Erny

UPDATE We're almost at the 6 week mark with the Hills Science Z/D diet. Poops have been very regularly good (firm; regular). There's been some where he has strained and has actually whimpered as it came through ( sorry if too much info), but other than that and a couple of times earlier in the piece a bit of constipation, it's been pretty good. Mandela still goes on and off the food - sometimes eating very enthusiastically, sometimes not so enthusiastic and sometimes not at all until later. Occasionally not at all until the next or the next day. He doesn't eat the quota (eating about half to 2/3rds of suggested amount) suggested by the feeding guide and usually will only eat what he does if I have mixed a can of the Z/D with the kibble. I haven't weighed him but going by looks his weight seems to have been reasonably constant (albeit that he is still and always lean). Of course losing in those times of non-eating and then re-gaining. But never does seem to manage to get past a certain point. It's just when he's beginning to look close to what I would regard as optimum, and then he'd go off the food for a bit. He has done the same with everything else I have ever fed him as well, with some of those food stuffs being food he now flat out refuses to eat. I decided that it was about time I had his faeces checked for worm presence (some of you might remember that I've said I don't worm Mandela - except for the puppy worming regime, which I did follow). I didn't think there would be any but I thought it would be vigilant of me to check and make sure this was again covered. It's just a basic check so for this I just poked my head (and the poop bag with poop) into the local Vet where I've been purchasing his Z/D from, rather than travel to the Vet who is his current primary carer. Well, when I made my request I also mentioned about checking for Giardia. This led to it being a case of "but wait, there's more" and when the Vet mentioned a particular test that would check all of what I wanted as well as something about 'protein', I went and gave the nod for this more extensive test to be done. I've just been informed the results via the phone today and it turns out that whilst there is no evidence of parasitic activity or presence, the laboratory noted a higher than preferred level of undigested fats. The Vet said that if it wasn't for the fact that his poops have been good, he'd be suggesting EPI as a very possible diagnosis. When Mandela was about 10 (or was it 15) months old, I'd already had bloods to check pancreatic enzyme levels. The results from that were "unremarkable". The Vet at the time (Dr Bruce Syme) also thought it was something else to do with the pancreas (I can't remember the techno name) but it involved a TLI (blood test). Both of us were surprised when this also came back as normal. The Vet who rang me with the recent faecal results has suggested I weigh Mandela regularly and also watch his poops (the latter being pretty much a "my life" description already ). He said that if Mandela loses weight and if his poop goes sloppy, then EPI would be his diagnosis (or at least suggested diagnosis subject to further investigation I presume). I will begin (again) to weigh him regularly but I'm not quite sure what to make of this because his weight always seems to slide up and then slide back down before it then slides back up again. And weight loss doesn't always marry with sloppy poo. In fact I've had times when he's almost looked his peak when his poop has been sloppy. So I guess I have another piece of the puzzle to add to Mandela's health riddle, something to put in store and bear in mind as I continue to closely monitor him.

.... thanks. I'm sure to use it .

Gosh! I've never known this to occur before. I don't have a white dog but he has got a white patch on his chest and even a full body rinse hasn't turned that yellow. I've used it on my own skin as well, without any discolouration issues. Anyone else have this experience? It will be handy for me to know so that I can inform people. How much of the tea to how much water did you use, Dancinbcs? And what brand, if you don't mind me asking?

Well done and congratulations, Bernadette . I know for a fact how dedicated Bernadette is to everything she turns her hand and mind to.

No ..... but he has a truck load of experiences supported by loads of successes and that is something which gives me the confidence to recommend him. I'm certain that if he thought drug therapy was necessary he would refer. Not to forget the fact that this might not be SA (I've already raised that in my earlier post). The dog is older, for sure, but change in older dogs is still very possible (without drug therapy) and I know that myself through first hand experiences as well. And I'm not a Veterinary Behaviourist either.

The only person that I know in NSW and whom I could confidently recommend for the job is Steve Courtney - K9 Pro K9 Pro . Dogtech is a franchise company. It's not the name of the company that counts, it is the person behind it .... the one who sees you and your dog. Consequently I couldn't recommend the company as I don't know the experience of the person concerned. I would suggest this (refer my highlight) probably has a large part to do with it, if not being fully responsible for it. That's why I'm suggesting you see someone who would be able to confirm one way or the other and set you on the right path. You could try a couple of things though (but you'll need to be persistent and consistent or it will fail) .... Ignore Joey for a full 30 minutes before leaving. Make no fuss about going. Ignore Joey on your return. Wait until he tires of trying to get your attention (could take a while initially, given he's learnt the opposite, but once he realises his over the top excitement won't work, he'll give up. Once he's given up and gone somewhere else, leave him be for 60 seconds and provided he's not tried to get your attention by being over the top again in the meanwhile, bend down to his level and call him over. Keep it calm, but you are then free to interact with him. Follow the NILIF program (Nothing In Life Is Free). This is about giving Joey jobs to do before you do anything for him. Basic sit; drop; rollover; shake paw; ..... randomise what you ask for depending on what he knows, what you're in the midst of teaching him and how much time you have. Note that "ignore" means "no speak; no touch and NO EYE CONTACT". The Triangle of Temptation (TOT) is another great program to use. Refer to the pinned items at the top of the Training Forum here. I think you've done well to ask first. Sure - it could turn out to be a simple solution and a happy ending for you, but if it doesn't, it will mean double trouble. So you've taken a very first wise step in checking things out first.

How long after you leave does she continue to go (as you put it) "mental"? How long after you return does it take for her to settle down? Who gave your dog the diagnosis of "Separation Anxiety"? I think THAT needs sorting (ie whether it is really SA or not) before any one can help with your question about getting a second pup/dog. Succinctly though - yes, behaviours can be learnt by one from another. On the other hand, for true SA cases, the addition of another animal can assist. But SA being the condition that it is may not be helped at all by the addition of another animal. SA is over diagnosed IMO and people tend to think that any anxiety that happens when people leave has to be SA. That's not as often the case as you might think, which is a good thing and this is why I suggest initialising with the above questions. A visit by a behaviourist might be what you need and it might prove best if you do this before getting a pup because if there is something that you might be doing that you would be best not be doing or vice versa, it will be much much easier to solve the existing dog's problem before introducing a second dog. The second dog might learn off the first and might also be affected by things you are doing and which could be done differently.

Turn this natural inclination into doggy dancing . Good work. Glad it is all going well for you.

What OSoSwift said. Also, as a rule of thumb you shouldn't consider your puppy house trained until there have been no accidents in the house for a total period of 4 weeks in a row. And that's without you needing to guide puppy out etc. So don't drop your guard and get all relaxed and nonchalant about it this early in the piece. Loosen off the reigns gradually but keep watching like a hawke. Even after the 4 weeks, you need to keep an eye on the environment. For example : your puppy might have gone for 4 weeks with no accidents but now the weather is different (windy/wet; something pup's not used to is happening outside). Back up a bit and go back a step in training to make sure pup understands about going outside regardless. Also, keep up with the treating for going outside. And also keep up with training word association to a toilet command (eg "Quick Quick"). Every time you don't go outside with your pup for toileting is a training opportunity missed.

No. You hold the tug and make it 'alive' once you've said her release word "break", then enter the game of tug.

Yes - try this. Tell her the release word and leave her to it. Sounds to me as though she's learnt that you need to keep saying it for every hesitant approach she makes and you're reinforcing that belief by continuing to iterate the release. Although you can use any word you want (eg. banana; letterbox; etc) generally speaking "give" is the word you use to get her to relinquish the item to you, not a "release" word and in this I think you might be confused. When we talk about "release words" or "release commands" that would be the equivalent to your word "break". So, use "break" as the word that will come to mean "you can go for the tug now". Use the word "finish" when you want to finish up the game. Make the tug game short and finish whilst she still wants more.

How hesitant? If the word itself really is a big problem to her, then I might change it, if it were me. But if it is just hesitation and then goes to the food, I'd stick with the word. Just release to the food and then leave her rather than standing there to watch her. Also - if she'll play with toys, teach her 'tug' and use "break" as her release word. This should be quite an active game yet a short one. Is something that she might engage in without hesitating and can also help build confidence. ETA: Sorry - just read MRB's post and see that she's already mentioned playing tug.

All I'd suggest you concern yourself and your dog with at the moment is the initial phase of TOT. Keep it really basic. IE Your dog must wait (so tie out if you must) and must make eye contact with you. At the very second of eye contact say "yes" and "free" (or whatever your release command is) and in that very instance release her to let her have her meal. Just use some patience until she catches on. Wait next to her. Give her a minute to think it out. Some dogs will make the eye contact just because they are wondering what the heck you are doing (or why you are not doing anything ...... they are so used to us being impatient, lol). But if she doesn't offer the eye contact you can help her out by making a noise (click your tongue or something) to encourage her to look up. If she's not a dog that will easily make eye contact, then you can reward ("yes" and "free" .... and let her have her meal) if she turns her head in your general direction; or glances in your general direction. And then bit by bit making it so that she will actually make the eye contact.

It's a myth to think that dogs must have been beaten; smacked; or hit by the human hand if they cringe to a raised arm etc. I know of dogs who have never been hit with the hand but shy away from a hand or arm that is raised or moves too fast.

A duck. That's the best . Had a pet duck when I was a kid ("Sir Lance A Luck Van Ducksy"). We actually ran out of snails and I used to go snail hunting in other people's property (with permission) to feed her. Back then hardly anyone used snail bait as almost everyone had a dog.

Ok .... have a look at the "Triangle of Temptation" (TOT) program pinned at the top of this training forum. Follow that as a guide. What I'd look for first is merely her learning to engage eye contact (focus) and build up on that. You should find that following the program (I haven't read it for a while so I can't remember how far it actually explains to .... but it is pretty much "the sky is the limit" in terms of what you can do with it) you will enhance training skills and pack drive. But start little. Make it easy for your girl to win. That will encourage her to begin to try. Still do the "agility" (so to speak) exercise I mentioned. And also, a run in the rain can be loads of fun, even for dogs who would otherwise cringe at a single rain drop falling on their back. The trick is to make it active and fast .

Does she readily eat her meals when you leave them for her?

Even before I reached this post, I was already wondering if Lexi has worked out that surrendering IS the way to winning (her perception of "win" anyway). Try some "agility" work. This doesn't need to be elaborate - even something like a sturdy, strong wooden or plastic storage box will do it to begin with. Tell her "hup!" and when she's up, offer the food reward and praise. If she doesn't want the food, don't worry about it. Just keep smiling and tell her how very clever she is. Puff out your chest to show how proud you are of her talent. Then indicate to get down and tell her "off". Repeat with the praise but no food. Repeat "hup" and offer food and praise. Continue with two or three of these repeats.

"Tune-ups" are generally required, but IME if the former training was solid; ingrained; reliable (IOW some reason why the dog would harbour second thoughts) you generally get some indication of the inclination towards the behaviour resuming. This might be just ways the dog poises; looks; some sort of hesitation. That would be the time for a "tune-up" (test and reminder). I would suggest that under the circumstances of the country drive-way and chasing cars it would be reasonably do-able. "Forever" without any follow-up training ever wasn't what I was talking about in terms of reliability. And I have found in my small amount of experience in training for complete avoidance/abstinence that e-collar training results in less in between tune-ups being required. ETA: How often did you find your "follow-ups" with the e-collar needed to be in your situation, Aidan?

Have one of them here. Sometimes it is to elicit interaction. Sometimes it is initially just exploratory. He just loves using his nose to poke things. Which is why it was so easy to shape "close the cupboard please".

If the pound couldn't be certain though, isn't there a blood test that can determine one over the other?

My disclaimer is that I haven't met you nor your dog. But with that said, my answer to you is that I don't think it is ever too late to make things better for a 'troubled' dog. I expect you will see improvement and that will most likely be a reflection of your dog's increased faith that you will take steps (ie strategies) to ensure his safety, but after all these years I doubt very much that you'll end up with a dog that you'll be able to trust around people or other dogs. But with controls in place, you might find you can more easily enjoy the company of other people in the proximity of your dog. Very difficult to say without knowing your dog and this is something that only a consult would give a glimpse to. I would also expect your dog to recognise a new found level of leadership in you as well - and that would be very welcoming by an ageing dog. Like taking a load of responsibility off him. So if the question was : "Do you think there is any worthwhile gain in seeing a Behaviourist and working on the current behaviour issue (whether that be at behaviour and/or management level)?" the answer is a resounding "yes". It will take effort from you though. It sounds to me as though you love your dog enough to do it and regardless of anything else you will most likely learn a mountain's worth of knowledge and experience from it and potentially also set you up well for when one day you have another dog.

I agree with Nekhbet. Good e-collar training would be the way to go with this one. It's an exercise fraught with 'life, injury or death'. Would you trust your clicker training enough to "snake proof" your dog? That's similar.

No - it's great that you are stepping out and asking for help. Don't know what sort of 'help' you received at the outset and not inclined to ask because I think under the circumstances it will prove irrelevant for this thread. If I had a dog with aggro issues I couldn't deal with I'd be knocking on Steve's door as well. With the co-operation of the dog's owners he's renowned for having many successful (even trying) cases.

Sorry Alfie02 .... but from what you've written in your OP this is not a "change of attitude". I took it that it is an attitude that has simply been progressively worsening. Having said that, a change to hearing and sight can serve to amplify reactions but I wouldn't put them down as the cause as you've written that the cause has been there for a very long time. Apologies to Showdog - don't mean to be jumping in on the question as it was directed towards you, but I don't think that this dog's behaviour should be attributed to sight and hearing changes. Being 11yo and being a dog who has behaved the way he has from puppy age it is unlikely that a lot will be able to be achieved towards behaviour modification but that is not to say that inroads to improvement are out of the question and as I mentioned, techniques/strategies for management (both at home and out) will assist. As part of your leadership for your dog you will need to take into account that he doesn't see nor hear as well these days and stand in and up for him (ie protect him) from things he thinks could harm him.