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Troy

Pointer

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Troy   

The Pointer

ANKC Standard

(from http://www.ankc.org.au/home/breeds_details.asp?bid=97 )

Group: Group 3 (Gundogs)

General Appearance: Symmetrical and well built all over, general outline a series of graceful curves. A strong but lissom appearance.

Characteristics: Aristocratic. Alert with appearance of strength, endurance and speed.

Temperament: Kind, even disposition.

Head And Skull: Skull of medium breath, in proportion to length of foreface, stop well defined, pronounced occipital bone. Nose and eye rims dark, but may be lighter in the case of a lemon and white coloured dog. Nostrils wide, soft and moist. Muzzle somewhat concave, ending on level with nostrils, giving a slightly dish-faced appearance. Slight depression under eyes, cheek bones not prominent, well developed soft lip.

Eyes: Same distance from occiput as from nostrils, bright and kindly in expression. Either hazel or brown according to colour of coat. Neither bold nor staring, not looking down the nose.

Ears: Leathers thin, set on fairly high, lying close to head, of medium length, slightly pointed at tips.

Mouth: Jaws strong, with perfect, regular and complete scissor bite, i.e. Upper teeth closely overlapping lower teeth and set square to the jaws.

Neck: Long, muscular, slightly arched, springing cleanly from shoulders and free from throatiness.

Forequarters: Shoulders long, sloping and well-laid back. Chest just wide enough for plenty of heart room. Brisket well let down, to level with elbows. Forelegs straight and firm, with good oval bone, with back sinews strong and visible. Knee joint flat with front leg and protruding very little on inside. Pasterns, lengthy, strong and resilient. Slightly sloping.

Body: Well sprung ribs carried well back gradually falling away at strong muscular and slightly arched loins. Short coupled. Haunch bones well spaced and prominent, not above level of back.

Hindquarters: Very muscular. Well turned stifles. Good expanse of first and second thigh. Hocks well let down.

Feet: Oval, well knit, arched toes, well cushioned.

Tail: Medium length, thick at root, tapering gradually to a point. Well covered with close hair, carried on a level with back, with no upward curl. In movement, tail should lash from side to side.

Gait/Movement: Smooth covering plenty of ground. Driving hind action, elbows neither in nor out. Definitely not a hackney action.

Coat: Fine, short, hard and evenly distributed, perfectly smooth and straight with decided sheen.

Colour: Usual colours are lemon and white, orange and white, liver and white, and black and white. Self colours and tri-colours are also correct.

Sizes: Height:

Dogs 63-69 cms (25-27 ins) at withers

Bitches 61-66 cms (24-26 ins) at withers

Faults: Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog, and on the dog�s ability to perform its traditional work.

Notes: Male animals should have two apparently normal testicles fully descended into the scrotum.

QUESTIONS

1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc)

2. Where and why was the breed first developed?

3. How common is it in Australia?

4. What is the average lifespan?

5. What is the general temperament/personality?

6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult?

7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with?

8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods?

9. How much grooming is required?

10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)?

11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of?

12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be)

If you wish to contribute to the knowledge about this breed, please answer the above questions. (Copy and paste them into a new post).

  • Please only answer if you breed or own a pedigree example of this breed.
  • You do not have to answer all questions
  • Please keep posts limited to answering questions or for asking further questions if you require more (or expanded) information.

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Ashanali   

1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc)

owner, breeder, exhibitor

2. Where and why was the breed first developed?

(google is my friend. I'm sick at the moment and not making much sense - easier to cut and paste the relevant stuff)

The Pointer originates in England. It was bred to 'point' out small game to hunters, such as rabbit and hare and later, birds. It's origins can be dated back to the 1600's

The Pointer is also referred to as the English Pointer. Most of the development of the English Pointer was undertaken by the breeder William Arkwright at the end if the 18th century. An excellent locator, the Pointer was crossed with the old Spanish Pointer and a lighter-boned variety of Foxhound, Greyhounds, Bloodhounds and Spaniels providing a combination of speed and setting skills. Crosses with setters gave a more receptive response to training and made them less inclined to try to catch the game. In the early 1700's, wing shooting, the act or practice of shooting at game birds in flight, came into fashion. The Pointer proved to be an exceptional dog for wing shooting and Pointers became popular for recreational hunting on large, wealthy estates. Two pointers, referred to as a brace, were generally used so that the hunter could locate the bird precisely by cross-referencing the dogs ' points '.

The first dog show held in Australia was for Pointers and Setters only (not sure of the year).

3. How common is it in Australia?

Not common at all and it's a shock when people recognise the breed. They are slowly building a good reputation as a family dog.

4. What is the average lifespan?

12 years

5. What is the general temperament/personality?

Alert, eager to please, can be sooky and can be attention seekers. A generally happy dog.

6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult?

Pointers NEED daily exercise and without it they go crazy. At least 30 minutes of activity in the morning and at least an hour in the afternoon/evening. Pointers love their zoomy time and without it can become destructive. If you can't get outside due to bad weather etc, you will need to find an indoor game for brain activity instead. (a popular indoor game is hiding toys and letting pointers find them. They have an extremely acute sense of smell.)

7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with?

Yes and no. A relaxed and easy going pointer could easily be handled by a first timer, some more energetic and intelligent dogs take a bit more effort. A good breeder should be able to match the right puppy with the right home.

8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods?

Again this depends on the dog. Pointers love company and if they are alone for long periods some of them will become destructive (digging, chewing, escaping). Most pointers are happiest when sitting at your feet or even on your lap.

9. How much grooming is required?

very little. Nails and a bath every now and then. However even though they are smooth coated dogs, they have a dense double coat and you really need to get right in and scrub to get the dirt out. They also drop alot more hair than people realise.

10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)?

Younger Pointers can be too boisterous but not necessarily. Out of all the breeds I've been involved with over the years, I have found Pointers and Greyhounds to be the best and most reliable with children. Even now our 10 month old feral pointer loves my 14 month old twin boys and is surprisingly gentle with them.

11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of?

Yes. Unfortunately Pointers can have health issues that can't be tested for at this point in time (hopefully with all the advances happening this will change sometime in the future.) The issues are becoming less common but there is always a chance of them appearing in the lines.

Epilepsy - this can rear it's head from time to time, usually starting when the dog is around 3-4 years of age.

Dwarfism - shows up in pups around 5 weeks of age

Pancreatic issues

Thyroid issues

Pointers rarely have hip/elbow issues.

12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be)

I think the most important thing is to view the parents of the pup (where possible). Some pointers are shy, some are happy and outgoing and all these are fine, but overtly aggressive or fearful pointers should be avoided at all costs.

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huski   

What are Pointers like to train? Are they fairly biddable or can they be stubborn?

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Ashanali   

A little from column A and a little from column B.

They are very intelligent and will work things out fast - none of mine have had formal training but they know they aren't welcome in the house or car unless invited (front door will be wide open and they will wait outside - this doesn't count for Kayo who is still learning the rules) and Sunni can be left in a crate with the door wide open and won't step out unless you put a lead around her neck.

The one pointer that I tried obedience and agility with many years ago was a very quick learner. The battle with him was to keep his focus as any movement or scents that were interesting and he would completely forget what was asked of him. If you could keep his focus, he was brilliant!

Essentially they are extremely eager to please and HATE correction (correct a pointer and it's as if the world is crumbling around them. It's all an act but they do it so well. :love: ) - Pointers will try very hard to make you happy!

Edited by Ashanali

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Showpony   

Just thought I'd add a little more, re the history of the Pointer.(Sorry haven't figured out the cut and paste thing!)

Pointers are thought to be one of the oldest sporting breed, seen in paintings dating from the 1500's. It is generally though that pointing and setting dogs originated in Europe. Hounds and pointing dogs were called brach (braque). When they exactly came to England is hard to pin point. There are records in the 16th Century stating that the Duke of Nothumberland and at the same time the Earl of Surrey were the first the train setting type dogs.

It has been established that 'true' pointing dogs were introduced to England in 1700. This is about the time of the War of the Spanish Succession. It is thought that British Army officers serving in this war, were so impressed with the pointing dogs they saw in Spain, during the 9 years spent there, they returned home with the breed. It can also be established that most other pointing breeds have come from the same source, Spain.

The Spanish Pointer, was a slow but accurate worker. But as gun technology improved (becoming faster to reload) a faster dog was required. And this is where the English breeders came to the fore. They blended the Spanish Pointer creating the dog we know today. It is thought, inititially this blending was done by selective breeding not by crossing. Crossing did happen later on down the track during the 19th Century.

Edited by Showpony

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I will comment from the point of view of somebody who has some few years labrador experience (owning, showing, breeding, rescue) and is new to owning a pointer.

I've been the proud owner of a pointer since November last year and the things that have stood out to me with him (which seem to be typical for the breed) is that

a) He doesn't cope well if I'm angry with him - not quite as resilient as labradors. Much more cautious in approaching things/people/dogs which is refreshing!! He doesn't run up to people and bowl them over.

b) he eats a small sh*tload of food and still has ribs showing - for anyone considering a pointer, be prepared because it can be more expensive than you'd expect.

c) His loving temperament is to die for. As soon as I touch his head this beautiful calmness comes over him. He never seems to tire of being patted and will spend the whole time staring at me adoringly. He's very snuggly and will rest his forehead against me while I scratch his chest.

d) He is quite trainable but still excitable. At ten months I am now seeing an inkling of maturity which is really nice. He was doing really well at obedience as a pup but we're having a break at the moment due to other committments.

e) My vet and vet chiro have both made comments about the very low levels of health problems that pointers seem to encounter.

f) Pointers seem to like digging big holes. I'm lucky in that mine only digs in pot plants (the plants are long dead).

g) I am totally in love with this dog.

h) SELF COLOURS ARE OKAY AND ACCEPTABLE WITHIN THE STANDARD (see above standard regarding colours). :rolleyes: :thumbsup: Not only that, they are beautiful and handsome. :laugh:

This is what a self/solid coloured orange pointer looks like.

3686256612_3cdb607cd1.jpg

Edited by Pointeeblab

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What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc)

Owner, exhibitor and breeder.

How common is it in Australia?

Sadly, not common enough! They are so well suited to our warmer climate, and need such a minimal amount of grooming. I feel however their popularity is growing as they become more recognised for their wonderful family pet potential.

What is the average lifespan?

Approx 12 years.

What is the general temperament/personality?

Happy and friendly dogs who love human contact. When in the home they are most happy to be around their human campanions either at their feet or on the couch! They are eager to please. They should never be agressive nor overly timid.

They will bark an alarm at the door if there is a stranger.

If you own more than one, you might find that if giving one a pat, the other will also push its way in and want its own share of the pats! They can be a little attention seeking comming over to you and making it obvious they want pats.

They get along well with dogs and people outside of the home.

A pointer does not need a heavy hand for training.

On the whole a generally happy and easy going breed.

How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult?

Pointers really need to be exercised on a daily basis. Our dogs are exercised for 1&1/2 hours in the morning and get a short run in the evenings of around 30 minutes. This fits into out lifestyle best. Idealy they must get at least 1 hours of free off the lead running daily. They are most happy when exercised daily and are much better behaved dogs.

Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with?

Yes. If you are dedicated to their exercise and can give them the love and attention they crave pointers are a dog that a first time owner can have. Your breeder will be able to discuss your home situation and choose the right pup to suit your needs, remembering that each pup is different, some being more excitable and some more placid and easy going.

Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods?

This depends a lot on the personality of your pointer. Some will be happy to occupy themseves for long periods of time (chewing bones or toys etc) esspecially if given the correct amount of exercise and stimulation a pointer needs. However some when bored they can become destructive, barking, digging or chewing. They are most happy when they are with their human companion.

How much grooming is required?

Pointers are extreemly low maintenence. Just a wash and dry every so often and cutting any long claws. We also recomend checking your pointers ears on a weekly basis and cleaning when nessesary as being a droopy eared breed ear infections can occur and are very uncomfortable for the poor dog involved.

Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)?

This really depends on the dog. As youngsters pointers can be a little too bouncy and knock small children or the elderly over, simply because of their sheer size. Unless trained as a youngster they are prone to jumping on people so it is essential that they are taught not to jump. Our adult dogs do very well with children, on the whole seeming to understand not to be too rough.

Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of?

As discussed earlier there ae a few problems which do crop up from time to time in pointers including dwarfism, epilepsy, thyroid and pancreatic issues. Other issues not discussed are skin problems.

When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be)

Ask firstly if they are a registered breeder. Ask of the dogs have been vaccinated and vet checked (and microchipped if applicable). Ask to view the mother of the litter and if possible the father. Pointers are never to be agressive or overly fearful. Some will be more excitable to meet you than others which may hang back and take you in before wanting to meet you, these are all perfectly acceptable pointer personalities.

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Pointees   

QUESTIONS

1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc)

First time owner.

2. Where and why was the breed first developed? This has already been answered earlier on.

3. How common is it in Australia? Not very common. I have only really seen this breed with breeders/exhibitors.

4. What is the average lifespan? 10-12 wonderful years.

5. What is the general temperament/personality? WONDERFUL! Intelligent, loveable and affectionate. Great family dogs who love a good run but will also lie at your feet! They are good in the house, or in the backyard. They have a confident, graceful look about them. :cheer:

6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult? Good walk morning or night. Or a good old fashion trail ride (good to follow the horses).

7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with? They can be easily! It would depend on the first time owner though.

8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods? Some Pointers can, some can't. It is the same with any breed of dog though.

9. How much grooming is required? Not much grooming is required. A quick brush once a week to remove loose hair is all that is needed.

10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)? Some can be. I have found that my first Pointer is wonderful with children! They can run up and hug her and she will just stand there and wag her tail. She won't get too excited and jump around, and she doesn't get stand off-ish. :cheer:

11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of? There are a few- they are noted below.

12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be)

Ask to see the parents. Ask what the puppies have been brought up on (food), if they have had toys, house trained, socialized with other dogs or other animals, sozalized with people, where they have been living, etc.

Just the general questions anyone should ask when buying any breed.

**On the whole, they are a great breed, and I'm glad I bought my girl. :cheer:

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Showpony   

Have a very serious question re coats and colour. We know that Pointers have 4 base colours black, liver, orange and lemon. They can also come in solid colours and tri colour. They can also be heavily marked or spotty....................BUT why do they only ever shed white hairs :laugh: which can be clearly seen over furniture, clothes, curtains etc. And knowing this why do us dumb handlers wear black!

Edited by Showpony

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Ashanali   
Have a very serious question re coats and colour. We know that Pointers have 4 base colours black, liver, orange and lemon. They can also come in solid colours and tri colour. They can also be heavily marked or spotty....................BUT why do they only ever shed white hairs ;) which can be clearly seen over furniture, clothes, curtains etc. And knowing this why do us dumb handlers wear black!

:love:

Actually on a serious note, the best way to get the hairs out of the carpet in your car are using rubber thong. Rub it hard on the carpet and it will gather it up into a little pile that can be easily picked up or vaccumed. ;)

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Just q quick question, I thought I read somewhere that solid colours used to be more prevalent but in terms of showing are not regarded as favourably.

The few solids I have seen are beautiful IMO, is there a sense that that is being bred out (which would be a real shame I think).

Is it anything to do with differentiating yourself from the GSPs?

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Ashanali   
Just q quick question, I thought I read somewhere that solid colours used to be more prevalent but in terms of showing are not regarded as favourably.

The few solids I have seen are beautiful IMO, is there a sense that that is being bred out (which would be a real shame I think).

Is it anything to do with differentiating yourself from the GSPs?

Solid colours are quite popular in Scandanavian countries as they hunt in the snow. The population of Pointers over in places like Norway and Finland would be 50/50 solids to parti colours as solid coloured dogs are more easily seen by the hunters. In countries without snow, the dogs with more white are easily visible by hunters. There are very few areas of Australia where hunters hunt in the snow, so over time, solids were less desirable and not often seen here. This went over into the show ring where 'prettier' parti-colours were favoured over plainer solids.

But they're not being bred out. A few people love the solids and plan on keeping them happening in the future. :love:

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Just q quick question, I thought I read somewhere that solid colours used to be more prevalent but in terms of showing are not regarded as favourably.

The few solids I have seen are beautiful IMO, is there a sense that that is being bred out (which would be a real shame I think).

Is it anything to do with differentiating yourself from the GSPs?

Solid colours are quite popular in Scandanavian countries as they hunt in the snow. The population of Pointers over in places like Norway and Finland would be 50/50 solids to parti colours as solid coloured dogs are more easily seen by the hunters. In countries without snow, the dogs with more white are easily visible by hunters. There are very few areas of Australia where hunters hunt in the snow, so over time, solids were less desirable and not often seen here. This went over into the show ring where 'prettier' parti-colours were favoured over plainer solids.

But they're not being bred out. A few people love the solids and plan on keeping them happening in the future. ;)

Yeah :love:

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Showpony   

There is a very good article on breeding solid Pointers if you go to the Solivia Pointers website.

Yeah ;)

Edited by Showpony

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