Erny Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) Well I could tell you a few things about Casey Beach vets, but I won't, somethings are best left not said. That's a very obscure response. Should it have been said at all? It should of been advised. What do you mean by your last response? Are you purposefully being very cryptic? Edited June 8, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 One gets the feeling that there will be those who are unhappy where ever they go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Nicestman, Poodle and Emma's Mum - can I ask what you all do for work? If you don't know by now what I do I recon you will never work it out. Stormie ..... "Nicestman77" includes this in the personal profile page : Grooming,Clipper Blade Sharpening,Retail, Helping Groomers/Breeders with clipper blade problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum to Emma Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 If you think that all vets are too expensive for you, the (here comes the old chestnut), don't get a pet. That's a novel approach, Paula. I was thinking exactly the same thing. So owning and caring for an animal should be a privilege only offered to the wealthy? The pensioner who lives from one pension cheque to the next isn't entitled to the company of a pet because they can't afford the inflated medication charges that vets think are their due "because they have a university degree"? We are not arguing here about the consultation fees of vets and vet specialists. They should be (and are) on par with GPs and specialist medical practitioners. We are debating the justification of charging inflated prices for medication simply to shore up the bottom line. If nothing else this leaves vets wide open to accusations of over medicating our pets. If some vets can't make the living they aspire to by such back-door methods, perhaps they should think of getting out of the business. After all, at least in the cities, there seems to be more vets than GPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 So owning and caring for an animal should be a privilege only offered to the wealthy? I don't really want to enter the argument of whether Vets over charge or not - I think that's a personal thing that relates to any business and is the business proprietor's right to conduct as he/she thinks fit. Just as it is the customer's right to go there or not - whether that be for the first time, or for any other additional times in the future. As a dog trainer/behaviourist, I know for a fact there are many out there who don't perceive the amount of money, time and travel that goes into learning what we know and to keep abreast of current related matters and to continue our education. So I do appreciate the feeling when people criticise for the amount they might pay for a lesson/consultation - something that might even last them a lifetime or at least the lifetime of their pet and the fact that they themselves didn't have to go to the time, trouble and expense to learn it themselves. But in response to what you've written above, MtE ..... there are many things that I would consider to be privileges that I can't afford that others can. That's life. I do agree that it is nice for the elderly to be able to share the benefits that dogs can bring, but to own one they must be able to reasonably afford its care. Therapy dogs are very good in instances where for various reasons it is not possible or feasable for these people to own a dog. Not as ideal for the person, I'm sure, but it is at least goes part way towards a compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Dealing with the animals is the easy bit, as long as you get someone else to hold the bitey end. A gimp mask would be the way to go - that way the vets dont have to listen to the whingers complaining about markups while they do their job and treat the animals. If you have ever addressed a group of people polarised by a profession or a religion then you know how difficult it is to discuss an issue using logical argument. Replies about other businesses that derive there sole income from the sale of goods, not knowing what coles pay for lamb (you can get a ball park figure if you follow market pricing) the amount of schooling and it goes on. Many replies have made assumptions about me that have no basis of fact. I suggest you go and talk to the general public and break down a vet bill and discuss the mark up of medications. See what reaction you get. But that in itself wouldnt be a true representation of figures. If you were going to show the public the mark up on drugs, then I would also want to be showing them the annual expenditures of running the clinic. Poodle, I'm still not sure what you're getting at with this topic. The mark-ups are there because thats how the business needs to be run to make a profit. There are HUGE outgoing costs to running a clinic and I can say without a doubt, if we didn't have the mark-ups on our drugs, we would be running the business at a loss. Isn't the point of running any business, to make a profit and keep it running? I'd understand what you were saying if all vets were millionaires, but the fact is, they're not. The mark-ups are what they are, to keep things running at a profit. The RRP has been set by the manufacturer for a reason, like with anything that you buy in a store. Like with anything, until you are in the profession and have a FIRST hand glimpse of how things are run, you can't really complain because you just don't understand what's involved. Mum to Emma - can you please give me an example of huge mark-ups on medications. When you buy eye drops or whatever from the vet, how do YOU know personally, that there's been a massive mark up? What are you comparing it to? I genuinely want to know because lots of people seem to be comparing the price of drugs sold at a vet to them being sold through a chemist, and this is by no way a justification because vets don't pay the same price as the chemists do for their drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 So owning and caring for an animal should be a privilege only offered to the wealthy? Not so much the wealthy, but only for those who can afford it - like anything in life really. I'm sure there'd be tonnes of people out there who'd love to have their own horse, but they don't, because they can't afford the costs. My agistors don't give me a discount on my horses board and feed, they offer a service for those who can afford to use it. That's their price and if I can't afford that weekly cost, then either I shouldn't have a horse, or I need to find somewhere else. Is that not reasonable? Is it fair for someone to take on the responsibility of a pet knowing they can't afford it? I do belive it is a privilege to own a pet and not everyone's given right. Either you can budget for the costs, or you can't - it's really that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodle3081 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 So owning and caring for an animal should be a privilege only offered to the wealthy? Not so much the wealthy, but only for those who can afford it - like anything in life really. I'm sure there'd be tonnes of people out there who'd love to have their own horse, but they don't, because they can't afford the costs. My agistors don't give me a discount on my horses board and feed, they offer a service for those who can afford to use it. That's their price and if I can't afford that weekly cost, then either I shouldn't have a horse, or I need to find somewhere else. Is that not reasonable? Is it fair for someone to take on the responsibility of a pet knowing they can't afford it? I do belive it is a privilege to own a pet and not everyone's given right. Either you can budget for the costs, or you can't - it's really that simple. If the average person owns a pet, what is the most costly vet procedure they could be expected to pay? Would anyone out there know this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Unfortunately it is fairly typical of a lot of average Joe Blows. Always blaming someone else, and wanting what they cannot necessarily afford. I would have another dog except for the fact I believe I would find it harder to meet the costs involved. I COULD do it although at times it may be harder, however I choose not to get another dog so then I can more easily afford what I have. Vets do have huge running costs and it is MUCH easier to work with animals that cannot tell you what is wrong, than some of the owners who expect a lot for not much and complain most of the time! My vets are not cheap, the other one in town is. I go to my vets because I believe they offer a far superior service and I am happy to pay for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 The mark-ups are there because thats how the business needs to be run to make a profit. There are HUGE outgoing costs to running a clinic and I can say without a doubt, if we didn't have the mark-ups on our drugs, we would be running the business at a loss. Isn't the point of running any business, to make a profit and keep it running? I'd understand what you were saying if all vets were millionaires, but the fact is, they're not. The mark-ups are what they are, to keep things running at a profit. The RRP has been set by the manufacturer for a reason, like with anything that you buy in a store. Like with anything, until you are in the profession and have a FIRST hand glimpse of how things are run, you can't really complain because you just don't understand what's involved. Mum to Emma - can you please give me an example of huge mark-ups on medications. When you buy eye drops or whatever from the vet, how do YOU know personally, that there's been a massive mark up? What are you comparing it to? I genuinely want to know because lots of people seem to be comparing the price of drugs sold at a vet to them being sold through a chemist, and this is by no way a justification because vets don't pay the same price as the chemists do for their drugs. Very well said stormie. Wonders why the people complaining about the price of vet meds don't get off their arses and enrol themselves in to Vet Science at uni. When they have graduated they can supply everyone with cost price meds. I would like to see how long their buisness lasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 So owning and caring for an animal should be a privilege only offered to the wealthy? What a load of garbage. I did not say that was the case. Most people on this forum would not be multi millionaires but they dont whinge about the fact their vets are running a business and know full well they are going to be hit with fees when their animals get sick or injured. dont like vet fees - dont own a pet. I dont know how many times that needs to be repeated to sink in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) So owning and caring for an animal should be a privilege only offered to the wealthy? Not so much the wealthy, but only for those who can afford it - like anything in life really. I'm sure there'd be tonnes of people out there who'd love to have their own horse, but they don't, because they can't afford the costs. My agistors don't give me a discount on my horses board and feed, they offer a service for those who can afford to use it. That's their price and if I can't afford that weekly cost, then either I shouldn't have a horse, or I need to find somewhere else. Is that not reasonable? Is it fair for someone to take on the responsibility of a pet knowing they can't afford it? I do belive it is a privilege to own a pet and not everyone's given right. Either you can budget for the costs, or you can't - it's really that simple. If the average person owns a pet, what is the most costly vet procedure they could be expected to pay? Would anyone out there know this? They could pay anything! In this day and age with the things that specialists can do, they could pay up to $20k! The thing is, when you make the decision to buy a pet, anything could happen. You could be one of the lucky ones who buys a puppy, gets it desexed, vaccinated etc, and it never has anything go wrong until it gets old and needs treatment for its arthritis. OR you could get a puppy that jumps off the back verandah and breaks both its front legs. Or have one that develops hip dysplasia early needing life long treatment, or atopy which can very expensive to treat. People need to do their research before they buy a pet and make themselves aware of what possible costs they could be about to incur. It's like when you buy a car or a house. You work out how much that car or house is going to cost you and you make a decision as to whether or not you can afford it. The same should be done when people think about buying a pet. Take into account everything that could go wrong, and if you can afford it, then great, but if you can't, rather than go ahead and complain about the fees, maybe put it off until you know you can budget for it. The average person should have insurance, that way, when something unexpected occurs, money won't be too much of a problem Edited June 8, 2009 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 There are many procedures that can be expensive that the average pet owner may end up requiring. Broken legs, ruptured cruciates, slipping patellas, GDV, poisons (rat bait, snake bite, tick) are the common ones I can think of at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodle3081 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 If you think that all vets are too expensive for you, the (here comes the old chestnut), don't get a pet. That's a novel approach, Paula. I was thinking exactly the same thing. So owning and caring for an animal should be a privilege only offered to the wealthy? The pensioner who lives from one pension cheque to the next isn't entitled to the company of a pet because they can't afford the inflated medication charges that vets think are their due "because they have a university degree"? We are not arguing here about the consultation fees of vets and vet specialists. They should be (and are) on par with GPs and specialist medical practitioners. We are debating the justification of charging inflated prices for medication simply to shore up the bottom line. If nothing else this leaves vets wide open to accusations of over medicating our pets. If some vets can't make the living they aspire to by such back-door methods, perhaps they should think of getting out of the business. After all, at least in the cities, there seems to be more vets than GPs. Unfortunatey Mum to Emma this has been stated several times and they just done get it. Charge the true cost of the service, I have said this numerous times. I do not have a problem with vet bills, and was about to have my dogs cateracts removed costing $4000. I had the total costing of the procedure prior and the drugs were a minor component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 The average person should have insurance, that way, when something unexpected occurs, money won't be too much of a problem Couldn't agree more. If they cannot afford around $20 to $25 dollars a month to not have to worry about coming up with potentially thousands, then they really should think twice about having a pet. I have insurance for just that reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodle3081 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 So owning and caring for an animal should be a privilege only offered to the wealthy? Not so much the wealthy, but only for those who can afford it - like anything in life really. I'm sure there'd be tonnes of people out there who'd love to have their own horse, but they don't, because they can't afford the costs. My agistors don't give me a discount on my horses board and feed, they offer a service for those who can afford to use it. That's their price and if I can't afford that weekly cost, then either I shouldn't have a horse, or I need to find somewhere else. Is that not reasonable? Is it fair for someone to take on the responsibility of a pet knowing they can't afford it? I do belive it is a privilege to own a pet and not everyone's given right. Either you can budget for the costs, or you can't - it's really that simple. If the average person owns a pet, what is the most costly vet procedure they could be expected to pay? Would anyone out there know this? They could pay anything! In this day and age with the things that specialists can do, they could pay up to $20k! The average person should have insurance, that way, when something unexpected occurs, money won't be too much of a problem Insurance what a solution. The vets will charge more because you have insurance, the insurance company needs to make a profit. Great for the consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Insurance what a solution. The vets will charge more because you have insurance, the insurance company needs to make a profit. Great for the consumer. Here come the conspiracy theories w00t w00t. There's a thread in OT with your name on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 If you think that all vets are too expensive for you, the (here comes the old chestnut), don't get a pet. That's a novel approach, Paula. I was thinking exactly the same thing. So owning and caring for an animal should be a privilege only offered to the wealthy? The pensioner who lives from one pension cheque to the next isn't entitled to the company of a pet because they can't afford the inflated medication charges that vets think are their due "because they have a university degree"? We are not arguing here about the consultation fees of vets and vet specialists. They should be (and are) on par with GPs and specialist medical practitioners. We are debating the justification of charging inflated prices for medication simply to shore up the bottom line. If nothing else this leaves vets wide open to accusations of over medicating our pets. If some vets can't make the living they aspire to by such back-door methods, perhaps they should think of getting out of the business. After all, at least in the cities, there seems to be more vets than GPs. Unfortunatey Mum to Emma this has been stated several times and they just done get it. Charge the true cost of the service, I have said this numerous times. I do not have a problem with vet bills, and was about to have my dogs cateracts removed costing $4000. I had the total costing of the procedure prior and the drugs were a minor component. You failed to comment on the people who have a consultation, and then return for repeat prescriptions. Why should Joe Blow pay more for his consult, to pay for the many clients that come back each month to stock up on arthritis treatments, or their atopy meds? We have the mark up on the drugs, to keep the consult fee down. As has been said before, not everyone that comes in for a consult goes away with drugs!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Insurance what a solution. The vets will charge more because you have insurance, the insurance company needs to make a profit. Great for the consumer. And I thought I was cynical! I am guessing that anything anybody says you will argue about and any solutions will be met with a similar attitude to above. Some people there is just no pleasing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 So owning and caring for an animal should be a privilege only offered to the wealthy? Not so much the wealthy, but only for those who can afford it - like anything in life really. I'm sure there'd be tonnes of people out there who'd love to have their own horse, but they don't, because they can't afford the costs. My agistors don't give me a discount on my horses board and feed, they offer a service for those who can afford to use it. That's their price and if I can't afford that weekly cost, then either I shouldn't have a horse, or I need to find somewhere else. Is that not reasonable? Is it fair for someone to take on the responsibility of a pet knowing they can't afford it? I do belive it is a privilege to own a pet and not everyone's given right. Either you can budget for the costs, or you can't - it's really that simple. If the average person owns a pet, what is the most costly vet procedure they could be expected to pay? Would anyone out there know this? They could pay anything! In this day and age with the things that specialists can do, they could pay up to $20k! The average person should have insurance, that way, when something unexpected occurs, money won't be too much of a problem Insurance what a solution. The vets will charge more because you have insurance, the insurance company needs to make a profit. Great for the consumer. There really is no pleasing you is there. We don't know of our clients who has insurance. We charge them for what we did and many send the forms away themselves. So no, we don't charge those with insurance more. Paranoid much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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