Fading Pigment On Nose - Labrador

[Tapua]

Hi I am new to Labs (3 years) and I have only had blacks till recently - I noticed with one of my yellows has lovely dark pigmentation around her eyes and mouth and the pads of her feet but her nose tends to go pinkish in the winter and colours up black during summer, Lara is 16 months old. My newest yellow Mia who is 2 years old is more pink around the nose - has some black around her eyes and her mouth but not as good as Lara's and there is generally less or incomplete black pigmentation on the pads of her feet.

I was looking on a Lab website and they were saying the 'pinking of the nose' is due to age & lack of an enzyme and the enzyme is temperature sensitive - I have never head of it before and assummed it was a lack of black in the bloodlines - has any other Lab breeders heard of this and does this occure in other breeds?

I will only be putting the girls to black dogs anyway but I was curious about the condtion. Any information would be appreciated.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Tapua

[ellz]

Very common in many breeds. Google "winter nose" and you'll get lots of reading material.

[Tapua]

Very common in many breeds. Google "winter nose" and you'll get lots of reading material.

Thanks for that info Ellz - just reading a few articles about the condition - most suggest Vit C and B complex and Calcium helps the condition - can anyone tell me if they have tried it and if it works

Also I my guys feed is dusted with Brewers Yeast and Calcium Carbonate 3/4 times a week anyway - about a teaspoon between the two - should I give them more or something else - any ideas anyone?

Edited April 5, 2010 by Tapua

[rajacadoo]

Winter nose is also VERY common in the Basenjis as well .

[Lab lady]

Very normal in Yellows, i haven't found anything that stops it.

[SwaY]

De Nose Nos and Cherry Knoll black out will become your friend

[Bullbreedlover]

De Nose Nos and Cherry Knoll black out will become your friend

LOL.

we also call it a snow nose

some dogs also just are lacking good pigmentation.

not to be confused with a dudley nose which will not be black at all.

[Trisven13]

Winter nose is also VERY common in the Basenjis as well .

Same with Fauves.

[rajacadoo]

Completely OT, apologies to the OP .

Trisven13,

My daughter has had the joy of showing, I think, Daphne's sister, Calais (?SP), down here in Tassie... She really is taken with her. What gorgeous little dogs they are, and Calais just wants to have cuddles from anybody that gets close enough to her... She is very successful I might add . We quite often have the BOB Basenji, then just behind is BOB Calais, (Cos I just cant spell the breeds name at all !!!). Both shown by my girls ... (Sorry shameless brag there !!!)...

Edited April 5, 2010 by rajacadoo

[Tapua]

Thanks for the information everyone - I really appreciate it - just one more question - I will, of course, breed the bitch in question to a black (dominant black or black carrying yellow) - does breeding to a black reliably correct the pigment issue or is this an ongoing problem regardless of the selective breeding of yellows to black dogs ( that do not carry chocolate).

[Lab lady]

Is your question in relation to the 'winter nose' pigmentation?

Winter nose is not due to bad pigment as far as i am aware.

I have a 5 year old bitch that loses most of the blackness in her nose during winter and after she had litters but it returns to a normal black nose in the warmer months, she also has good pigment around her eyes, mouth and feet.

this is Lucy (on the right) taken in july. The other Lab is her daughter ( from a Yellow to Yellow mating) as of yet she hasn't had winter nose.

This is Lucy again taken in october

[Tapua]

Is your question in relation to the 'winter nose' pigmentation?

Winter nose is not due to bad pigment as far as i am aware.

I have a 5 year old bitch that loses most of the blackness in her nose during winter and after she had litters but it returns to a normal black nose in the warmer months, she also has good pigment around her eyes, mouth and feet.

this is Lucy (on the right) taken in july. The other Lab is her daughter ( from a Yellow to Yellow mating) as of yet she hasn't had winter nose.

This is Lucy again taken in october

That makes sense - thanks for that Lablady- I am still getting my head around the condition - I will still be putting my girl to a black because I think she needs better pigment/substance in general but the enzyme/sunlight factor is always going to be there I guess.

Here is the girl in question Mia

And her 1/2 sister Lara who does get winter nose but in general has better pigment around the eyes, head,earset etc.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Tapua

[ellz]

OK, from the extra information I would say that you are dealing with TWO situations. Yes, definitely a winter nose situation, but if you are talking a difference in overall pigmentation (not just the nose) in siblings then I'd say that looking at maintaining dark pigment should be a priority with the winter nose a secondary issue.

I don't know how the colour genetics work in labs but in American Cockers, if you breed buff to buff, unless there are black parents behind both, you generally get an overall lightening of the pigmentation (unless both parents carry the recessive chocolate gene, in which case you're more likely to get liver pigmentation which isn't incorrect but also isn't as attractive as black/dark brown pigmentation on the lighter coloured coat).

If you breed recessive to recessive, you will almost certainly achieve a "washing out" of pigmentation, maybe not in the first generation but subsequent generations. It is for this reason that some of the best buffs in American Cockerdom come from hybrid black x buff breedings. And many don't quite understand it, but a "true" silver is a black which lacks the ability to extend the black pigmentation to the hair whilst maintaining overall black characteristics such as pigmentation.

Very complicated stuff genetics, but I'd definitely look at the pedigrees to see where the washing out of pigment is coming from and try to breed away from it.

And then, at the same time, take extra pains to try for a good balance of A, D and E vitamins together with plenty of sunlight for the winter nose. Also, if you have plastic feed bowls or use plastic buckets for water, anecdotal evidence says that these can be detrimental to pigmentation too.

[Blakbelgian]

Coloured Schipps sometimes have a Snow Nose.

Try Seaweed kelp in the food for a couple of weeks, probably about 1 tsp.

Good for the coat too.

BB

[Tapua]

OK, from the extra information I would say that you are dealing with TWO situations. Yes, definitely a winter nose situation, but if you are talking a difference in overall pigmentation (not just the nose) in siblings then I'd say that looking at maintaining dark pigment should be a priority with the winter nose a secondary issue.

I don't know how the colour genetics work in labs but in American Cockers, if you breed buff to buff, unless there are black parents behind both, you generally get an overall lightening of the pigmentation (unless both parents carry the recessive chocolate gene, in which case you're more likely to get liver pigmentation which isn't incorrect but also isn't as attractive as black/dark brown pigmentation on the lighter coloured coat).

If you breed recessive to recessive, you will almost certainly achieve a "washing out" of pigmentation, maybe not in the first generation but subsequent generations. It is for this reason that some of the best buffs in American Cockerdom come from hybrid black x buff breedings. And many don't quite understand it, but a "true" silver is a black which lacks the ability to extend the black pigmentation to the hair whilst maintaining overall black characteristics such as pigmentation.

Very complicated stuff genetics, but I'd definitely look at the pedigrees to see where the washing out of pigment is coming from and try to breed away from it.

And then, at the same time, take extra pains to try for a good balance of A, D and E vitamins together with plenty of sunlight for the winter nose. Also, if you have plastic feed bowls or use plastic buckets for water, anecdotal evidence says that these can be detrimental to pigmentation too.

Yup have finally worked out about the winter nose bit - I just hadnt heard about 'winter nose' before.

The colour genetics behind the 2 1/2 sisters Lara's dam is a black and her sire is yellow she has good pigmentation.

Mia shares the same sire and her dam is a yellow. I am hoping if I put her to a decent black her pigmentation will improve.