Kelpie-i

Cavalier, where are you located? Sounds like a particular suburb in Melbourne!

I am not sure Stormie and am just relaying the info that was passed on. I am, in no way, an expert on the subject. He mentioned the problems with commercial brand dog food, not raw diet and I would suspect that a raw diet would have a good balance of all the nutrients required if done correctly.

One by one jackpotting is said to give the same type of 'rush' to a dog that we humans get when we win a jackpot at the pokies. The coins usually fall from the machine one by one in quick succession. The sound of the coins dropping in succession have been found to cause a sort of endorphin rush (feel good) feeling which results in a psychological 'high'. I believe the dogs would get the same sort of feeling. I'm not sure if winning jackpots at the pokies would make me a better pokies player, but it would certainly keep me addicted and wanting more.

I'll be looking at getting him back into swimming once I have consulted with the vet. He used to love it and I think it will help him. He's been on cartrophen for a number of years now but we never 'upped' the frequency as he has been fine with the dosage up until now. Don't get me wrong, he is still mobile but with much more effort involved and the stiffening in his back legs is very evident. Poor baby...I feel so sorry for him and so useless as well. He's my number no.1 dog....my 'right hand man' who still helps me with puppy socialisation most weeks. KL, I love old dogs too....they are very noble and if only they could speak.... I'm sure they'd tell many stories of the good ole days!

Sagittarian, I am extremely suspicious of dog food companies who give 'nutrition' seminars also. They are almost always one-side. The seminar was with Prof Ray Coppinger who is a professor of biology and specialises in the study of dogs. One part of his studies is based on the development and accommodative nature of the dog's structure, which is inclusive of their diet. In very brief and not verbatim: Most believe that dogs should eat like wolves (their ancient ancestor) but in reality dogs, (based on the early protodogs before we domesticated them) were scavengers and their diet was very different to that of wolves. To hunt prey animals was very taxing on energy and when food was scarce, scavenging became the easiest (and less energy consuming) option to obtain food for these early dogs. As such, they would scavenge the dumps of the early villagers where they would eat anything they found, ie food scraps and also faeces (of other dogs and humans) which is why some dogs are copraphagic. Anyway, since our dogs are direct descendants of the protodog (who evolved from wolves thousands of years prior), their diet is similar to theirs (minus the faeces of course!) He also studies the accommodative nature of bone development and growth, which is where he stated about the high protein based diets which can be quite harmful if given in high levels to growing puppies. Diets based on protein soley cause bone deformaties due to the accelerated growth produced by protein. Puppies fed a high calorie/lower protein diet grew at a slower rate and as such, allowed the growth of the bones to accommodate into the dog's structure. Protein is certainly important for growing puppies but he believes that many commercial brand dog foods contain protein levels that are way too high. There were other things he spoke about but I would have to dig into my notes. It was very interesting and he showed slides and film of development deformaties based on various things. It wasn't all about diet but it was a major component. After all that, if whatever you are doing is working, then that is the main thing.

I have just spoken with my vet and she will be coming out to see him nxt week. She does accupuncture as well so we will be combining meds and accupuncture. I have also been recommended to see a person who specialises in alternative therapies, so will definitely look into this too. I'm sure a good combination of everything will help ease his discomfort and pain. Thanks for all your replies.

Funny you say that Sagittarian...at a seminar I attended in the States last year, they spoke of this very thing and it was actually the high protein diets that can cause the bone overgrowth as this is the element that grows bones. Too much protein causes the bones to grow too quickly which does not allow accommodation, causing HD and other nasties. They mentioned that puppies (especially large breeds) need a higher calorie intake as opposed to a higher protein intake. (??) Mim, I am not a diet specialist but I would highly recommend Eagle Pack. Problem is, it's becoming increasingly difficult to get Eagle Pack here in Oz, especially the Holistic variety.

Yes I have definitely noticed that he gets worse during the change of seasons, especially before summer time. I wonder why that would be? Thanks heaps for the suggestions guys. I think increasing the cartrophen shots may be the go, he seems to do well with those and obviously 6 monthly shots are no longer adequate. KL, I will ask my vet about the Previcox, sounds like it may help him on his bad days. Cavs, yes the mixture has MSM and Condroitin (sp) as well. He's definitely not as mobile as he was this time last year and I try to exercise him lightly but he insists on chasing the kelpies every now and again which I don't think is a good idea. But if I don't let him out into the paddock with the others, he stresses, cries and paces up and down. A bit of tough love is the go I think.....(should take some of my own advice for a change ) I was also thinking of some gentle swimming sessions. Would this help or worsen?

Hi everyone My very old GSD boy has been suffering from arthritis for a while now. He currently gets 6 monthly shots of cartrophen and I give him glucosamine mix with his meal each night. I also give him an asprin each day to help ease the pain (as per Vet's advice). Over the last few weeks I have noticed some further deterioration in his movement. He was able to get up (albeit slowly) and move around okay but I notice that this is becoming increasingly difficult for him of late and he is dragging his feet more often. He still runs around the paddocks, but this is minimal and will then plonk down with a groaning sound where he will sit for a while as he recovers. Is there anything else I could be doing/giving him to help him? Any advice would be great. I will be talking with my Vet soon but am not sure if there is anything else (drugs wise) that will help.

Well that's a good thing...at least it's ruled that out. Did they give you any indication into what they will be testing for next? I know full well how expensive blood tests and everything involved costs. It's times like these when you wish you had insurance for your dogs. Hopefully they will find something which is easily treated with simple meds....fingers crossed for you PandaGirl.

You're in a little bit of a tough situation then since most of the suggestions are out of the question. As Erny said, you need to be with the dog in order to make him stop which is not possible when he is in the back of your ute. The only other way is to break the habit by putting him the car with you, at least whilst you are traveling and then transfer him to the canopy when you need to pop out of the car for whatever reason. It's a bit of juggling, but you are removing him from the the stimuli and triggers that are keeping the behaviour alive and well. What's wrong with pretty curtains?

The more he does it, the better he gets at it.. I would guess that the visual is also a contributing factor, any way you could block off the visual aspect of it? Perhaps some pretty curtains Seriously, try blocking his view and see if that changes anything.

Hang in there PandaGirl. I'm sure you'll find out soon enough. Let us know what the outcome is.

Found this link about Addisons disease: Addisons disease Agree with persephone, this is a medical problem, not a behavioural one. Her aggression is probably due to the fact that she feels lousy!

Sorry I just noticed that she has HIGH potassium, not low potassium. The blood scan should come up with something. Off to google seach...

Thanks PandaGirl. Apart from checking for bladder problems, did the vet run a full blood scan? Is she drinking more than usual? Has the vet checked for diabetes? She's losing potassium due to losing too much body fluids. Potassium loss is very dangerous in humans, I would guess it might be the same for dogs. Has the vet prescribed Vitamin K for potassium loss?

Pandagirl, I am not a vet but am curious as to her symptoms. Could you list them? I gather aggression is one of them!?

In triplicate please

That's odd Sardog, I thought he was away overseas until next week

We've used a tomato sauce squeezie plastic bottle filled with cream cheese for dogs wearing muzzles (to get through the gaps) and cheap around $2 from the $2 Shop, so I can't see why you could not use this if you are outdoors and don't want to keep dunking a spatula into the cream cheese bottle. Cheese sticks also work well as you can mush in your hand... Treat only need to be small and if using a solid piece of food, it should be no bigger than the size of your finger nail on your little finger (provided you don't have large fingers and/or long nails )

Erny, yes the meds have been ordered and should be received this week. However, the owner consulted with her "regular" vet and showed him the report by Dr Dodds and he stated that he didn't agree with it and that the meds could make things worse. He suggested she spend another $90 doing a full blood check up via his clinic. I suggested that she sees Dr Bruce Syme and asks his opinion instead. Interesting but certainly not surprising. Gabe is booked in for bloods this Thursday and I believe his brother is also going to undergo the test...since they all share the same traits. We learned late last week that the dam's mother had been PTS due to increased aggression (to both dogs and humans) and that ALL of the other puppies from the litter which the dam came from are all in doggy heaven as well due to the same reasons. So the mother (dam) is the only 'surviving' dog out of the entire litter and was bred from. Very frigthening.

luvsablue, welcome to the world of dog training forums

SNT, here are the suggested meds but am not sure exactly what the vet will actually provide since medications can go by different names. She is currently on the hunt for a vet who is willing to prescribe the meds based on the report. X Thyroid levels are too low. Recommend 6-8 weeks of Soloxine® or equivalent product at 0.1mg per 12 - 15 lbs twice daily (e.g. ?? weight mg BID), followed by retesting thyroid profile 4-6 hours post-pill to monitor response levels. Dose at optimum weight. Optimal therapeutic response levels should be in the upper 1/3 to 25% above the upper limits of the resting optimal ranges at 4-6 hours post-BID thyroid medication. Owner states that the whole procedure, ie drawing bloods, Fedex shipping and testing cost $200.

With permission from Enry to post on this thread. On the subject of hypothyroidism and it's relationship with aggressive behaviour etc and based on the subject of this thread, I thought some of you might be interested in the following: My dog's sister was recently tested for hypothyroid by Dr Jean Dodds in America. The symptoms that this dog originally presented were: Extreme aggression towards other dogs Nervous disposition/high stress levels Continous scratching /some skin problems Intolerance of cold weather The owner of the dog is a dog trainer and of course was extremely upset when most of the rehabilitation methods were not working as well as she would have liked to and the dog's aggression levels escalated in some situations. As a puppy, we knicknamed her "Chlomi", short for Chlomicalm due to her nervous disposition. Anyway, I posted in this thread a few pages ago that the owner had decided to send bloods off for testing by Dr Jean Dodds in the USA and the tests have come back with a low thyroid function. Test Requested Results Reference Range Units T4 Please note new FT4 Ranges T4 ↓ 1.32 0.80 – 3.80 μg/dL FREE T4 Free T4 ↓ 0.87 0.55 – 2.32 ng/dL T3 T3 48 30 - 70 ng/dL FREE T3 Free T3 2.1 1.6 – 3.5 pg/mL THYROGLOBULIN AUTOANTIBODIES Thyroglobulin Autoantibody < 1 NEGATIVE % ------------TGAA CONFIRMATORY TEST INTERPRETATION ------------ < 10% = Negative; 10%-25% = Equivocal; > 25% = Positive Elevated TGAA levels confirm autoimmune thyroiditis. False positive results can occur if the dog has been vaccinated for rabies within 30 to 40 days. Thyroid hormone supplementation can decrease TGAA levels. Performed using the preferred Non-Specific Binding (NSB) Method. 15 October 2009 Dear Kate: Thyroid levels are too low here, and support the clinical & behavioral signs. TGAA is normal, so thyroiditis is not the reason for the hypothyroidism. Jean Adult Optimal Levels T4 1.50 – 3.80 μg/dL FT4 0.74 - 2.33 ng/dL T3 40 – 70 ng/dL FT3 1.6 - 3.5 pg/mL X Thyroid levels are below minimal expectations for a healthy performance adult (at least 1.3 µg/dL for T4 and 0.85 ng/dL for FT4). The owner showed these results to a local vet here in Melb (who quickly skimmed over them), to which the vet stated that these levels are "normal" and that the dog couldn't possibly have hypothyroidism as it wasn't overweight and lethargic. The dog will be started on the medication suggested by Dr Dodds and we will be monitoring progress which I will post here from time to time. I find it quite interesting that the vet stated that the ranges were 'normal' when Dr Dodd's report states that they are "too low". My own dog (brother to this dog) also has high aggression levels and also shows the following symptoms: Itchy, flaky skin - very dull coat despite being on an excellent diet Intolerance to exercise - fatigues extremely easily Hyperactivity Nervous disposition (not as bad as his sister) Aggression (as mentioned) I will be getting him tested as well and it will be interesting to see what the results will be since this condition is inherited.

Agree with Erny. Predatory behaviour is not aggression. Predatory behaviour is a sequence of behaviours used to capture and bring down the prey item. Different breeds have been bred to display various stages of this instinct. A seminar I attended with Prof Ray Coppinger provided a very good table of this 'bred for' instincts in a number of breeds. Herding breeds rounding up and/or chasing people is not aggression, it's predatory drift... as is nipping ankles and stalking. Schutzhund dogs doing bite work are not aggressively "attacking" the decoy, they are capturing him/her to bring them down as they would prey. This is why the bite needs to be deep in the mouth and the dog usually holds onto one spot and shakes the 'victim', and this is why high drive (not highly aggressive) dogs are chosen for this field. Aggression, which is used to repel the threat and for self preservation is used when there is an element of fear (or anxiety...call it what you will). This behaviour is extremely different to what you may see in a herding trial and/or the Schutzhund ring. The dog's intentions are to protect itself, bites are normally shallow and are numerous all over the victims body. The dog's aim is to maim/injure and/or repel the threat. The attack normally occurs after a warning growl and body posturing, although the use of heavy corrections sometimes eliminates all warnings and the dog simply lunges out without warning. Cosmolo, I think that's probably all that you are seeing....a dog that has become confident with his behaviour. I don't think he would be less fearful of that which originally caused the fear, rather that his actions work for him (self rewarding) so his confidence level in protecting himself increases. I don't actually believe in "dominance aggression" since a truly dominant dog doesn't usually need to attack unless defending his status or protecting a resource. I would call it more "middle rank aggression" since it's normally middle management that are trying to work their way up that cause upsets and bully others. These sort of dogs are not natural born leaders and will always "fight" due to their natural lack of confidence. A rank dog is almost always cool, calm and collected, with nothing much to prove.