Security Handling

[Just Midol]

Heya,

In todays lesson (for security) I was drilling the teacher guy about dog handling in the security industry. He knew a bit and said my best bet is to do the short 5 day course at wide bay then seek out a dog and get a few lessons myself with the dog then try and get a job as a handler and the company should fund the rest of the training.

Is this how it works? He admitted he didn't know much about it but said he has seen it done this way before? If so, who would I be looking at up here on the coast? I need as much training as the dog does...

The first aid instructor is actually a dog handler and trains protection dogs but I don't like him as he wouldn't answer any of my questions.

Cheers,

Michael.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Lord Midol

[Kavik]

I don't know the whole deal, but this is what I have gathered.

I assume you are doing the ABC course? There is then the D dog handling course. Not sure what that involves (I have done the ABC course). I have sat in on a security dog handling course, but that was a while ago, not sure if it is the same now as they have changed the system. The people I instructed with ran the course on their property, you could use your dog but if you didn't have one you could use one of theirs. Some security companies have dogs that handlers can use, some I think you use your own, I'm not totally sure on the protocol there. I think you keep the dog on your property?

[Just Midol]

I'd prefer to own the dog myself But if I can't, well, then I can't.

I have no idea what ABC is. We don't have to be licensed for dogs in QLD yet but next year will. I am doing the normal cert 2 in security to get my license then doing the weapons (baton, pistol, cuffs, knife - not sure of knife) and then there is a 5 day course in wide bay that covers dog handling.

The dog handling course in wide bay is designed so that if you do it then when the K9 licensing is bought in you are able to get it:

http://www.widebay.tafe.qld.gov.au/resourc...ompetencies.pdf

It's only $500 or so, I don't know how useful it will be but I might as well do it.

[Jeff Jones]

Kinda OT but: Who is the instructor? and what is his experience?

I would do the course if it is going to become mandatory to complete next year anyway.

I would prefer to handle my own dog when working not a security companys. I would use one of there dogs for the course though.

Cramet and Nekhbet who post on here have done Security Dog Handler work maybe pm them if they dont reply in here

Edited November 22, 2007 by Jeff Jones

[Just Midol]

Jeff, the security instructor or the dog guy?

Will PM those two. I think I will use one of their dogs for the course. I am just trying to find the local laws here for how I have to contain a trained dog. Bloody hard to find this info.

Anyone know anything about these guys: http://www.k9centre.com/index.html

I would consider traveling but if I need regular lessons and such then it will get pricey making the drive and such.

[Kavik]

Sorry, the ABC and D thing must be NSW only.

[ducky]

If you can sub contract yourself out for jobs you like it you may be able to enjoy it but if you join a company and say get stuck doing train yards I wouldn't wish that on anyone as the dogs get more breaks then you and it's very hard, boring, tiring work and if it's a company dog don't expect it to protect you as any dog showing aggression is off the employment list as the companies would rather have you bashed then have the dog bite someone (costs less that way).

[Tilly]

Not sure where in QLD you are but we are in Brisbane.

My brother did a security course and then a dog handling course. He brought his first dog from his boss and did a couple of sessions with the dog before taking him on.

Some of the better security companies will expect you to attend regular weekly training sessions - as it is in their best interest to ensure dog and handler and properly trained.

As far as keeping the dog - we keep our dog in the back yard with a secure 8ft timber paling (double paling on one side because the kids there tried to stick their fingers through the gaps). The gates are padlocked and we have clear signage on the fence. Because our dogs are not "Guard Dogs" but "Security Dogs" they are treated like normal dogs. If they were "Guard Dogs" then they would be required to wear the special collars, be secured in cages/runs and cost $275 per year to register. When I spoke to the council they told me "Guard Dogs" are the dogs that are secured in car yards etc and don't work with a handler.

While we had our rottie alive (he died 18 June this year) we had to be careful about having people in our backyard because he was protective and didn't like people much - this was because he had been trained to work security overseas and didn't tolerate people getting close to him. Our GSD on the other hand is trained as personal protection so he is much more friendly. He loves most people but still has moments where he just doesn't like someone - but we can usually tell immediately by his body language and he hasn't been wrong in how he judges people.

[Just Midol]

Tilly, is that a council thing or state thing re the containment of them? I might have to check with the council. Our place is 6ft chain link but it's pretty simply to add a few extra feet of wooden fencing on the top if I need it to be intruder proof.

[Tilly]

The solid fence is personal preference - we didn't want to run the risk of people sticking their fingers or hands into the yard and risk getting bitten. We did double pale the fence on one side because they had an 11 year old boy who tried to stick his fingers through the fence to pat the dog. The dog was sleeping up against the fence while I was handing out the washing - I turned around when I heard the dog growling so I could called him away before he could react to the poking. We had extra paling put over othe gaps that afternoon - to protect our dog from the kid.

There was no specified council requirement for fencing / containment other then sufficient to contain our dog - but you will find different councils have different requirements.

[Erny]

I may be way off, but at least here in Victoria my understanding is that a security trained dog is supposed to be declared a "Dangerous Dog" and housed according to the "Dangerous Dog Laws". But that doesn't really help you, Midol. Sorry.

[Guest Pandii]

Erny I for once might have to disagree with you, security dogs are exempt from the dangerous dog laws, but my understanding is there are very strict rules on what sort of areas they have to be contained in when they are alone.

They must not be left with a child under 16yo

And the pen/run must met certain standards

But I could be wrong and in that case Erny I apologise

[Erny]

It's ok Pandii - I'm happy to be corrected. I am not sure about the laws in this regard myself. Will see if I can find out .....

[Erny]

Things You Should Know .....

Exerpt :

"Protection training is defined as training a dog to attack people or animals and includes the training of a dog to attack a human wearing padded protective clothing for any purpose including sport. It is not considered appropriate for a member of the community who is not a licensed security guard to have access to an attack trained dog and this is reflected in the strict provisions of the Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Act. Dogs that have received this type of training will be declared as a dangerous dog by a Council."

Note: This is Victorian Legislation.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Erny

[Guest Pandii]

Things You Should Know .....

Exerpt :

"Protection training is defined as training a dog to attack people or animals and includes the training of a dog to attack a human wearing padded protective clothing for any purpose including sport. It is not considered appropriate for a member of the community who is not a licensed security guard to have access to an attack trained dog and this is reflected in the strict provisions of the Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Act. Dogs that have received this type of training will be declared as a dangerous dog by a Council."

Note: This is Victorian Legislation.

i stand corrected, some councils must be different, and some dogs come nder the feral nuisence act.

Edited November 30, 2007 by Pandii

[Tilly]

The link to the Brisbane City Council info are at :pc=PC_1826#dogs" target="_blank">Brisbane City Council.

The permit conditions are listed here Permit Conditions but you will see they only relate to dogs how are used by commercial premises and are without a handler. Security dogs who work with handers don't fit into this category so are treated as pets. All well trained "personal protection" security dogs are safe to have around families and children - well ... just as safe as any loving family dog.

We also have friends who are police dog handers and they take their dogs home with them at the end of the day - they are not required to have anything more then a secure yard in which to house the dog.

You are probably best to contact your local council and see what they require - every one will be different.

[Erny]

You are probably best to contact your local council and see what they require - every one will be different.

Yes - I think the 'blanket' legislation is in place, but it's left to the Council's own devices as to which way they wish to handle things. The other thing you need to give thought to is the possibility of :

• The Council fairly easily changing policies; and
  
• You ever moving from one shire to another.
  

[Guest Pandii]

Thanks Tilly

Edited November 30, 2007 by Pandii

[Mystiqview]

All I can ask, is PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not turn into the rednecks we get at work who have security dogs.

Have seen a number over the years in relation to my job, and the result of poor training, and even worse handlers. One security dog bit the police officer, the suspect and the handler on "the job".

[Just Midol]

Nah, I won't be like that. I won't take it out unless I trust it and the trainer says we're good enough

I am trying to find out which companies around here help train the dogs and which companies actually require man-dog teams to undergo training. I don't want to be involved in a shitty company.