Ahona Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 (edited) Hi all We went to the vet today and I am a bit worried now, so feedback from all goldie/large breed owners and breeders appreciated. We took spuddie to the vet to be chipped and he got checked and said he was fine, lean but that's the way the vet likes them. And as we were leaving the vet said the only thing that concerns him is that spuds hindquarter muscles look a little shrunken and wasted and apparently that can indicate HD??! He said of course it cant be diagnosed by looking, but that before we breed spud (at that point we said no we arent, so he said, okay when he comes in to be desexed at 1.5 years) to get an xray to see how his hips are going!! His parents are HD free of course and our breeders had all the tests, he's on a great food (EP Holistic for large and giant breed pups) and has had not much exercise as a puppy at all except short walks, we've tried to do it all right!!! Now I'm worried that he has HD and don't know whether to believe the vet or not? He did say that about the x ray right after he heard we had insurance for spud? I hate being so cyncial Also, spuds not growing well He's about 2 inches above my knee and weighs 23 kilos and is filling out, but he's still nowhere near adult shape or size. is that normal? If you have a golden retriever, could you post pictures of your dogs aged about 6 months so I can compare please? And people in the know, does the shrunken muscle thing sound right to you? For what it's worth, spud is very active and runs and jumps and plays in the backyard with no stiffness or any sign of discomfort at all! Thanks! a. Edited May 24, 2008 by Ahona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outatime Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Not sure about how big his muscles should be, but if you are worried, I'd get him swimming...excellent for building muscles without any stress to the hips. And being a goldie I'm sure he loves water. Hope it's nothing serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahona Posted May 24, 2008 Author Share Posted May 24, 2008 Thanks, swimming is a good idea! Any idea whereabouts we can go? I'm in melbourne! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldielover Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Hi Ahona, As i'm sure you're probably aware, HD is polygenic, so even though we screen the sire and damn, sometimes it will unfortunately rear it's ugly head. Swimming is a great exercise to build up muscle, but i would also consider taking him to a chiro.... not sure who is around your way though? Maybe also post a pic of Spud standing if you've got one? As your vet mentioned HD isn't diagnosed just by looking, so could be something completely different! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahona Posted May 24, 2008 Author Share Posted May 24, 2008 Thanks GL! I'm not exactly sure if there is a problem, because he looks like other 6 month old goldens to me and I have googled Plus he has been to the vets thrice before and to obedience school and no one else has mentioned anything, except to say he is in great shape? I will look into getting him to a chiro if I can find one here, just for peace of mind, here is a new picture of him standing. I was standing up though pointing down, so he looks a bit skinnier than he is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outatime Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Thanks, swimming is a good idea! Any idea whereabouts we can go? I'm in melbourne! Well I'm in Perth, so I'm not too sure! However, last year I dealt with Jo at Aquapaws (http://www.aquapaws.com.au/) when my dog had her hip problems (Jo organised a canine cart/wheelchair from America for me). They're in Melbourne (I have no affiliation with other than being a happy customer - actually found them right here - they're one of the advertisers at the top of every page on this forum, and Jo was very helpful and fantastic to deal with) and do hydrotherapy and they even have underwater treadmills. It may be a bit much for your boy at the moment, they do a lot of rehab work, and I'm sure if you just found a swimming pool that he could swim in, he would build up those muscles. But it's worth a call to them even just to have a chat about it and see what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Rules Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Hi Ahona I have a 5 year old goldie with bad hip dysplasia - however I didn't get him as a pup so can't post a pic. No help to you there sorry. I do however have his pedigree papers and the hip scores of his parents - both were excellent. I have another goldie and have often compared their rear ends as I'm being dragged along on a good walk - I can't see the difference really other than how the HD dog walks (he often sort of skips - the vet calls it handstanding). I would assume any lack of muscle or muscle atrophy in the hind quarters would be due to lack of use? (ie protecting if in pain?) The best way to diagnose as you know is Xrays, and honestly, if you are at all concerned, you should get him Xrayed. You can help lessen the longterm effects with supplements and correct treatments if diagnosed as a pup. Use your insurance for the purpose it was purchased - regardless of the vet's intent - you will at least get a correct diagnosis and know which way to head. I lifted my HD boy into the back of the car last night and quite clearly heard his hips click as I lifted the back end up - I felt so sorry for him at the time as it must be at least constantly uncomfortable. Hope your Spuddie gets the all clear - he looks adorable in that pic too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nillasdad Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 (edited) Bit hard to tell anything from that photo, can you do another side on, maybe another one from above his rear straight on... In Melbourne, Kepala is a great place to take your dog swimming http://www.kepalak9countryclub.com.au/ Dogs in Motion is another place I can think of http://www.dogsinmotion.com.au/index.php Edit: You can still get the muscle mass build up with swimming whilst you're waiting for the Xray. Edited May 24, 2008 by seagate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I would also suggest and xray now, then you know exactly what you're dealing with(or not) The vet may be off the mark...... or he may be spot on. Unless you look at the joints.. you will be worrying unknowingly he is cute..and I love his name! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahona Posted May 24, 2008 Author Share Posted May 24, 2008 Thank you Will try and get a better picture tonight! Do they put dogs under for Xrays? In that case, I may wait till around 1 year of age, when Spud has grown a bit more and is going to be desexed, don't want to have to put him under anesthesia twice! Like I said, I'd never even considered the possibility of HD for him yet, because he moves so well and freely and painlessly, so what the vet said took me by surprise. He is going through rather a lanky phase atm too, hopefully he fills out soon! a. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I may wait till around 1 year of age, when Spud has grown a bit more and is going to be desexed he can be castrated any time from now on .... Maybe look around for a vet who is into orthopedics, and ask their opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahona Posted May 24, 2008 Author Share Posted May 24, 2008 I know Persephone, but we've chosen to wait till between 12-15 months to castrate for health reasons. More pictures of him, he is outside in his clam shell pool digging and has turned to look at me, so odd angle in some. Also pardon our dirty windows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILFC Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Could be the angle of course- but does his back have a slight roach? (curve upwards) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahona Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 It does seem to sometimes, is that an indicator of problems? He is growing though and sometimes his back half is taller than his front and vice versa so he often stands on a slope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle wrangler Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 I's consider getting him Xrayed (yes, needs to be under anaesthetic) and desexed at the same time. IMO the risk of 2 anaesthetics is greater than any possible health effects of desexing at 6 months (I'm not a vet, though). Have you spoken with his breeder? Sought advice from them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aranyoz Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 I's consider getting him Xrayed (yes, needs to be under anaesthetic) and desexed at the same time. IMO the risk of 2 anaesthetics is greater than any possible health effects of desexing at 6 months (I'm not a vet, though). Have you spoken with his breeder? Sought advice from them? If your dog is not exhibiting any outwould sign of pain I would not go jumping to any conclusions and definately would not bother with x-rays at this time. Also there are many reasons NOT to desex before 12 months of age when his growth plates have closed so I would stick to your chosen plan and also see a good dog chiro to ensure he doesn't need an adjustment in the lumber region of his spine which may account for the slight roach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaves Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 (edited) I would be speaking to your breeder first and foremost. Then take him to a massuer or chiro vet, Kate Haines in Morwell is great - have complete faith in her. Ask for her opinion and she will help guide you. If then you decided to do xrays do so. However the vets will push for it now before 12months as they can 2 two different operations - one that the can only do before 12months i was told by my vet. However they are still growing so the xrays could be wrong too Otherwise try Monash Vet - Either Mark Foley or Stuart someone. Edited May 26, 2008 by i haz flava! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 I think you're overreacting, nothing you have said would make me suspect that your dog may have HD. 6 month old large breed puppies commonly look all out of proportion because different parts of their bodies grow at different rates and looking bum high and roached in the back can just be growth stages, at that age your dog is going through the 'fuglies'. Muscle is something that develops as a dog matures, you have already said that you limit your dog's exercise and I certainly wouldn't expect a 6 month old puppy who's carefully exercised to have a great deal of muscle. I also don't know why you're worried about his growth rate, your dog is still a baby and large breeds take much longer to fully mature than small breeds, he will probably be 12 to 18 months old before he even starts to resemble an adult golden retriever. I'm not saying that your dog definitely doesn't have HD, but I don't think you need to rush out and get him x-rayed. If you want to have his hips checked have it done at 18 months when you desex him. If he starts to develop hindquarter lameness than you may have cause for concern and an earlier x-ray may be warranted, but from what you've said he sounds perfectly normal to me. Have a chat with your breeder and if you're still worried do as IHF recommended and take the dog to see Ray or Mark at Monash Vet Clinic in Clayton. They specialise in HD and would be the best people to take a look at your dog and also do the x-rays when he's older. I don't know which vet you use, but you really need a vet who does a lot of hip x-rays and who is experienced in the positioning etc. Ordinary vets who seldom do hip x-rays generally don't have the experience to be able to them properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 Yeah I have to say, there doesn't seem to be any symptoms at all?! X-Rays are going way overboard when it's a 6 month old puppy who just doesn't have muscles yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahona Posted May 26, 2008 Author Share Posted May 26, 2008 Thanks! I know I probably am over reacting a little, I just have no idea what male 6 month old golden retriever pups are meant to look like and how much muscle they are supposed to have, so thought I would ask! I'm not going to do any Xrays for now, or desex, they can both wait till he is 18 months old, unless he starts exhibiting any signs meanwhile, which he is definitely not at the moment! Will get him swimming to build up muscle and see the chiro vet in a while at Clayton, thanks for the tip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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