Drive Training

[kayla1]

Just following on from the other drive training thread, what are the best toys to use? I've just started the Training in Drive program with a small dog, very high prey drive. She loves fluffy, squeaky toys - I have one fluffy toy that sings and moves and she goes crazy as soon as she sees me bring it out. Does it matter what toy is used, so long as it produces the drive?

[Erny]

Does it matter what toy is used, so long as it produces the drive?

No - it doesn't matter provided, as you say, it produces the drive.

If you have a choice though, pick a toy that is going to be easy enough for you to carry, hold and tug with. Once you build up drive though, you will probably find other toys you chose will trigger the drive you seek. Your "drive" toy should only be available for the "drive training" sessions.

ETA: I personally would prefer a toy that doesn't squeak or make noises, but it really is about the toy your dog "chooses", not about what we choose.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Erny

[Tonymc]

Erny is spot on, as whatever gets the job done,gets the job done. Tony

[Just Midol]

Let your dog pick which toy.

[dogdude]

Its also easy to make copys of the pro tuggies like Leerburg etc out of 38 mm cotton fire hose off cuts, stuffed with craft wadding and a loop of nylon webbing passed through, and sewn in for handles. (suit medium to large dogs.)

[kayla1]

Yes this toy was chosen by the dog. But it's not really made to be a tug toy, and it's a bit bulky and awkward to carry - which is not a problem at the moment as I've only started the first module so still just doing it around the house - but will be harder to carry in other environments. Does it matter whether I use a few different toys that my dog chooses, or should I just stick with the one?

Erny, is there a reason why you would prefer a toy that doesn't make noises?

[dogdude]

Is there a reason that you want to chop and change them? Just be aware that when using a "toy" in drive training.....it is no longer a "toy", its a prey item that the dog can only get access through you.

The reason that I use tuggies, is that they're easy to carry, and not bulky. I suspect Erny dislikes the sqeeky ones because they are probably a little too distracting during the learning stage, and not practical in public.

How small is your dog?

[Kavik]

I use one of those Orbee balls on a string for drive training.

But in the wide world they don't tend to be interested in it (they are great in the yard) so there I use a tough plastic squeaky toy, which they love and always work well for. I don't squeak it often, mostly use it like a ball.

[Erny]

Erny, is there a reason why you would prefer a toy that doesn't make noises?

Because it is quieter and it means I can train at times that other people might prefer me not to.

[kayla1]

Is there a reason that you want to chop and change them? Just be aware that when using a "toy" in drive training.....it is no longer a "toy", its a prey item that the dog can only get access through you.

The reason that I use tuggies, is that they're easy to carry, and not bulky. I suspect Erny dislikes the sqeeky ones because they are probably a little too distracting during the learning stage, and not practical in public.

How small is your dog?

This dog is a pap x terrier, about 7kgs. I don't necessarily want to chop and change - because the current toy is quite bulky and may not be practical out of the house, I'm just wondering whether to use a more practical toy now and then carry that same toy through to the outside world. But she may not go nuts over a more practical toy!

[dogdude]

I built my dogs drive with an impracticle fluffy, squeeky tuggie, then transfered the drive to a proper training tuggie (no fur or squeeks). Having a dog interested in an item is half the battle. Building the drive is the main goal.

At first, my dog just enjoyed the chase of the item, but was uncomfortable tugging. Once she realised it doubled the fun, she was hooked.

If you are not building the drive, the dog will lose interest in whatever you use. Even if he is going nuts about it now.

[laffi]

Its also easy to make copys of the pro tuggies like Leerburg etc out of 38 mm cotton fire hose off cuts, stuffed with craft wadding and a loop of nylon webbing passed through, and sewn in for handles. (suit medium to large dogs.)

Do you have a pic of these? I would like to try to make some myself

I built my dogs drive with an impracticle fluffy, squeeky tuggie, then transfered the drive to a proper training tuggie (no fur or squeeks). Having a dog interested in an item is half the battle. Building the drive is the main goal.

At first, my dog just enjoyed the chase of the item, but was uncomfortable tugging. Once she realised it doubled the fun, she was hooked.

If you are not building the drive, the dog will lose interest in whatever you use. Even if he is going nuts about it now.

Would you mind sharing with us how do you continue to build up drive?

Do you mean the Leerburg exercise from the Drive and Grip DVD where he turns fast in circles with a toy?

[dogdude]

I use the method shown in the Balabanov dvd.

Basically the dog only gets to catch the item if its showing maximum effort to catch it. There are various ways to do this depending on what you are using. You need to find the right balance. Too easy and the dog loses interest, and too hard can also be counterproductive, depending on how you structure your training.

Isn't dog training full of iffs and butts?

Edited August 31, 2008 by dogdude

[Kavik]

I really need someone to show me what I am doing wrong with drive training - at least help me figure out why they will do it in one place and somewhere else not even look at the toy

That balance dogdude is not easy when you're starting out

For now I'm only doing it in the yard, and using the squeaky when on walks cause I know they will work for that anywhere.

[laffi]

I use the method shown in the Balabanov dvd.

Basically the dog only gets to catch the item if its showing maximum effort to catch it. There are various ways to do this depending on what you are using. You need to find the right balance. Too easy and the dog loses interest, and too hard can also be counterproductive, depending on how you structure your training.

Isn't dog training full of iffs and butts?

What is the title of the Balabanov DVD?

I really need someone to show me what I am doing wrong with drive training - at least help me figure out why they will do it in one place and somewhere else not even look at the toy

That balance dogdude is not easy when you're starting out :p

For now I'm only doing it in the yard, and using the squeaky when on walks cause I know they will work for that anywhere.

I think it means that they toy you are using in the yard is not rewarding enough in other, more distracting environments. If your dogs work for the squeaky toy outside your yard that's already pretty good. So I guess you want them to tug outside your yard and they don't?

Edited September 1, 2008 by laffi

[Kavik]

Yeah I would like them to tug outside the yard and they won't. Won't even look at the orbee ball outside the yard, but if I bring it out in the yard they go nuts

So mostly I just use the squeaky outside the yard and practice my drive training and tug in the yard.

[laffi]

Yeah I would like them to tug outside the yard and they won't. Won't even look at the orbee ball outside the yard, but if I bring it out in the yard they go nuts

So mostly I just use the squeaky outside the yard and practice my drive training and tug in the yard.

Would they retrieve the orbee ball outside the yard? If yes, then you should be able to build up from that.

What worked for me (but was very slow) was to take my dog (just one at the time) outside, after I come back from work and they are very excited. I would try to play with the tug toy on the soccer field close to our house. I would tease her with it, and when she shows enthusiasm I try to throw it and chase her to it. Short tug session (couple of seconds) and go back home. So they learn that this is the time and place they can get a good play session if they are up for it. If they are not up for it we just go home.

It takes a while but it does work (and don't give up and start using the squeaky toy if they don't want to tug, it's the tug toy or nothing).

My main problem was that my dog wanted to sniff and got busy so I had to compete with the surroundings. If your dogs play for a more valuable toy (squeaky) outside I think you should have much easier time building up the drive for tug outside.

[Kavik]

That's a good idea. I just get frustrated when they stand there and look at me like I'm mad or something! And I feel like an idiot trying to tease them with the toy and they don't want to play

[dogdude]

The two Balabanov dvds are "Clear Communication", which basically outlines the method and compares it to other methods. And "The Game", which goes into using it to teach obedience exercises for trialling Schutz.

One reason why his methods are better for using on dogs that are not full on high drive (as required for the Flinks/Leerburg method, is the use of the positive "out". This builds drive alone, and keeps them ready to go again.

If I used an aversive "out" on my dog, she would switch off.

[Kavik]

I only use a positive type out for my guys. Once Kaos captures it and we tug for a bit, then I run him in a circle on lead with the toy, and then stop. When I stop, he will let go of the toy for the next go.

Mine would certainly switch off with an aversive out.