Kelpie-i

Well with being busy running a business etc, my only achievements with my boy for this year have been... Teaching him basic manners, especially around other dogs! Entering him in his first trial (no placings but he completed the course) Next year my aim is to beat Jesomil's dog at Welshpool...

Cosmolo, you could go either providing that the school provides the dog and owner with a structured/tailored program and does not throw the dog into the thick. It is a lot easier to change a puppy's emotions than it is to change an adult dog's.

Husky87, no it doesn't mean that Cherry is relinquishing her pack status. There can be many reasons why she has allowed Daisy to eat from her bowl. Some older dogs grant young pups with a "puppy permit", meaning they allow the pup to do certain things that they would not normally allow them to do as grown dogs. Some dogs just don't see their food bowl as a high resource, and as such will allow others to eat from it. Was Cherry fed en-masse as a pup?? This would probably answer some of the questions. You will find that Cherry will communicate to Daisy what she can and cannot do, the rules of which will change from day to day. Don't try to analyse it too deeply, just enjoy them.

schnauzermum, Haven is correct. You need to attend a school with structured socialisation/desensitisation program for your pup. This sort of problem is not something that can be fixed in just a few sessions with just 1 or 2 different dogs, but one that requires a SLOW but steady introduction to many different dogs in different situations etc. Continue with the NILIF and TOT programs as these will provide you with good leadership skills in the meantime.

Don't you just love it when they offer you their entire repertoire of tricks just to get that click/treat happening!!! Have been working on the following with two of my dogs: Jumping through my arms (a little difficult coz I need an extra person to help with this one) Leg lifts (ie. sort of doggy dancing style). Both of these are still "green" but we are working on perfecting them. I only wish I had more time in the day to work with them....hey, no time like the present!!!

DD, you are using the ear pinch to teach the dog the retrieve, not as a correction for not retrieving. This is the difference. Sorry, but IMO, I feel the ear pinch method is completely unnecessary. I remember having my ear pinched as a young mischievious child and it bloody hurt!

I can't really see the reason behind forced retrieves, especially those involving ear pinches and the like. I'm like K9 in that if the dog doesn't retrieve using motivation, then either use another dog or try a different exercise. I know the method used by Steve Austin and it certainly isn't a bad sort of method compared to some. But I have also seen the ear pinch and thought it was absolutely outrageous - all in the name of an obedience title.

I know what you mean about being shy, it's not like to me just to wonder up to people an ask "Are you a DOLer?" Terra is a beautiful boy - he caught my attention! Yes Gabe is one of Herding-guy's pups - they are all psycho just like their father Still young and stupid. We were stoked with Tasha's jumping performance - that was her first competition jump. The first time she jumped was at Casterton where she bombed out after 2 jumps. You're right the City Slickers seemed to be the most popular event this year. It's a pity it was quiet since it's a great weekend. I don't think there was too much media hype about it beforehand, which is probably why many people didn't know about it.

Hey Jesomil, are you the person with Terra??? If so, he's gorgeous!! I was there with my OH and our two Kelpies. I ran my pup in the City Slickers - he was the one that decided to take a nature break in the 3rd yard.... Our black/tan bitch Tasha came third in the Working Dog category of the high jump and third in the City Slickers comp. We didn't enter her into Encourage as we weren't there on Saturday. I found this year to be particularly quiet compared to other years - what did you guys think??

It was about 2003 or thereabouts when the legislation was passed. Erny if you could get hold of those subs, that would be great. If not, we may have to put some new ones together. Can we set up a meeting with everyone who wants to be involved so that we can map out what to do? Probably somewhere central - anyone live centrally who is willing to accommodate or know of a place we could utilise for a meeting? We could even meet at a cafe somewhere and discuss over coffee. What do you guys think?

Re my suggestion about the plastic prong..... Okay okay, bad idea!!! There are so many good points raised in this thread and I think you should all get together and nut them out on paper and present it. Actually there are some trainers/behaviourists on this committee, they are members of the PDTA (or something like that)....they also run a well known dog training school in various locations around Melbourne. It's a pity that they either didn't make an impact or perhaps didn't even try- who knows!! Seriously guys, stop talking and start doing.....when do we start!!

Naah, I reckon she/he is still lurking in the dark shadows......pretty much where his or her mind is as well.

I remember when they were just about to bring the new legislation into play...we were desperately rounding up as many testimonials on the prong collar as we could. I even knew of a few people who were willing to march into the Minister's office with their super pulling dogs on flat collars just to prove their point - but unfortunately I don't think the deciders were willing to look past the hype. I agree with Enry in that the only way we will probably achieve this is by suggesting they be made available for resitricted use. I think the first step is a letter to the Animal Advisory Board of Vic along with heaps of testimonials. It probably wouldn't hurt to add in some facts and figures about the prong collar and invite a discussion from these people. Maybe ask Hugh Wirth out for dinner??? Sorry, couldn't help myself just then. Perhaps try to introduce the plastic prong first on a restricted basis and then slowly work towards the metal variety??

Hey Erny So glad to see you back and I am happy to hear that you've decided on the S&R and new puppy. I'm sure both will bring you much deserved joy. PS, we'll have to organise lunch very soon!!!

Hi Vicki......you pose a great question and discussion. I think that Haven has hit the nail when she states that the reward values change depending on the work/ability to work. Although let me pose this one to you......what starts out as an extremely self rewarding action in the beginning for the dog ie. running agility, may later on become more of a "job", which the dog still enjoys, but it may require some extra form of reward in order for the dog to continue the "work" effectively. What do you think? BTW, my boy is both food and tug crazy and will do anything for both. However, when it comes to sheep, everything fades in comparison. His ultimate reward is to work the sheep. However, he doesn't see sheep every day so each time he sees them, he can't wait to get in. I wonder if this would be the case if he was made to work sheep each and every day??? Would he still find sheep rewarding or do they just become part of a normal day?

Superminty, couldyou give me the name of number of the other person you go and see as I would be interested in taking my boy there to see what he'd be like on different sheep.

Thanks jesomil! Superminty, Cash's ears are both up - Gabe's are still trying to decide which way they will point :rolleyes: HG, Mouse is not ugly....he's gorgeous!

Who's pic are you referring to Jesomil??? Would you belive that the pup in Superminty's avatar and the pup in mine are brothers!

There ain't nothing wrong with getting your suburban dog out and working - thanks to the growing popularity of herding, there will be many a dog who feel that they have a purpose in life, rather than just guard the concrete backyard!

How to stop your dog from digging and make him hate you in one easy lesson!!!!

Very interesting piece Denise, I didn't know that about wasps!! My 7 month old Kelpie has a strong presence, shows eye (but is not sticky) and definitely goes to the head. As HG knows, he has a habit of snapping at the sheep at times, albeit we have only ever worked him on no more than 5 sheep and I hope that we can stop him from this. I also have a corgi x who, when going for a walk off lead, will "drive" us, but put her in with sheep in a round pen and she's a "crash bash" sort of dog. Were corgi's more a driving dog than gathering?? Jesomil, I think the word here is "outlet"...we are giving the drive to chase an outlet - we can control the urge to chase to a certain degree using obedience, but sooner or later and in some situations the urge/drive will become too strong and if left unguarded, the dog will give chase. I know of a dog who chased sheep (not a herding dog) and terrorised them. The owners used obedience to gain a solid "stay" and "leave it" command and also deployed the use of an e-collar which helped the situation for a while, but the urge to chase was so strong that the dog took to chasing the sheep, regardless of the level of stim applied.

Thanks CNR, I know what a martingale is.

Kace, please don't "skip" Haven's comments as they are extremely important especially if your dog is growling back at you. This is a sure sign of brewing leadership issues which may worsen as he gets older. I suggest you google the word NILIF and follow the program like a religion.

Yes, but the one with the thicker, layered martingale section, rather than just links as per the original prong.

I do like the look of the martingale type - very stylish! K9 any chance of bringing some new ones over for a squizz??