Snapped Cruciate Ligament

[huski]

My cousins lovely dog has snapped his cruciate ligament. He's had to have surgery on his knee for a shattered his miniscus, and is now wearing a huge cast on his back leg for the next few weeks. The vet has told her that the knee is not fully repairable and he is guaranteed to have arthritis in the near future.

They are devastated as he is an active, young dog (he is only five years old). He's got a lovely nature.

I was just wondering if there is anything I can recommend them to help him recover, apart from getting him a crate and giving them the details for the canine fitness center that has a pool you can use to help dogs in the rehabilitation stage. Is there any diet that would benefit him or things they can do to help him? Or anything they can do to lessen the chances of arthritis developing?

Here's a picture of Harry tonight after coming home from surgery:

Edited July 18, 2009 by huski

[puggy_puggy]

Oh poor boy.

Poppy feels his pain and hopes he doesn't have to wear his cast and be in jail for as long as her.

Only advice would be to make sure he is crated, no matter how hard that is, and get him onto some glucosamine and something with Gren Lipped muscles in it.

[huski]

Oh poor boy.

Poppy feels his pain and hopes he doesn't have to wear his cast and be in jail for as long as her.

Only advice would be to make sure he is crated, no matter how hard that is, and get him onto some glucosamine and something with Gren Lipped muscles in it.

Thanks Puggy. Will pass that on to her, what quantities of glucosamine and GLM stuff should I recommend? And how often do you give it to them? Is the glucosamine just in tablets or something else?

ETA: She just told me she already has him on glucosamine, but she hadn't heard of the GLM stuff - I googled it and found you can get it as a powder, do you just put it over the dog's food? The vet has got them giving him weekly anti-arthritis shots and says he will need the shots every month forever - is that a bit of over kill or is that normal?

Edited April 25, 2009 by huski

[Clyde]

Go hard on the Joint Guard. As soon as there is injury it lets arthritis set in. So basically any dog who has done their cruciate or got patella issues will more than likely get arthritis.

Cute dog with an equally cute cast, love it!

[laffi]

Sorry just curious, what are "weekly anti-arthritis shots"? Do you mean pain killers like cartrophen?

[puggy_puggy]

ETA: She just told me she already has him on glucosamine, but she hadn't heard of the GLM stuff - I googled it and found you can get it as a powder, do you just put it over the dog's food? The vet has got them giving him weekly anti-arthritis shots and says he will need the shots every month forever - is that a bit of over kill or is that normal?

GLM is in alot of joint products like Sasha's blend. You can also get it on it's own. Yep just put it over the dogs food.

What are the arthritis shots?

[poodlefan]

Tell them to slim him right down.. there is a link between weight and cruciate damage and a definite risk that the other one will go within the next couple of years.

[sas]

awww bless him.

He looks a little on the chunky size so I'd probably knock his food down because they less weight is is carrying on those joints the better and considering he's not going to be getting any decent exercise anytime soon he won't need such a high food intake.

Bugger he is in Brisbane, there is a great rehab place in Sydney that has an underwater treadmill as well, maybe contact them and see if they could reccomend anyone in your area?

http://www.sydneyanimalphysiotherapy.com/treadmill_1.html

[stormie]

The 'arthritis' shots are most likely cartrophen. Cartrophen is not a pain killer. Carprofen, ie Rimadyl, is the non steroidal (pain relief).

[Miss B]

There are a few places in the Brisbane region with hydrotherapy treadmills.

[huski]

Sorry just curious, what are "weekly anti-arthritis shots"? Do you mean pain killers like cartrophen?

Sorry Laffi - not sure, will have to ask them... assuming they are referring to cartrophen though.

Tell them to slim him right down.. there is a link between weight and cruciate damage and a definite risk that the other one will go within the next couple of years.

awww bless him.

He looks a little on the chunky size so I'd probably knock his food down because they less weight is is carrying on those joints the better and considering he's not going to be getting any decent exercise anytime soon he won't need such a high food intake.

Thanks Sas and PF, I will let them know, they have been giving him lots of dried treats to keep him still so I will tell them to find a healthier alternative.

[Staffyluv]

Ollie had partial tears in both cruiciate ligaments and we used ester C powder (7mg a day in his water) and as usual he has bounced back like there is nothing wrong with him. It aids in the repair of tissue damage.

Such a cute picture, poor baby

[Kelly_Louise]

Poor thing - Chloe has had both her meniscus removed as they were also very damaged, it's not as all scary as it sounds.

Get as much weight off him as possible - remember he's not active at all for the next couple of months so doesnt need the same amounts of food and he wont be burning anything off. Sore old legs dont need to be carrying around even an extra kilo.

Joint supplements - I like Sasha's Blend personally.

Light non impact exercise to strengthen the muscles.

And avoidance in future of high impact jumping, running hard games - sad but will help. Especially anything that involves jumping, its hard but they do get used to it. We cut a ball crazy cattle dog off all ball games, took away any balls she owned (all 50000 of them) and replaced with fluffy squeaky toys that she could chew, toss to herself, play tug with (and de-squeak) and learn to love - which she did. She has a few balls now, but she mainly just chews on them, bounces them to herself or we do some little throws that dont require her to jump.

I also agree with Cartrophen injections, he should only need them a couple times a year until he gets much older - but best to have them to get him through the cold winter months.

Creativity - to come up with games/entertainment that all involves him not moving. There are alot of boring hours ahead to get him through - it will be a test as to who goes insane first :p . Teaching him silly tricks etc will keep his mind off being crated. On the weekends I would take Chloe slowly out to a lovely sunny place in the backyard (whilst on her toilet break and always on lead) and we would just lie and let her sun herself- just to get her somewhere different but still not moving.

Most of all, just keep him off his feet as much as possible for the first few weeks (toilet breaks the exception), keep him off slippery surfaces, take away anything he may trip on, slip on, get caught on etc.

He's lucky he still has his cast on - it does slow them right down. Chloe's first let came home with no cast, the second leg had a cast when she came home that she chewed off the first night she was home and I was stuck cutting the rest of it off at 4am in the morning with not a decent pair of scissors in the house.

Hoping that he recovers well. Inevitably all joint injuries will result in arthritis (sadly) but keeping him light and muscular will help when he's older and it starts to creep in. Cartrophen and joint supplements will see him through many years hopefully before any occasional meds are needed.

Best wishes to him and his family!

[huski]

Thanks so much guys!!

Kelly - thanks for your very helpful post. Does anyone think that anti-arthritis (assuming it is Cartrophen) should be needed every month for the rest of his life? Will they do much to help him on that regular a basis?

Edited April 26, 2009 by huski

[Kelly_Louise]

Personally, I wouldnt think that it would be needed anywhere near that much - unless there is something seriously wrong there. But in saying that Im not a vet... if someone told me that about Chloe, then I would have thought twice about operating on her if she was still going to need shots every month for life.

Chloe has had both her legs done, tibial wedge osteotomy on both with meniscus removed - and she has 2 lots of 4 weekly shots a year. It gets her through nicely (and she also has Previcox on hand if she has a bad day or overdoes it too much). Arthritic changes may occur a bit faster than normal with the meniscus removed and theres not much that can stop this.

Cartrophen will help, but I fail to see why it would be needed so often due to cruciate surgery? Chloe's surgeon predicted it would be years before Chloe needed any type of full time medication - and so far he's been right. She still has only 2 doses of Cartrophen per year, and has a Previcox maybe once a month or so. So we still have lots of room to up her Cartrophen intake as she gets older and arthritis gets nastier (mind you she has mild elbow dysplasia that no one ever knew about - so arthritic changes in her front legs and also quite a bit of arthritis had already set in before anyone could tell us why Chloe was lame and we took her straight to the specialist). I guess he is a believer of starting off only when needed, so that as things get worse there are still more that can be done (if that makes sense).

Perhaps there are other issues? Or perhaps their surgeon has a different approach? I've just not heard of Cartrophen been given that frequently (although I think I did read someone using it that often for hip dysplasia when not opting for surgery). I had also read somewhere (but cant quote I read things about dogs arthritis etc constantly) that mentioned that the effectiveness of Cartrophen may wane with overuse or over time. Of course that is to be expected as arthritis or joint problems would also be getting worse (and its not a cure - arthritis will still come) - but not sure if any studies have been done on this or if this is a fact. If ongoing shots and meds will be needed so early on, maybe he would be a good candidate for the new joint treatment using stem cells?

IMHO, and it is just my opinion and the surgeon's recommendations should be followed, but I'd see how he heals up after the surgery before going gung ho on the Cartrophen - try the other natural methods such as strengthening the muscles, getting weight off and supplements. Have one course of Cartrophen for cold winter months, and see how he goes from there.

Just out of curiosity, what type of surgery was performed to correct the blown cruciates? Perhaps this may be why the after care is different?

ETA - just read that the knee wasnt fully repairable - perhaps this is why?

Edited April 26, 2009 by Kelly_Louise

[puggy_puggy]

Carrots and celary are good alternative treats that don't contain many calories.

As others have said if your dog has leg problems it needs to be skinny.

Edited April 27, 2009 by puggy_puggy

[huski]

Thanks for the ideas guys. Will pass them all on to my cousin

[huski]

Just bumping this up as it looks like I will be house sitting for my cousin for a few days over the next two weeks (she has two business trips to make) to look after little Harry.

His cast has come off and he will be safely contained during the day when I'm at work, but I was wondering if anyone had any tips for mentally stimulating him to give him an outlet for his energy? He is a very energetic dog.

Any tricks I could teach him that wouldn't put a lot of pressure on his leg? I think he knows all the basic commands, although I have been thinking I could teach him purely voice commands or hand signals if he doesn't know one or the other, and maybe do something like TOT with him? Any ideas? Any toys that are good to keep him occupied during the day apart from a kong?

[fbaudry]

Just bumping this up as it looks like I will be house sitting for my cousin for a few days over the next two weeks (she has two business trips to make) to look after little Harry.

His cast has come off and he will be safely contained during the day when I'm at work, but I was wondering if anyone had any tips for mentally stimulating him to give him an outlet for his energy? He is a very energetic dog.

Any tricks I could teach him that wouldn't put a lot of pressure on his leg? I think he knows all the basic commands, although I have been thinking I could teach him purely voice commands or hand signals if he doesn't know one or the other, and maybe do something like TOT with him? Any ideas? Any toys that are good to keep him occupied during the day apart from a kong?

Not sure I would be going through too much basic commands/change of position.... when my older boy had a snapped cruciate ligament, getting up or sitting down were actually painful for him (as was standing up for too long).... I think Kongs and chew toys are the way to go...

If he likes soft toys, you might want to look at the Kyjen range (one of the DOLers, Wagsalot, sell them)... they are like soft puzzles, where the dog has to extract eggs / sof toys out of their nest...

[puggy_puggy]

My solutions for entertainng Poppy are carrying her around, having her sitting on my lap, carrots, celary and when all else fails taking her to bed and snoozing with her. She has plenty of squeeky toys & chew toys for her cage.