a lot (I recall most others suggesting a one third reduction in size), but I presume that if the testicles fully return when the implant reaches its "use by" date, that wouldn't matter (especially if the dog is to be used for breeding purposes at a later date). Wabbit - when the effect of the implant expired and before you had your dog desexed, did you notice a return of his earlier behaviours?

K9 - I haven't done any formal 'studies' on them, but I've heard back from a reasonable number of people who have used them. Seems to me to be a bit "hit and miss" as far as results are concerned. And out of those "hits", the degree to which the DAP assisted varies greatly as well. Some of the results where the effect is less than obvious depends also on the owners being able to know and read their dogs well enough to detect the differences/changes in the dog's behaviour. Studies also get a bit tangled up with other behaviour modification methods that are put into place, so one might wonder if the result is that of the DAP or the efforts/changes to lifestyle etc. made by the owner to assist the dog. Of course, the only way to study the true effects of the DAP (IMO) is to plug it in and not make changes to anything else .... and then carefully observe. OR make behaviour modification attempts, introduce the DAP, remove the DAP and observe throughout. But then there could be coincidences that occur along the way that might lead one to believing DAP does or doesn't have an effect. My attitude to them is that there is no harm in employing one regardless. And when it comes down to behaviours that have high injurious potential, then I'd trying everything that is within reason for the dog's benefit. And the DAP is comparitively cheap enough to "give it a shot". I know this doesn't add anything to your studies - just my thoughts.

Ollie Ollie Ollie Oi Oi Oi Jodie - you've stood next to Ollie in all his ups and downs for so long. I envy you this extra time his treatment and your vigilant care has so deservedly provided you both, and I wish for you as much time as Ollie dog can and wants to give but I hope it can be yet considerably more. Cherish every week, every day, every hour and live it to the enth degree. Give Ollie dog a pat for me and :D to you. Come on Ollie, come on, come on .....

Thank you Denis. I have always referred to "stimulation" when it comes to talking about our modern day e-collars. Called it that because even when experimentally used on myself, it didn't feel like what I'd expect an "electric shock" to feel like. I have been told that e-collars have come along way, but didn't fully realise how much they have evolved. Thanks for clearing that up.

Try leaving it on the ground and putting her dinner bowl (with food) in its centre. If she's become REALLY scared of approaching it, then you can have the dinner bowl on the outside of the hoop and gradually work in. There is another way, and although I write it here I don't put it out as a suggestion for you to do as I have no way of knowing how big the fear your dog has developed to this, nor of your dog's liklihood towards reactivity. It is similar to how I have encouraged dogs to go through a tunnel (eg tyre). I have taken the dog and placed it as close to one side of the tyre as I could without the dog going into a total freak out. The dog's lead (a longer one than usual is preferable) is passed through the tyre. The owner takes the lead and calls/encourages the dog (with food/toy/voice) to go through. My job is to make sure the dog can't get to his owner by going around the tyre. In otherwords, the dog MUST make the decision to go through the tyre to reach its owner. Without fail, once a dog has made this decision, there is no looking back. Note that I do not push, force or shove the dog into the tunnel space - it must be his own decision. It's worked EVERY time for me. The danger will be for the assistant who is holding/blocking the dog's escape from going around the tyre/tunnel (in your case, the hoop). If the assistant does not have the knowledge of reading dogs behaviours and understanding the limits of thresholds, it could result in the dog using its teeth to beseech its escape. If you make the decision to do this particular exercise, and if your dog is REALLY spooked, try reaching your hand forward and feed a treat through the tyre/hoop. Do it again, but bring your hand in closer to you, so he/she needs to poke a nose through to reach it .... progress until he/she begins to understand the hoop won't bite. You MUST make sure the hoop is big enough for the dog to move through with ease. You MUST make sure that someone can assist to hold the hoop steady. And if you get back to him/her being able/willing to jump through, ALWAYS make sure the dog's approach is directly straight on. Otherwise serious injury can occur. ETA: You could also put the hoop flat down on the ground in a space where there is no choice other than to walk over it. Eg. Front door entrance, where you exit to go off for a walk (assuming your dog likes to go for walks). Another ETA - and this one counts for everyone to note: If your dog is or has become 'sooky' or scared over something, avoid inadvertently reinforcing the sooky/scared behaviour.

Get him to heel just two steps (or even one, if you're having that much trouble) .... and give him the treat. Use the lead a little for the first one or two goes, just to help him grasp the idea of the action that will get him the reward. Reward him for approximate behaviour (at least, not sitting but moving) and continue to reward him for improvements that continue to grow closer to what you actually want. Of course, don't forget verbal encouragement. Also, try not turning and looking at him too much - your body language could be acting as a 'blocker' to the forward movement you're actually after. The mere fact your dog is sitting to get his treat indicates he is at least motivated by them. It sounds to me that he's worked out in his mind what it is that gets him the treats, and that it isn't yet clear to him the new skills you're trying to achieve.

Visiting on a client and her dog we are working on issues with, at the moment. While we were talking, I noticed her JR happily chewing on a whole hoof (looked like a calf's hoof ... no meat/bone in it ... just the hoof). ETA: Thinking about it, perhaps not a calf's hoof. Don't remember seeing the cleft. But it was about the size of a calf hoof, anyway, and it was black. Seemed to me to be a pretty good thing for a dog to chew on .... it's something that takes some time to gnaw down and didn't seem to be leaving much, if any, mess around. I used to give pigs ears to my girl, but they only lasted 5 minutes and I wished I'd thought of 'whole hooves' while I still had her. Anyone got any opinions on 'whole hooves' as a chew item/treat?

Have you tried backing down on your dog's meals .... so he's a bit hungrier for the treats. And, as Dasha has suggested, try a variety of treats to see if there is a favourite amongst them. And give him 'easy wins' at first (eg. get him to do things he knows well), to strengthen his enthusiasm and motivation to work. I took your word for it that your dog has "low prey drive" and if that definately proves to be the case, I would stand by my first post to you regarding building up on pack drive, as that is what you seem to have. My girl (recently passed, bless her) was low in prey as well. The kindest and most honest soul you'd ever come across (IMO - of course, bias plays a part there ) and her most favourite thing was being around me. Must say I NEVER had any recall problems/issues EVER.

Whilst your dog may not have high prey drive, it sounds like he might have good pack drive. Build up on pack drive. Make your contact with him worth something (ie a reward). NILIF program (ie no freebies). Avoid overdoing the pats/attention unless it relates in some way to his training. Make contact with you something special and something for which he needs to work.

Maggie .... I humbly extend belated birthday wishes from this side of the rainbow bridge. I expect that every day in the warm sunshine and soft grass is a 'birthday' to you and that the vastness of earthly time is a mere eye blink to you. I hope that you have shared companionship with my girl Kal, who passed only 2 months ago and that you can both share in the comfort of each other's company until our own life's journey brings us home to you. IR - take the comfort that many others empathise and respect the sentimentalities of Maggie's birth anniversary. I am sorry not to have had the honour of meeting and knowing Maggie, but knowing you as I have come to do I can well imagine what a grand dog Maggie has been and will continue to be, in your heart. Erny.

I have a "new topic" all prepared. Just need to hit the "submit" button. To kick it off, I've included our initial paragraphs on the topic of 'alpha or not' by way of quotes. cavNrott's quotes, my quotes and a quote from Australdi. Is that ok? I'll hold off for a few moments in case any of cNr or Aus don't want their quotes pasted there (I've only selected the para's which are relevant to this NEW topic). That will then allow this topic to keep on track. Just espied the new posts that've come in since I've been busy preparing the new topic. Those concerned, can we PLEASE not argue. Keep it calm. Agree to disagree. Concede a point when there is one to concede. Don't get hot under the collar in EITHER thread. Oops! Seems everyone's gone to bed! Good thing - I should too. But I put a bit of work into cutting and pasting to form the new topic. Don't want to waste it so will go ahead. Hope nobody minds. HERE's the link to the new thread for those who might be interested. Sorry (again) Sunny. This might at least allow your thread to go back to and remain ON topic. ;)

(sorry, Sunny). ..... Hi cNr. I guess it boils down to our own personal perceptions of "Alpha". I see the Alpha as the one who has proven a leadership in which the 'pack' can trust. A leadership that whilst it contains the privileges of governing, also contains the responsibility of protection to the members of the pack. In carrying out the role of "Alpha" fairly, I believe it also earns the Alpha the respect from the others. I don't regard it as a role by which the "Alpha" is forever domineering or lording it over the others (and in fact, I don't believe that's what an Alpha in a wild wolf pack would do either). Hhhmmm - doesn't matter, really, does it. Was just interested, though .... so thanks for sharing.

I'm not sure what "individual training programs" you recommended .... perhaps I got lost in your posts there. The most of what I recall reading (and to what I have responded to for the OP's clarity) is the recommendation to (in essence) growl at the pup and remove its food from it. You're right there, Australdi. It is simple when you know how. But because people first have to come to grips with the concept of thinking as our dogs do (rather than presuming they think as we do) and because animal behaviour and its responses are fluid rather than static, it can be pretty daunting to some at first. This is why seeing someone demonstrate it and then owners doing it with personal coaching is the best, easiest and IMO in this case the safest way to go for all concerned. Hopefully, the parents have the time to put in ..... and that goes for saying regardless of what breed of dog/pup they have.