Prey Model Diets

[leopuppy04]

And since dogs are wolves, we try to base it on what they would eat - whole deer, which is the ideal diet of a wolf. If it could live on solely deer, it would. A deer is made up of approximately 10% edible bone, 80% meat (which includes fat, tendons, skin, hair, etc) and 10% organs.

And the average age of a wolf is 8 years, thats what gets me. As I said I'm just a little worried about the difference between the theory of the whole thing, which I see where people are coming from, and the whole practice using commercially prepared meat. That and we as humans have changed the dog quite a lot since the wolf as some dog breeds are showing allergies to meats - which you would think is fundamental to the health of the animal? Yes they might have similar teeth and digestive systems but the physiology has somewhat changed with linebreeding.

Can you please tell us how the digestive tracks of dogs changed with linebreeding? I mean I would like to know specifically what changed not just some vague statement about evolution.

Allergies are a different problem all together and most of them stem from using commercial foods .

I agree - I actually think the allergy issues are stemming from processed food or addatives in their diets. Even with humans who are fed organic are less likely to show these sorts of reactions (proper organic) and likewise a lot of dogs who have allergy issues if they are fed a BARF/ Raw food they tend to have less severe allergies.

Thanks for the idea of sawing a frozen roo tail!!!! NEVER thought of that!!!!!

Edited February 11, 2009 by leopuppy04

[Nekhbet]

Allergies are a different problem all together and most of them stem from using commercial foods

puppies with allergies? How is that from commercial food? I mean that as people we have allowed all these different breeds to exist because we have supported them and their perpetuation. Wolves survive through natural selection - individuals with allergies or intolerances died.

I agree that the additives in commercial foods express themselves in allergies - christ we didnt call it PAL skin/ears for nothing at the vet clinic *shudder* but I'm talking away from cramming every artificial chemical down the dogs throat.

As for allergies being the product of commercial foods, how many breeds are known for intolerances, both environmental and dietary? Would you keep a Shar Pei on a red meat based diet? I believe there are some members here whos dogs are on a highly restricted diet due to intolerances (I'm not having a dig at anyone here) and their dogs would suffer on a prey model diet. I know a few little toy breed dogs that given any raw meat either vomit or shoot pure liquid out the back end. Mums little pom is not on commercial food but raw meats make him ill, so his meats are cooked - again we've shrunk the dog down to 5-10% of a wolfs size that HAS to have some impact along the way.

All I meant was linebreeding, heck even breed creation, requires an increase in the expression of recessive genes, some of which expressed in the wolf would have severely limited their chance of survival. Deficiencies, modified dietary needs (a great dane puppy and a pomeranian pup would have two very different dietary requirements) lacking or modified biochemical pathways which again change what the dog requires.

I'm not knocking anyone here, hell my own dogs are on a raw diet. But they love their vegetables, I have no constipation in any of them when veges are included and they even go pick their own fruit from my garden. I just dont agree that every breed of dog and the wild wolf are exactly the same

Edited February 11, 2009 by Nekhbet

[Guest belgian.blue]

Does anyone add eggs as a prey model diet? If so how many over a week?

[Diva]

Hi again,

I also feed green tripe.

Where do you get it? I've tried but I've been told the health regs make it practically impossible in Australia

[laffi]

Does anyone add eggs as a prey model diet? If so how many over a week?

Sorry edited my first post as I forgot about the eggs. I feed them once or twice a week.

[VintageDiva]

Does anyone add eggs as a prey model diet? If so how many over a week?

I feed anywhere between two to four raw eggs in their shells every week.

[VintageDiva]

Bean's weekly diet is never the same - it depends what I have in the freezer, what was on special, what I stocked up on etc.

But an average week would be something like two days of meat with no bone, then one day of a meaty bone. This seems the best way of working out the 80% meat/10% bone/10% offal (incl 5% liver) ratio.

Something like this:

Monday: Section of ox tongue + one egg

Tuesday: Lamb shank + one or two chicken livers

Wednesday: Beef steak + one egg

Thursday: Section of ox tongue + one kidney

Friday: Half a rabbit

Saturday: Fish head (usually salmon) + one egg

Sunday: Boneless roo chunk

For treats I like to use air dried (not cooked) offal or meat. During summer I freeze his Kong, stuffed with diced lamb or ox heart.

I'm also sometimes able to source whole chicken (still with feathers, feet etc) and rabbit (still with head, fur, feet etc). Bean has also caught the odd bird in the backyard and I let him eat them (what a sad waste otherwise). I once returned home from work, let him out of his outdoor pen and noticed some recent earthmoving he'd done... I dug down a little bit and discovered a tiny bird heart! He was very excited to see it - I guess that little morsel got away from him.

[stormie]

Allergies are a different problem all together and most of them stem from using commercial foods

puppies with allergies? How is that from commercial food? I mean that as people we have allowed all these different breeds to exist because we have supported them and their perpetuation. Wolves survive through natural selection - individuals with allergies or intolerances died.

I agree that the additives in commercial foods express themselves in allergies - christ we didnt call it PAL skin/ears for nothing at the vet clinic *shudder* but I'm talking away from cramming every artificial chemical down the dogs throat.

Agree 100% with this. Allergies are not a result of commercial food. It's in the genes. Nature uses natural selection - survival of the fittest.

Allergies are genetic and atopic dogs are continuing to be bred with.

I feed mostly a prey model diet (with what meats I can with my dog's allergies) but I also give fruit and veges and a little rice in his diet as well as offering to him to free feed from.

Personally, I believe dogs are scavengers and can survive quite well on almost anything. I think people stress waaaay to much about what percentages of this and that they feed their dogs. I've known of people who've fed solely meat and also people who've fed just chicken frames and never had any problems with their dogs.

[Just Midol]

I feed a mix of meat and bones.

Meat = Chicken or Beef.

That's it. I don't care for percentages and differing what they get. They look healthy, the vet says they are healthy. Good enough for me.

[laffi]

Allergies are a different problem all together and most of them stem from using commercial foods

puppies with allergies? How is that from commercial food? I mean that as people we have allowed all these different breeds to exist because we have supported them and their perpetuation. Wolves survive through natural selection - individuals with allergies or intolerances died.

I agree that the additives in commercial foods express themselves in allergies - christ we didnt call it PAL skin/ears for nothing at the vet clinic *shudder* but I'm talking away from cramming every artificial chemical down the dogs throat.

Agree 100% with this. Allergies are not a result of commercial food. It's in the genes. Nature uses natural selection - survival of the fittest.

Allergies are genetic and atopic dogs are continuing to be bred with.

I feed mostly a prey model diet (with what meats I can with my dog's allergies) but I also give fruit and veges and a little rice in his diet as well as offering to him to free feed from.

Personally, I believe dogs are scavengers and can survive quite well on almost anything. I think people stress waaaay to much about what percentages of this and that they feed their dogs. I've known of people who've fed solely meat and also people who've fed just chicken frames and never had any problems with their dogs.

Sorry this thread is going on a tangent . I asked my question to get some ideas what else I could incorporate in my dogs' diet. I don't obsess about the percentages either. I just want to learn what other people feed.

I don't want to argue here why dogs have allergies or whether they should be eating fruits or veggies.

So far ox tongue is something I would like to try. I am sure there is heaps of more people with different diets, so keep them coming

[Tiggy]

I'm getting more relaxed about the 80/10/10 ratio. That's what I aim for but it doesn't have to be exact. I changed from BARF to Prey-Model. The main changes to their diet being no more vegetables/fruit and no more boney bones like chicken frames. The raw meaty bones I feed are kangaroo tails, turkey wings/drumsticks, chicken maryland, half/whole chickens, lamb necks/shanks. I feed raw pilchards most days. Whole eggs twice a week. Liver, heart and kidney are best little and often or they get soft poos. I'm feeding an all meat meal every third day.