Vaccinations....

[Brennan's Mum]

Brennan is due for her yearly vaccination in August. I have always followed the vet's orders such as getting her puppy shots. This will be her first vaccine since puppyhood ( she is almost 15months old).

I mentioned on facebook about 'bills coming all at once with vaccinations, dog rego and licence renewal'' and was told that vaccinations are a bad thing.

I know some people do not like vaccinations, and some go to holisitic vets.

I just want a balanced argument and information. Like anyone I want the best for my dog, and don't want to make choices ill-informed and without balanced arguments. I must admit I do not know much about the argument against vaccinations. Also I had always believed that your dog needed to be up to date on vaccinations in order to enjoy certain things such as agility, and other dog sports.

Any suggestions and information would be greatly appreciated. At this stage I still plan to vaccinate.

My apologies in advance if I do not get around to replying over the weekend. I am heading to visit my Mum so for the next 2 days my internet access will be limited.

[stormie]

Vaccinations are not a bad thing at all. It's the reason Australia has such a low incidents of diseases. The issue is more about vaccinating APPROPRIATELY, only if required. The annual vaccination regime is becoming a thing of the past, but it doesn't mean people shouldn't be vaccinating at all.

We would recommend you have this first annual injection, then go onto the 3 year protocol. Or, you could titre test triennially to ensure your dog still has immunity.

I know a few only do the puppy shots, but I think many recommend the puppy shots and the first annual, and then either no more at all, 3 yearly, or titre testing.

[Brennan's Mum]

Thanks I did a bit of reading and found that they were reccomending the 3 year vaccination after the 1st yearly one. So looks like we are definitely getting the first one at least.

[Diva]

We would recommend you have this first annual injection, then go onto the 3 year protocol. Or, you could titre test triennially to ensure your dog still has immunity.

After much thought, this is also what I settled on for mine. Full puppy shots, on whatever schedule the breeder uses, first yearly booster, then the 3 yearly protocol.

[Red Fox]

I also decided on giving the puppy shots and first yearly booster. I don't plan on giving any more and will titer test if need be, however I would consider a Parvac vaccine if my dogs levels were excessively low or if there was an outbreak of Parvo in my area

[Genabee]

When/if you ever go to put your dog in a boarding kennel, or enroll in obedience/juvenile classes, do they not require that the dog be fully vaccinated (presumably on a 12 monthly basis?)? Not that I am in a hurry to use those facilities, but you just never know....

Our local council also requires we provide up to date vaccination records for the dog, or they charge us a higher rate for council registration (which occurs every 12 months, I couldn't believe it!!!! Where I used to live it was once every three years).

As such, I've always been led to believe there is virtually no choice but to vaccinate the pooch.

[QWERTYASDFGH]

Just putting a question out there...

But if we don't vaccinate ourselves more than once when we are young, why do we vaccinate dogs yearly or even three-yearly?

Just asking...

[buggerme]

Just putting a question out there...

But if we don't vaccinate ourselves more than once when we are young, why do we vaccinate dogs yearly or even three-yearly?

Just asking...

Well that depends on the reason your vacinating. Take tetnus for example, current human modle for that is once every 10 yrs (though some articles suggest it may be good for 20 yrs. Hep A & B - a course of 3 shots, but often a booster is needed, esp if your at a higher exposure risk.

Even babies for most of the bugs go through a course ie Measles, Mumps an Rubella, so its often more than "just once"

For me, its all about risk reduction. There is a herd immunity arguement - but its a risky one: as there is no way you can know who has been vaccinated or not..

As for dogs, well - I guess the same principle remains - Im not a vet. Certainly I dont see any reason why a virus wouldnt mutate as the do with people..

Just my thoughts mind you

[rubiton]

And dont forget that those in certain jobs or going to certain countries also have further vaccinations to just what they had as kids.

But think some just go 'oh well I aint vaccinating anymore' without some guidance from their vet (such as making sure they get the 3 year product not the 12 month one then ignore remindars for 3 years thinking the dog is covered) or ensure that they do regular (yearly) titre testing in lieu of vaccinating. That is dangerous as you just dont know if your dog is one that doesnt hold the immunity.

Parvo is quite a regular epidemic around Adelaide as every year there are a few warnings of make sure your dog is protected.

[all that glitters]

When you say the "3 year protocol" does that mean the 3-year booster thats fairly new? I just got Shylas first annual done and don't want to vaccinate at all for 3 years. Does that mean I titre test yearly up til the 3rd year to make sure her immunity is still adequate?

[Red Fox]

When/if you ever go to put your dog in a boarding kennel, or enroll in obedience/juvenile classes, do they not require that the dog be fully vaccinated (presumably on a 12 monthly basis?)? Not that I am in a hurry to use those facilities, but you just never know....

Our local council also requires we provide up to date vaccination records for the dog, or they charge us a higher rate for council registration (which occurs every 12 months, I couldn't believe it!!!! Where I used to live it was once every three years).

As such, I've always been led to believe there is virtually no choice but to vaccinate the pooch.

...or you could just pay more

Every vet will tell you different, as will breeders and owners.

I've had one vet tell me that vaccinations are important in the early years and later years of a dogs life and that the middle ones can be missed.

Another tell me that I must vaccinate yearly with a C5

Another tell me that it's up to me, and give the options of titer test, C3 or parvac, yearly or triennually (the vet we stuck with)

Another (who was from the UK) tell me that dogs should only be vaccinated every 3 years with a C3 and that we over-vaccinate in Australia...

Hmmm... so who's right?

The AVA is now recommending 3 yearly vaccinations http://ava.informz.net/ava/data/images/doc...inal-june09.pdf

Yet most vets are still telling us that we MUST vaccinate yearly

I stopped vaccinating my now 7 year old cat 2 years ago. Up until then he had been given a yearly vaccination; he limped badly, couldn't jump (he has arthritis and we were then in the process of discussing FHR surgery for him- which he didn't have), his coat was terrible and he was develloping constant abcesses and infections.

He is now has a healthy full coat, hasn't limped for well over a year, no illness or infections in that time either... I won't be vaccinating him again.

[buggerme]

When/if you ever go to put your dog in a boarding kennel, or enroll in obedience/juvenile classes, do they not require that the dog be fully vaccinated (presumably on a 12 monthly basis?)? Not that I am in a hurry to use those facilities, but you just never know....

Our local council also requires we provide up to date vaccination records for the dog, or they charge us a higher rate for council registration (which occurs every 12 months, I couldn't believe it!!!! Where I used to live it was once every three years).

As such, I've always been led to believe there is virtually no choice but to vaccinate the pooch.

...or you could just pay more

Every vet will tell you different, as will breeders and owners.

I've had one vet tell me that vaccinations are important in the early years and later years of a dogs life and that the middle ones can be missed.

Another tell me that I must vaccinate yearly with a C5

Another tell me that it's up to me, and give the options of titer test, C3 or parvac, yearly or triennually (the vet we stuck with)

Another (who was from the UK) tell me that dogs should only be vaccinated every 3 years with a C3 and that we over-vaccinate in Australia...

Hmmm... so who's right?

The AVA is now recommending 3 yearly vaccinations http://ava.informz.net/ava/data/images/doc...inal-june09.pdf

Yet most vets are still telling us that we MUST vaccinate yearly

I stopped vaccinating my now 7 year old cat 2 years ago. Up until then he had been given a yearly vaccination; he limped badly, couldn't jump (he has arthritis and we were then in the process of discussing FHR surgery for him- which he didn't have), his coat was terrible and he was develloping constant abcesses and infections.

He is now has a healthy full coat, hasn't limped for well over a year, no illness or infections in that time either... I won't be vaccinating him again.

[buggerme]

When/if you ever go to put your dog in a boarding kennel, or enroll in obedience/juvenile classes, do they not require that the dog be fully vaccinated (presumably on a 12 monthly basis?)? Not that I am in a hurry to use those facilities, but you just never know....

Our local council also requires we provide up to date vaccination records for the dog, or they charge us a higher rate for council registration (which occurs every 12 months, I couldn't believe it!!!! Where I used to live it was once every three years).

As such, I've always been led to believe there is virtually no choice but to vaccinate the pooch.

...or you could just pay more

Every vet will tell you different, as will breeders and owners.

I've had one vet tell me that vaccinations are important in the early years and later years of a dogs life and that the middle ones can be missed.

Another tell me that I must vaccinate yearly with a C5

Another tell me that it's up to me, and give the options of titer test, C3 or parvac, yearly or triennually (the vet we stuck with)

Another (who was from the UK) tell me that dogs should only be vaccinated every 3 years with a C3 and that we over-vaccinate in Australia...

Hmmm... so who's right?

The AVA is now recommending 3 yearly vaccinations http://ava.informz.net/ava/data/images/doc...inal-june09.pdf

Yet most vets are still telling us that we MUST vaccinate yearly

I stopped vaccinating my now 7 year old cat 2 years ago. Up until then he had been given a yearly vaccination; he limped badly, couldn't jump (he has arthritis and we were then in the process of discussing FHR surgery for him- which he didn't have), his coat was terrible and he was develloping constant abcesses and infections.

He is now has a healthy full coat, hasn't limped for well over a year, no illness or infections in that time either... I won't be vaccinating him again.

There-in is the problem we are all struggling with I think - so much variation in advice, it is now almost impossible to work out who is right and who is wrong: prob because they dnt know themselves. I wish there was some form of accountability we could apply, or at least a way we can "confidently" know we are using the lastest evidence based research with what we do instead of hoping that it is accurate. I dont think there is one person that given a ability to cover the cost wouldnt do the absolute best they could. Saying that though - look at the parvo outbreak at the moment in Perth and Sydney. It would be intresting to see if that was caused from

1. A failure of the majority to vaccinte against it - is it a herd immunity concept issue

2. Some mutation in the bug that has made the current vaccination non effective and a waste of our time and money

3. If the ones that were vaccinated - was it with a yearly or 3 yearly schedule.

4. Are the vaccinations available - just rubbish quality

There must be a way that a scientist / animal expert can work out the cause with some degree of accuracy - if we can do it with people, surely the same can apply.

Im not suggesting that we shouldnt vaccinate, or that we should - but m 10 cents worth is that surely a attempt to prevent is better than nothing. I just wish like you all it was clearer what the best advice (unbiased) was.

[rubiton]

When you say the "3 year protocol" does that mean the 3-year booster thats fairly new? I just got Shylas first annual done and don't want to vaccinate at all for 3 years. Does that mean I titre test yearly up til the 3rd year to make sure her immunity is still adequate?

The 3yr vaccination seems to be a particular product - its not the usual one and then not bother (and thats the dangerous thinking that many read it as). Therefore if you want the 3yr one you have to ask your vet before you get the vacinnations done.

[Crisovar]

The 3yr protocol as advised by the AVA is that regular yearly vaccine will be sufficient for 3 yrs.

Unfortunately the majority of vaccine manufacturers refuse to play the game with this and insist that the vaccine must be given yearly. So if a vet signs off on a yearly one for 3yrs it is deemed off lable

One manufacturer however has produced a registered 3yr vaccine.

[gsdog2]

You might like to read this thread, I found it very interesting:-

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...197004&st=0

I'll be titre testing next time.

Edited July 10, 2010 by gsdog2

[Red Fox]

There-in is the problem we are all struggling with I think - so much variation in advice, it is now almost impossible to work out who is right and who is wrong: prob because they dnt know themselves. I wish there was some form of accountability we could apply, or at least a way we can "confidently" know we are using the lastest evidence based research with what we do instead of hoping that it is accurate. I dont think there is one person that given a ability to cover the cost wouldnt do the absolute best they could. Saying that though - look at the parvo outbreak at the moment in Perth and Sydney. It would be intresting to see if that was caused from

1. A failure of the majority to vaccinte against it - is it a herd immunity concept issue

2. Some mutation in the bug that has made the current vaccination non effective and a waste of our time and money

3. If the ones that were vaccinated - was it with a yearly or 3 yearly schedule.

4. Are the vaccinations available - just rubbish quality

There must be a way that a scientist / animal expert can work out the cause with some degree of accuracy - if we can do it with people, surely the same can apply.

Im not suggesting that we shouldnt vaccinate, or that we should - but m 10 cents worth is that surely a attempt to prevent is better than nothing. I just wish like you all it was clearer what the best advice (unbiased) was.

Just because an animal is vaccinated it does not always mean that the animal is necessarily immune. Vaccinations may lower the risk significantly but it does not always guarantee protection, a vaccinanted dog can still catch Parvo, an unvaccinated puppy can easily catch it too. Just like immunised humans can still catch diseases - uncommon, but it still happens.

If there was an outbreak in my area I would certainly be taking my dog in for titre testing and re-vaccinating if his levels were low. If not, then what's the point? If a dog is immune he is immune. Pumping him with a vaccine when he doesn't need it is only going to weaken his immune system, how can that be a good thing?

The US has been vaccinating dogs triennually for years with the standard vaccine. As have other countries. Australia is only now catching up.

As Crisovar said, the manufacturers are labelling their vaccines as yearly, regardless of what the AVA recommends and the vets are either stuck in their ways or refusing to sign off for any longer than the label states.

[buggerme]

There-in is the problem we are all struggling with I think - so much variation in advice, it is now almost impossible to work out who is right and who is wrong: prob because they dnt know themselves. I wish there was some form of accountability we could apply, or at least a way we can "confidently" know we are using the lastest evidence based research with what we do instead of hoping that it is accurate. I dont think there is one person that given a ability to cover the cost wouldnt do the absolute best they could. Saying that though - look at the parvo outbreak at the moment in Perth and Sydney. It would be intresting to see if that was caused from

1. A failure of the majority to vaccinte against it - is it a herd immunity concept issue

2. Some mutation in the bug that has made the current vaccination non effective and a waste of our time and money

3. If the ones that were vaccinated - was it with a yearly or 3 yearly schedule.

4. Are the vaccinations available - just rubbish quality

There must be a way that a scientist / animal expert can work out the cause with some degree of accuracy - if we can do it with people, surely the same can apply.

Im not suggesting that we shouldnt vaccinate, or that we should - but m 10 cents worth is that surely a attempt to prevent is better than nothing. I just wish like you all it was clearer what the best advice (unbiased) was.

Just because an animal is vaccinated it does not always mean that the animal is necessarily immune. Vaccinations may lower the risk significantly but it does not always guarantee protection, a vaccinanted dog can still catch Parvo, an unvaccinated puppy can easily catch it too. Just like immunised humans can still catch diseases - uncommon, but it still happens.

If there was an outbreak in my area I would certainly be taking my dog in for titre testing and re-vaccinating if his levels were low. If not, then what's the point? If a dog is immune he is immune. Pumping him with a vaccine when he doesn't need it is only going to weaken his immune system, how can that be a good thing?

The US has been vaccinating dogs triennually for years with the standard vaccine. As have other countries. Australia is only now catching up.

As Crisovar said, the manufacturers are labelling their vaccines as yearly, regardless of what the AVA recommends and the vets are either stuck in their ways or refusing to sign off for any longer than the label states.

You make excellent point(s) ! ... cant help but agree with you: sounds like the wisest path to take. Thanks.

[Red Fox]

Do keep in mind though, I'm not a vet, nor do I have a huge amount of knowledge on vaccinations - I would never want to tell another owner what they should or shouldn't do. The above is just my oppinion from the research that I have done and what I believe to be the best for my dog.

If you are interested in reading more about vaccinations then have a look at these books: "Shock to the System" or "Vaccine guide for Dogs and Cats" also do a search on Jean Dodds

[buggerme]

Do keep in mind though, I'm not a vet, nor do I have a huge amount of knowledge on vaccinations - I would never want to tell another owner what they should or shouldn't do. The above is just my oppinion from the research that I have done and what I believe to be the best for my dog.

If you are interested in reading more about vaccinations then have a look at these books: "Shock to the System" or "Vaccine guide for Dogs and Cats" also do a search on Jean Dodds

Oh but of course... only a fool rushes in without first satisfing something for themself. Thats why such discussion forums are so valuable to a novice like mwah !