Pulling On The Leash!

[Lablover]

I should probably not reply to this thread, but cannot seem to help myself.

If your dogs KNOWS the command heel, and due to past wins/ignoring you, I would buy myself a fly swatter and shorter lead, or if on long lead, tape the fly swatter to a suitable length flexible pole.

When walking starting with low level distractions, concentrate on your dog. At the first sign of pulling, command heel ( or whatever voice cue you use for loose walking), and within a very short time frame - BUT AFTER THE CUE/COMMAND, if your dog does not respond, correct with fly swatter. You only know your dog..........so the correction, has to fit the crime. Praise instantly for good responses. Do not nag (or gently swat) the dog, and if a good response occurs, remember to praise.

Timing is critical, remember short time frame, half a second, one second. quick, but after the cue!!!!

[Tonymc]

Lablover,please tell me how your going to dissassociate yourself from the correction with the Fly swatter and not build up resistance? tony

[Lablover]

Lablover,please tell me how your going to dissassociate yourself from the correction with the Fly swatter and not build up resistance? tony

Why would I wish to dissassociate myself from the correction?

[BrunoBella]

I love the flyswatter idea but haven't got any hands left with my two

BP

[cavNrott]

I should probably not reply to this thread, but cannot seem to help myself.

If your dogs KNOWS the command heel, and due to past wins/ignoring you, I would buy myself a fly swatter and shorter lead, or if on long lead, tape the fly swatter to a suitable length flexible pole.

When walking starting with low level distractions, concentrate on your dog. At the first sign of pulling, command heel ( or whatever voice cue you use for loose walking), and within a very short time frame - BUT AFTER THE CUE/COMMAND, if your dog does not respond, correct with fly swatter. You only know your dog..........so the correction, has to fit the crime. Praise instantly for good responses. Do not nag (or gently swat) the dog, and if a good response occurs, remember to praise.

Timing is critical, remember short time frame, half a second, one second. quick, but after the cue!!!!

Are you saying 'heel' is a voice cue for loose walking Not in our training regime it's not. Heel means my dog must walk directly beside my left leg. Loose walking means my dog is allowed the full length of the lead providing she does not pull. I use the word 'easy' for loose leash walking when releasing her from heel.

Sorry I don't agree with your training methods at all. I would not resort to hitting my dog with a fly swatter or anything else. Hitting dogs plays no part in obedience training IMO. My dog trusts me not to intentionally hurt her and I don't betray her trust.

I suggest you give yourself a good whack with that fly swatter and see how it stings.

My Rottweiler was a dedicated puller. If she is overly excited and starts pulling as soon as we get out the door a simple Ah Ah will stop her followed by a few snappy obedience commands in the driveway to remind her of who is in charge. We then continue our walk without her pulling.

[MonElite]

I love the flyswatter idea but haven't got any hands left with my two

BP

YOu shouldnt be taking two when you are training at first :p remember low distractions....

LL - this isnt the first time the flyswatter has been mentioned, I must get one

If not for dog training at least for the flies :D

[Tonymc]

Lablover,why would you want to disassociate yourself from the Correction?Your response is the one I suspected it would be.I mention the word resistance in my post.Have a think about what the word resistance means. Tony

[BrunoBella]

I do remember Myszka. I take both cause they are fantastic on the lead but I still need two hands most of the time to hold both leads. I actually have no use for the flyswatter but thought it was a cool idea even though I do not hit my dogs. If we have any problems I cut down the distractions. I used my backyard to teach both my two to walk nicely on the lead.

I had to be a bit innovative while training the dogs initially as I had horrible neighbours who rang the council up cause my dogs ran around the back yard. This meant I couldn't train bruno to stay at home cause he cried for the first 30 seconds and the neighbours would just ring the council again. Instead, I took them both to the park, and tied one up while I trained the other and then swapped. This is also where we learned to all walk nicely together.

I now have much better neighbours and could easily leave one at home while I walked the other but haven't had to yet.

[dee lee]

Ouch Lablover, you probably shoudve listened to your own advice!!! :wink:

I heard a similar story from a country guy i know with a kelpie who used the end of his leash and said that it made the dog feel that it was the LEAD punishing it not him. Interesting idea but not for me i'm afraid- reminds me too much of getting smacked by the wooden spoon as a kid!! ;)

Daily update- ok day today, kept it short and followed with a training session in a medium distraction area. Judging by her minimal interest in me at that sesion i think that may be where my problem lies. Any suggestions on how i can get her to focus? this was in a tiny park where she knows cats are so food treats just were of no value to her. She managed a couple half hearted sit, drop, stays (on leash so she couldnt ignore me + bolt off for a sniff) but there was lots of whining and if the leash wasnt on i wouldve had no chance. Just keep it up until she gets the idea?

I feel like im back at the beginning- its been so frustrating knowing that in the last few months since i havent been able to let her off leash at the park her recall has all but vanished!!! Along with her outside training...

Bugger, but onward and upward eh?!!

[jaybeece]

Any suggestions on how i can get her to focus?

Have you considered using TOT out in the street? I've used a cut down version when we're out, continuing on with the walk is what he wants, but unless he looks at me he doesn't get it. It can also be used for being let off the lead, leaving the house, etc. Clicker training might be of some use too, even if she's not very food driven. The reward association with the click seems pretty strong and my dog has always recognised it even when reasonably distracted.

Now my dog still doesn't have great focus, but I've had to accept that he's no border collie ;) He's half sighthound and there's only so much dedicated attention I'm gonna get from him when there are so many interesting things to chase/sniff/pee on out in the street. But he glances back at me while walking and will actually watch without being told to sometimes and that's good enough for me.

[Lablover]

I should probably not reply to this thread, but cannot seem to help myself.

If your dogs KNOWS the command heel, and due to past wins/ignoring you, I would buy myself a fly swatter and shorter lead, or if on long lead, tape the fly swatter to a suitable length flexible pole.

When walking starting with low level distractions, concentrate on your dog. At the first sign of pulling, command heel ( or whatever voice cue you use for loose walking), and within a very short time frame - BUT AFTER THE CUE/COMMAND, if your dog does not respond, correct with fly swatter. You only know your dog..........so the correction, has to fit the crime. Praise instantly for good responses. Do not nag (or gently swat) the dog, and if a good response occurs, remember to praise.

Timing is critical, remember short time frame, half a second, one second. quick, but after the cue!!!!

Are you saying 'heel' is a voice cue for loose walking ;) Not in our training regime it's not. Heel means my dog must walk directly beside my left leg. Loose walking means my dog is allowed the full length of the lead providing she does not pull. I use the word 'easy' for loose leash walking when releasing her from heel.

Sorry I don't agree with your training methods at all. I would not resort to hitting my dog with a fly swatter or anything else. Hitting dogs plays no part in obedience training IMO. My dog trusts me not to intentionally hurt her and I don't betray her trust.

I suggest you give yourself a good whack with that fly swatter and see how it stings.

My Rottweiler was a dedicated puller. If she is overly excited and starts pulling as soon as we get out the door a simple Ah Ah will stop her followed by a few snappy obedience commands in the driveway to remind her of who is in charge. We then continue our walk without her pulling.

See, I just knew I should have kept my mouth shut or rather my fingers off the keyboard.

Frankly basic obedience is not a concern of mine as I have other fish to fry.

I am thought as a very humane and considerate dog owner. That being said, if I am convinced one of my dogs knows a command, and if corrections can be given within an acceptable time frame, I will do so. Never in anger. The required response is achieved with no fallout from myself or the dog. I think I have excellent timing.

I must be doing something right, and this sounds terrible, but when I train in public areas (rarely), there has never been another joe blow, who has not asked for advice.

I would much rather train with a flat collar, and a fly swatter (used rarely), than a chain collar.

Do you think a dog should feel corrections came from a blade of grass, the tree nearby?? What am I missing?

I do not care a hoot which vocal cue to used, heel, close, coke, whatever - has been taught.

What I do know, is dogs learn to ignore their handlers fast!!!!!!!!

Heeling can be difficult to train, as I have noted at many obedience clubs.

I do not wish for a dog to be injured by a fly swatter, rushing onto a road, dragging their owners or children.

I do wish I had not entered this thread, nevertheless feel free to debate. I am old enough to take it!!!!

[PAX]

Deelee,

You can get really long leads, like 20 metre long lines so she can still hoon around at the park but be under your control.

You have to decide what sort of method you want to use to train her and what you really want from her, you also have to be fair and consistant so it is easy for her to know the difference.

My dogs are allowed to do basically whatever they like when off lead at the beach or park but when I call them they must come and obey. Because this has always been so heavily rewarded they always want to do as I ask. Everything my dogs want they have to do something I ask to get it, so when they are on lead it is no different.

All my training happens in low distraction areas, in more exciting places I would only ever ask for easy things like a sit or a hand touch, I don't want to practise failure. I also want my dogs to think it is always in their best interest to do as I ask as it gets them what they want.

You could practise things like a couple of steps of attention heeling at the park then let her free on the long line, Always reward her heavily for attention and make your intentions clear to her, a good free release word and body language so she is always clear of want you want. When my dogs are free I say Ok off you go.

When ever I ask my dogs to come into my perfect heel position I show them a different body postion then what they see at other times. The way I walk casually and the way I walk heeling are quite different, that helps my dogs know the difference. Also when I show them my heeling position I always make it worth their while to get into heel position.

Even things like ask for a sit, say 'yes good dog' then stir her up to get what she wants saying 'where's the food' or whatever as a reward. Make sure she is on leash and under control so she can't get into trouble, I do this with my naughty Dobe but to the local Ibis and wood ducks that are at our park. You have to teach her she can have what she wants but it's through you. She has do as you ask to get what she wants, they are the best rewards for dogs. Of course keep her on a long line so she is safe until she is more reliable.

What ever you decide, stick to it to help your dog work it out. If you are unsure how will she ever learn. ;)

[PAX]

Hey LL, I love you and love your posts. ;)

[MonElite]

See, I just knew I should have kept my mouth shut or rather my fingers off the keyboard.

I do wish I had not entered this thread, nevertheless feel free to debate. I am old enough to take it!!!!

no no no dont you EVER sit on your hands thinking of typing something and not typing it becouse someone might criticise you.

You are banned from this - understood? ;)

[PAX]

Hi M. ;)

[MonElite]

Hi P

Im doing a short training video, Ill send it to you, you can criticise all you like, ok? I had Ella look at it and she never gives complements, as you know, and she said - oh I can see you learned walking

And ........... are you sitting down?............. she said she will give me few lessons, becouse Im special.

NOONE gets lessons, EVER. I begged on my knees for few years now, and now she OFFERED.

Dont know if its a complement or she thinks Im so hopeless and need to be rescued ;)

[PAX]

You're funny. ;)

[Lablover]

Lablover,why would you want to disassociate yourself from the Correction?Your response is the one I suspected it would be.I mention the word resistance in my post.Have a think about what the word resistance means. Tony

Tony, could you please explain your definition of resistance please?? One thing I have learnt is even though we might speak English, interpretations can vary. Mine especially as I talk retrieving training, which is some cases is another dialect.

Myszka,

ha ha. Thanks I think. I picked up my youngsters this afternoon, after being away with my husband, for a whole week, without the dogs. First time for over a decade, as other holidays may include other dog people. My dogs did not heel for their carer!!!! What a hoot!!!!!!!!!!!

[dee lee]

Lablover, I[ appreciate your posts, Thankyou for taking the time to reply to my cries for help! ;)

Frankly I dont find your advice to be too harsh, horses for courses and if it works im sure that fly swatter is out of action pretty quick.

Forums do seem to encourage a less than friendly tone sometimes i must say. Lets keep it noice guys!!

Pax, I've been looking for a long lead actually (someone even mentioned getting one from a horse supplier) - planning on internet ordering one.

My big problem is finding something that my dog wants. Food is NOT it when we are out. But if i get the gist of what you are saying I should find her motivation and reward her with something like a run free instead of food. Im SUCH a novice... Ive avoided this because i'm a bit inexperienced at this kind of training - food has been IT before. I'll see what i can come up with.

Jaybeece, Funnily enough i did do the ol TOT on the street this morning- we stopped and did not move on until she looked at me. Not an amazing result but im expecting it will improve, she is great at it at home. Havent even thought of clicker training, will do some research into it- As i said above, im a bit of a basics gal, it takes a bit to get me beyond that

Thanks guys, you have been great support.

ETA: man you guys are fast, there have been 4 posts while i've been typing!!!

Edited January 4, 2008 by deelee2

[PAX]

Deelee, just remember anything your dog wants, to her is a reward. What we thinkk is a reward is often different then what the dogs thinks. Remember, if she wants it, its a reward, so ask for something so she can earn the right to get it.