Flaves Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Thanks Persephone.Really helpful,Interesting reading.Which I am sure will come in very handy.I really love this site,so helpful,Although some people are a touch discouraging.Oh Well everyone has THEIR!! Opinion Thats right we do. It is a public forum and we are all very different in our thoughts and our deeds. I would be inclined to sleep them together in a crate, maybe not in the bathroom though as bathrooms can be very cold rooms in the middle of winter (but you might be in a warmer place than me!) I would NOT sleep them together, i would try and keep them a part as much as i could. THey will bond very closely to one another spending so much time together. My friend and i got a pup each last year. We kept them apart for a week to lessen the bond. For my pup it wa not long enough and could i do it again i would keep them apart for 3 weeks before i put them together again. You need to make sure they have enough ONE ON ONE time WITHOUT the other pup. So the family and one pup does stuff, then the other pup then both The pups need to be self reliant in the manner of not depending on one another or it could cause anxiety issues. Crate training is a wonderful thing I would think you would need a 36 or 40 inch crate for a lab, well 2 for you Maybe sleep them in our room on opposite sides of the bed until they are toilet trained over night, that could take a few days, weeks or months. Or even in the lounge or laundry but you will need to get up every couple or few hours to take them out to start with. I would do this seperately also so that they dont go to play, and that way it will be a quicker pit stop. I think that whilst you at 11 had a pup, you didnt have 2 and you may remember it with slightly rose coloured glasses. Good luck, i hope everything turns out for you, yout OH, your kids and the pups - because at the end of the day IF it doesnt work then they are the ones who will suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
je33ie Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Hi CocoSonni! I know people on here can seem abrupt, condascending and negative at first (I joined this forum a year ago and was really offended by others' opinions, so I know how you feel!) but please please please listen to their advice. These people have become a godsend to me over the last 12 months and I think I owe it to them that I now have a gorgeous 8 week old lab lying next to me right now asleep in her crate. 12 months ago I thought I knew all there was to know about puppy-raising, but now I am so humbled I was ready to buy a pup from a not-so good breeder and have her live in the backyard alone from day one!! How foolish of me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocosonni Posted August 2, 2008 Author Share Posted August 2, 2008 Thank You guys in Response to Having separate time apart from each other.I actually Rang my breeder last Night and she also had said the same thing.So that is definately in the works.I feel confident that along with some great advice and hints we will be fine.We are ready to have no such social life or sleep for the first few if not more weeks.Luckily I am going to be on holidays and so are the kids when we get them.From what I have read that seems like a good thing.I know I must have sounded full of attitude in a couple of my posts,but to be honest I didn't ask for advice on if I Should! get them.I just asked on hints with sleeping arrangements.So thanks to those who actually responded to my question.I have loved every bit of advice.And I am sure It will be much needed when we actually get our 2 pride and joys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanglen Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Just my personal opinion, seperate them! Also my personal opinion, rethink getting two pups at once. I know you don't want to hear this but I own and breed labs, I have three chockie girls in fact and I am so thankful that I have never tried to do toilet training with more than one. Friends have littermates and all of them have had really big issues with toilet training. One family have now virtually given up and the pups have become outside dogs which was never the intention. I too had a dog at obedience school at around 10-12 years of age, and I do think it's a magic age to start and learn that bond, but really with two of them, the kids are going to have to try and break the bonds between the littermates to get themselves involved, a hard task. I rescue lots of dogs and have had lots of litters of young pups here before desexing and rehoming, toilet training and getting their attention away from their mates is always the hardest part. Lab babies are simply gorgeous and I adore my girls, I'm abslutely certain that you are thinking of your family but perhaps try to meet some-one who has done the two labs pups thing before you completely commit yourself. Anyway best wishes, lots of lab puppy cuddles and good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyliegirl Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) I am not sure its a good thing, having two puppies alone is alot of work and your children will complain after the first few weeks. Let alone just because your on holidays doesnt mean its good. What happens after the holidays, the puppies will be so used to you all being home that now suddenly noone is home at all? this will encourage destructive behaviour and nuisance barking because they werent trained to be used to you all not being home, its a very big change of scenery. Its like leaving a child who has known you to be around everyday and hour of their life on their own at the age of 2, they definately make a giant fuss and start screaming and carrying on. You can have all the faith you like with your children but the fact is, they arent you, they arent in your age of 15 years ago where things were different, children and raising children has changed since then, infact you didn't have half the toys and gadgets we do now 15 years ago, so it makes a big difference. The children will be excited the first few weeks with the puppy but like every other child in this world, will grow bored and start going back to their gameboys, computers and other toys and forget the puppy is there. I agree you should never get two puppies at once for all the reasons stated, but its obvious that you are ox headed for not taking any of the advice given apart from what you wanted to hear.. Raising puppies has also changed over these past 15 years, people are more experienced with them, know how to properly raise them, so how you think the puppies should be trained might seem right to you, might have changed these past 15 years. Actually it has changed ALOT in these past 15 years, its not a leave the dog out the bark yard thing anymore, 15 years ago people thought rubbing puppies noses in accidents actually taught them something, guess what IT DOESNT.. A breeder who has been breeding for 20 years doesnt mean they are an ethical breeder either, many puppy farms have been breeding for longer and are still functioning, do you think they know anything about the breed they are breeding? or if they are supplying the correct mental stimulation and diets for these dogs? I dont think so, you cant rate a persons knowledge on something by the years they have put into it. You rate it by how much they know about the breed of dog they have, and its history, where it began etc. You can say you know what you are doing, but its obvious that you dont with the way you are responding. I have had pups and dogs all my life from being born to growing up and even now I can proudly admit that even after all these years of having dogs and training my own I am still learning, you dont stop learning. Many of these people on here specialize in breeding dogs and knowing about the dog they are breeding, they are experienced ethical breeders, some mightve been breeding for only 2 yrs, but they KNOW because they took the effort to learn everything about their breed, to go to dog shows etc. Having a pet dog doesnt make you a guru, it definately doesnt mean you know what your doing. You need to go full force into it, learn everything about the breeds history, go to dog shows to know conformations etc. Its not an "I owned a dog for 15 yrs and now I know how to raise them" thing. Edited August 3, 2008 by kyliegirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal House Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 A good book to read and re-read thoroughly before getting any puppy is "The Perfect Puppy" by Gwen Bailey. Its a godsend.......a wealth of information on training, socialisation, crate training, health issues, feeding, behaviour, etc Available from here: http://www.booktopia.com.au/search.ep?author=Gwen%20Bailey Or try Ebay, enquire at your local library etc. I got mine 2nd hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocosonni Posted August 3, 2008 Author Share Posted August 3, 2008 Thanks I haz Flava.That was my next question what size crates should I be buying I have found some on Ebay 36 I think which says ok for large dogs such as labs/AlsoDoes anyone know if a soft crate is ok to use aswell?The ones I found are a bit chepaer than the wire ones,but I dont know which one is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanglen Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) Start with hard crates for labs!!!!!! Soft crates look nicer but are far too hard to clean and far too easy to be chewed! Edited August 3, 2008 by alanglen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaves Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Thanks I haz Flava.That was my next question what size crates should I be buying I have found some on Ebay 36 I think which says ok for large dogs such as labs/AlsoDoes anyone know if a soft crate is ok to use aswell?The ones I found are a bit chepaer than the wire ones,but I dont know which one is better? Hard crates until you know they wont destroy. Personally i would get a 38" just my opinion as i like my guys to have a little extra room, when they are pups it means you can have bedding up one end and newspaper down the other if you go out for short periods incase they have an accident. I did that but none of mine ever used it. A soft crate is great when you have an older dog who just lays in it, a hard crate will see you through puppydom, training, chewing etc. If you are in Melbourne try Petstation on ebay, they are also in Kew, they have fantastic crates for really good prices. I got my 42" for under $100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboyz Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Hi cocosonni. It is great you have joined this forum, and hopefully you will find lots of helpful advice. The reason you are getting such strong encouragement to rethink your decision is because it is not too late to do so. At least if you go ahead now you will have some very useful tips and warnings on how to cope. Separating them alot will be very important. With obedience training, if they can go to separate groups even better, as they will be constantly looking out for each other, which will make it difficult for your children to handle them. Hopefully some of the very experienced trainers on here can give you advice on whether it is better to have one dog under the care of one child, or best to mix with both. Perhaps you could ask in the training section for the best answers. As a breeder I have only ever allowed a brother and sister to go to the same home once. They were beagles, which are about 1/3 of the size and weight of labs. It was a responsible family with 2 sons, probably just a tad older than yours. The pups did not go together but about a month apart. They bought a female and returned to me a month later requesting the male I had run on for myself, as they were so happy with their girl. I thought it would work well, as the pups were of different natures, one outgoing (girl) one quieter (boy) and they had had time apart. Sadly it did not end well. I did a home check about a month after and found the boy was quite thin compared to the girl. The bitch was very dominant and would steal his food and try to keep him off the verandah. The family came home one night from work/school to find a very sick little boy. The vet said his injuries were similar to being hit by a car, but his was absolutely impossible as there was no way out of the yard. We presume the boy must have fallen from the verandah or down the stairs while the pups had been roughhousing. Sadly he died at the vets the next day. I am not suggesting that anything as tragic as this could happen to your pups, but is the one and only experience I have had of homing siblings together and I will never do so again. Even pups from different breeders would be a better choice, in my opinion. They will bond very closely, but may also fight as only siblings can, especially as teenagers. I often have maybe 2 puppies still here at 12-16 wks, but I must say I find it a relief when one of them goes to it's new home. It is very difficult to train 2 together. Good luck in your choice. I am sure if you are determined and are a strong leader you can make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shellbyville Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 (edited) Hi cocosonni, I kept 3 lab puppies from a litter that I bred, because I couldn't decide between them. My son & daughter (who are adults but still living at home 18 & 20)) have each claimed one of the puppies, and guess what! I do most of the work with the pups! Although they do take them out for socialisation quite often. My pups are now 4.5 months old and we take them to a show training class and it is really difficult getting the pups to focus on us and not on each other, as all they want to do is play with one another, which may be a problem you will face at obedience. We try to keep lots of distance between them, but they still seem to be very distracted and always looking for their litter mate. So you will have to work on that. Training at home has to be done separately and away sothey can't see each other and does seem to work at home, but not at class. I have had them separated at night since they were 8 weeks old and they have been outside in their kennel runs since then as well. They are also separated through the day and get a bit of a play with each other each day, but not for long because they are sooooo rough with each other! We have had no worries with crying at night, because even though they are separated they are close. I am telling you this just so you will know what you are facing. Especially as they do tend to bond with each other. Crate training is definitely the way to go and I probably wouldn't put them in the kids rooms. Kids need their sleep and separated the puppies will probably make a bit of noise for the first few nights. Maybe put their crates in another room and you will have to be prepared to toilet them at night for awhile and you will probably have to do it separately, as I crate trained mine and decided to let them outside at night for their toilet break together and all they did was play and didn't go to the toilet until they were back inside!! As long as you are prepared for the hard work, I hope you have lots of fun with your pups. Your kids will enjoy it I am sure, but if they are anything like my kids (who are now grown) they will love the fun stuff, like playing with them, but may not like the hard work like - taking them to the toilet in the middle of the night & training them. You will have to train the kids to train the dogs, because it doesn't come naturally to most people and lab puppies, can be a challenge. Good luck! Edited August 4, 2008 by shellbyville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocosonni Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 Thanks for the advice Shelbyville.In regards to the crate training separately,Can I crate them in the same room in separate crates?Or in two different rooms?I am so glad I have been given the advice of separation,because to be honest I had 2 pups when I was 10 both german shephards and My mother and myself kept them together all the time,although we had no problems with them,I took my pup to training and mum took hers to training.But from what I have heard maybe they were not the norm.So i am definately going to take the advice that you have given me.I am talking to my kids everyday druming into them all that will have to be done.And myself for that matter,lol.Alot of hard work is ahead of my family.Oh Happy days..Puppies..LOL!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shellbyville Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I am unsure what others would say, but if you don't want to have to contend with crying puppies, I would put them in their separate crates, but in the same room and cover their crates with a blanket or something to make it feel safe and cosy. If they are together (although in separate crates) at night, you will just have to put in a lot of individual separate time with them independently during the day. We usually bring one of the pups inside with us for a bit of time and leave the others outside. This works. It is absolute chaos when we have both or all 3 inside, they go nuts!!! A lot of fun to watch, but the house doesn't quite look the same after. My guys are pretty good at home, and they are quite good taking them away separately. We seem to only have a problem taking them out together, especially to training, as they seem to want to just play and focus on each other rather than on what we are trying to do with them. My girl is the worst, while the pup my daughter handles seems to focus a bit better on her. You may not even have this problem, but just letting you know what our experience is. I must say if I do it again, I will definitely only keep one pup from the litter, mainly because of the amount of time & effort needed to train 2 ( or 3 in my case. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labsrule Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Being a besotted lab owner and lover of many years my advice to you would be to think very carefully about the future for these two lab pups, particularly the impact on your life as your kids grow up. Kids promise all sorts of things when they are negotiating with their parents to get them a dog, but the truth is that many do not follow through on their promises. The majority of the time, the toilet training, feeding, exercising, bathing etc falls back onto the parent(s) and the dogs tend to take a backseat when the kids become teenagers and boyfriends and girlfriends enter the arena. Then there is the possibility of university which could result in the kid(s) having to live away from home, and you may end as sole carer for two adult labradors. The reality is that far too often kids abandon their devoted companions who they grew up with and I speak from personal experience here as my daughter who was absolutely devoted to her our darling black lab girl Cassie who we got as a 8 weekold pup when my daughter was 11 was pushed aside for boyfriends when my daughter was 16. I was extremely upset about this as we had many discussions about this possibly happening and my daughter constantly assured me that it would never happen and that Cassie would still be included in her life and would continue to receive the attention she has always received from her. Luckily I also had an extremely close bond with Cassie so she didn't miss out on any attention and in fact our bond deepened and we were inspearable and I still miss my darling girl (RIP sweetheart ) to this very day, 9 years after she passed at 13½ years. Lab puppies are without doubt the cutest pups around, but they are also hard work due to their boisterous natures, energetic levels, destructive prowess and high intelligence and it takes a lot of commitment from all family members to ensure they develop into well rounded, happy, well behaved adults. Labs can be a bit of a shock for Lab novices, even if you have had experience with other dogs as labs are very outgoing, over the top friendly, full on dogs who operate at full throttle in every thing they do. They have such an abundance of enthusiam and love of life which can be very challenging at times with some of their over the top crazy antics and they are the epitomy of the lovable larrikin They are fantastic with children and will bring much laughter and mayhem into your lives and I truly hope your children will be as devoted to them for their entire lives, as they will be to them and your family. They truly are an awesome breed and IMHO (totally biased of course :D) they are without peer. Their unswerving loyalty and devotion, strong bond, companionship and deep love are unrivalled and they will bring much joy to your family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabsGalore Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Hello Cocosonni.I am new to this website,Which I may add is Fantastic.I have read all the replies to your Question.I found some great advice and some not so great off Topic Opinions.In my opinion I would Crate train them on their own in differnt rooms of the house.I like you when I first got my two lab pups had two kids a 11 year old boy and a 10year old Girl.They were great with the dogs took on responsibility,took them to training,feed them,played witht hem,Bathed them.I am reading people's opinions on Kids will lose interest,some probably will and others wont.Mine never did not for one second.My Daughter took her lulu with ther when she moved out of home at 22 and my son did the same with his Onyx.Who am I to judge your Children Whom I have never met.If you believe they can I believe they can.It is going to be a huge Family Adjustment,but i am sure you know that.With Work and Effort You will Have 2 Beautiful life long Companions .I must add I Whole Heartedly agree with Time apart from eachother,The pups that is.They need time one on one with Family Memebers,Maybe if Your Son is outside with One You are inside with one.Rough housing will Happen all dogs That live together do that.Thnkfully Mine never did any harm to eachother.Good Luck If you need any Non Judgemental Advice Private message me I would be more than happy To try and Help you out.And one more Hint I would like to give you.Ignore those Horrorstories That is not what you need to be Hearing When You are Trying To Prepare For the new Arrivals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarriLab Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Hi cocosonni I also have a lab puppy who sleeps in a crate, with great success, so I'd definitely recommend using crates for sleeping your puppies. It helped so much with toilet training. We've found our little girl to be lots of hard work but so rewarding. I imagine with two, you'd have double the hard work but hopefully double the reward. Good luck! Sounds like you and LabsGalore have a lot in common! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoremIpsum Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Goodness me! It looks like Cocosonni and LabsGalore may have gone to school together! Note the space between sentences, the space between comma, the interesting capitalisation, the spelling, the unusual style. C'mon Cocosonni, we're not idiots. Look, I understand that you felt unsupported, but there is really no need to take the advice you've received personally. There's certainly no need to invent another forum member. No one is judging your children or your family. That's the great thing about this place — it's not about your family. It's about dogs. Surely it's better to get honest advice that challenges you than someone telling you what you want to hear? As I said earlier, I think you're lucky to get advice from breeders — I wish the people who bought Martha had been able to talk to breeders before I got Martha. (Much as I adore them for what they did in giving her to me — anyway, that's another story...) Either way, I still wish you well with your new arrivals, but I still think you should reconsider getting the pair. The (real, not invented) people who have experience of raising two puppies are pretty unequivocal in their feelings that they would not do it again. I think perhaps you weren't quite ready for the frank approach most people take on this board, and you've become defensive, and perhaps haven't really listened to the advice you've been given. I'm a newcomer here myself, but I like this board because the people are clever and a bit bolshie and let it be known if they disagree with you. People aren't insulting you or your family, they're just giving frank and fearless advice. It may take you some getting used to, but I think you should stop feeling offended and just work out what's going to be the best way your family can embrace a new member — or members! — using the great resources this site has to offer. And please, can you kill LabsGalore off?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I thought the same as you Botheration. The posting style is identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
je33ie Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 (edited) Goodness me! It looks like Cocosonni and LabsGalore may have gone to school together! Note the space between sentences, the space between comma, the interesting capitalisation, the spelling, the unusual style. You're awesome Botheration... You should be a detective! Edited August 4, 2008 by je33ie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoremIpsum Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 You're awesome Botheration... You should be a detective! Yeah. CSI: Melbourne. Martha is my trusty pardner! I really don't mean to be mean, just don't want to be taken for a ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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