Have The Means To Make A Doco On Puppy Farms

[melzawelza]

You're right - there are pedigree breeders that are essentially puppy farmers too, so I want to focus on what needs to be looked for in a breeder if you want a sound, healthy, happy puppy.

I meant to mention earlier too - I want to focus on RESCUE as opposed to adopting straight from the pound/rspca. Most people I come across understand they can get a dog straight from the pound but have no idea what rescue or foster carers are. Most of these people don't want a rescue because they understandably worry about the temperament of the dog , and adopting straight from the pound this is a legitimate concern.

I want to show what rescue is, show the foster carers that have the dogs in their homes for a few months plus in order to determine the dogs good points and points that need work on - and match someone up suitably. I think if more people knew they could get a rescue dog from a home environment with a good idea of the dogs temperament they would be much more inclined to go down that route. It's also of course a way to highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding.

Great, looks like you have your storyline all set, now you just need to conjure the screenplay.

I can't quite tell if you are being rude and sarcastic or not, but if so then maybe you'd like to be a bit more civil.

I very much value the points you are making and am considering them thoroughly, there is no need to be rude.

Without going into the inverse relationship between civility and rudeness -

If you cant quite tell if I'm being rude and sarcastic, then Im probably not.

If that was not your intention then I apologise. Could you then explain the intent behind this post? Like I said before, I have found your posts quite valuable, and if this one did have a useful purpose, rather than the way that I took it, i'd like to understand it.

If i was already set on exactly what I wanted to do, why would I be posting here asking for suggestions for ways to go about things and ideas?

Ways to go about things and ideas Vs what it actually is that you want to portray, are quite different.

Is this what you want to do:

highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding

That is a small part of the overall picture that I was thinking may be valuable to show. Again, if anyone gave be a reason why this would not be a good idea then I would consider it and change my view if I agreed.

Please remember that at the moment I am just bouncing around ideas. My friend will not be able to start on this for quite some time due to her current project, and we only discussed the prospect of this documentary two days ago. All of the things I am mentioning are things that I have thought may add value to the documentary, and I am posting them here to see others opinions of whether those ideas are worthwhile or not. I have not figured out or set in stone any sort of structure or 'narrative' (for want of a better word), and will not do that until I have thought long and hard about, like you said, what it is I want to portray and the way to go about it.

I DO want to create a factual documentary that does not rely on emotions or manipulation to get the point across. I want people to give me constructive criticism on ideas and tell me exactly why they may or may not be a good idea.

Edited August 1, 2010 by melzawelza

[Shmurps]

Been thinking and maybe a 3 part doco.

Responsible pet ownership, How to source a pup- Inc puppy farms,pet shops and ethical breeders, Pound, shelter, rescue.

Why not add Part 4? How NOT to DUMP a dog at the pound when you are sick of it? That it is a DOG for LIFE.

I would have thought that would come under responsible pet ownership.

[Souff]

Souff, I have found both yours and lilli's posts a great help in this thread. You both have made me think about the sorts of ideas I was having and both gave great constrctive criticism on previous ideas from me and the other posters. I would value you both continuing to post.

I don't,however, find lilli's last post about writing a screenplay to be constructive at all. It came across as very sarcastic, quite rude and also demeaning. I definitely want to hear why certain ideas may not work, but I don't think it's necessary to ridicule. I hope lilli keeps posting but follows her original interesting, constructive tone, not the tone of her last post.

Gosh, you are a surprise. Some people have regretted inviting Souff to come back and post some more ..... :D

Dont worry about Lilli, she had probably just finished cleaning out a messy puppy area ..... Lordie do you know just how much poopy MESS that pups can make? Having poopy puppies around sometimes makes dog breeders get a bit toey after a few weeks of it, good thing we dont breed every season. And she has those very LARGE poopies to clean up after. Urrrrrrgggghhhh, she is much braver than Souff. Did you know that her kids ride a dog to school and all the traffic in the alps gives way to them (because if they didnt they would be over the side and end up in the icy river below). She is a brave girl is Lilli with all those big dogs. Dot worry about her .... she will be all good again soon .... she might need a glass of something first but she'll be right.

Hooroo!

Souff

[melzawelza]

You have to decide whether you want to jump on the bandwagon and join the ALV and RSPCA touting puppy farms as the reason why so many dogs end up at the pounds

or

whether you want to determine your own information and opinion on the matter.

Everyone wants a documentary to push their interest barrow -

what question is your 'documentary' trying to answer?

Is it at investigative doco or an infomercial?

The moment you start considering what groups you want to promote and what groups you dont, you're already tainting the results for your own bias.

And can I just say that posts like this are fantastic, Lilli. Thank you. You really have me thinking about what exactly it is that I want out of this documentary.

Good ideas, but you will probably only get half the story because many people don't tell the whole truth, and others don't like to admit failure with a dog they thought they could "fix".

If the DUMPERS were interviewed by a skilled interviewer you would have a better chance of getting close to the truth.

"Fido is not cute any more" wont be the reason for surrender. It will be because he is supposed to be vicious, a biter, or continually breaks down fences - all very compelling reasons on paper. In reality the truth is more likely to be because the neighbours are sick to death of putting notes in the letterbox because they are sick to death of hearing a young juvenile dog barking and whining when he is alone in the backyard hour after hour, day after day, because the kids are at school and the adults are at work. He is a pack animal and doesnt understand that it is not alright to do this when the rest of the pack are no longer around. He probably pulled the washing off the line and bailed up the neighbour's cat and dug up the flower bed - any of these things can start his trip to the pound and probably the staff there could be told that he is an escape artist, or that they are moving into a unit. Staff are unlikely to be told that he is just bored and lonely. Occasionally people are truthful and that is refreshing. But admitting that buying a dog was not a good idea for them at that time of their lives seems to be a hard thing for many people to confess to.

It is the story of lack of responsibility on the part of owners that needs to be drawn out.

More often than not, this is the real reason that dogs end up in pounds.

There is far less impulse buying now than what there was say 10 years ago (yes, you are talking to an old hand) yet there is still a high rate of dumpage.

So perhaps it is time to shine the light on other areas.

Looking at that part BETWEEN PURCHASE AND EARLY DEATH will give you a much more realistic take on the problem.

As the previous poster said, talk to animal trainers and animal behaviourists.

They get to see some of the dogs that are on Pound Road and with good owners these dogs can be taken off that road.

But if the owners dont seek help for the problems, and many don't, then the dog is on the fast track to Pound Road.

We have heard all about the puppy mill sagas .... and some people tend to cry "puppy farm" when it is not so the more realistic amongst us are no longer responding. Many others are feeling that way too so make sure you do your market research before marketing. Many members of the public will see nothing wrong with kennels where there are lots of dogs, particularly if the dogs are healthy and clean and bouncing around or looking cute. Vets can own puppy farms so the idea that all puppy farms are full of unhealthy dogs in squalid conditions could be a long way from the truth.

How many million dog owners do we have in Australia?

And there are an awful lot of REPEAT DUMPERS amongst them.

And where do they bring their unwanted dog to? The vet or the pound. Think about it.

Souff

edited cos some things were repeated ... grrrr

This is also a fantastic post, thankyou Souff.

Yourself in this thread and someone else made the point of 'clean' puppy farms that health test etc but kennel the dogs and pups - that was one thing I was thinking the behaviourist could discuss in the interview. The fact that raising puppies the same way we raise agricultural animals does not fly, no matter how clean, because we are expecting these puppies to grow up to live in a human world. All the cleanliness in the world doesn't change the fact that these puppies are undersocialised with humans, other dogs and 'life' in general. The point of critical socialisation periods could be made and a discussion from the behaviouralist of the common issues then seen as a result of that start to life.

[bertie]

All the cleanliness in the world doesn't change the fact that these puppies are undersocialised with humans, other dogs and 'life' in general. The point of critical socialisation periods could be made and a discussion from the behaviouralist of the common issues then seen as a result of that start to life.

From my point of view in the peanut gallery, this is a terribly important thing that I never, ever had any inkling about. (Until I came here )

I think this would be an enormously important point to get across in words of 3 syllables or less, if possible

[Souff]

Been thinking and maybe a 3 part doco.

Responsible pet ownership, How to source a pup- Inc puppy farms,pet shops and ethical breeders, Pound, shelter, rescue.

Why not add Part 4? How NOT to DUMP a dog at the pound when you are sick of it? That it is a DOG for LIFE.

I would have thought that would come under responsible pet ownership.

Nope.

You are way off the mark.

Dumping of dogs at pounds is about getting OUT of being a responsible owner.

Going to the pound to get rid of the dog is the time when the "ownership" bit finishes and finally being rid of the problem dog is on the horizon;

those who have this in mind see the dumping of the dog at the pound as another process altogether.

The problem dog is no longer theirs and the problem dog becomes somebody else's problem. They are finished with playing the responsible owner.

In their eyes the pound is there specifically to take unwanted dogs to - why else would it be there?

It is a place to solve problems.

They walk in with the problem, and walk out without the problem.

Society has put this convenient place there for them, and they don't have to give the dog the needle and see it die. They dont have to bury the dog either.

They are not asked to stay and watch.

They dont have to bury the dead dog either.

Perhaps if they were told that they had to stay and watch their dog die, they may think twice about getting another dog.

Harsh?

You bet.

But it is only by toughening up as a society that we can get the message across that is not OK to get rid of a dog that you made a commitment to keeping.

Puppy farm hysteria is a smokescreen that hides the real reasons why so many dogs are dumped and PTS.

Anyone who is serious about the problem and not looking for donations for their animal libber cause can see that.

Souff

[BJean]

Is this what you want to do:

highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding

That is a small part of the overall picture that I was thinking may be valuable to show. Again, if anyone gave be a reason why this would not be a good idea then I would consider it and change my view if I agreed.

Okay I'll start at the beginning - what is the overall picture you want to show and why?

What problem do you want your documentary to highlight?

Please remember that at the moment I am just bouncing around ideas. My friend will not be able to start on this for quite some time due to her current project, and we only discussed the prospect of this documentary two days ago. All of the things I am mentioning are things that I have thought may add value to the documentary, and I am posting them here to see others opinions of whether those ideas are worthwhile or not. I have not figured out or set in stone any sort of structure or 'narrative' (for want of a better word), and will not do that until I have thought long and hard about, like you said, what it is I want to portray and the way to go about it.

I DO want to create a factual documentary that does not rely on emotions or manipulation to get the point across. I want people to give me constructive criticism on ideas and tell me exactly why they may or may not be a good idea.

Yes but a documentary about what?

Is your documentary about the conditions at some puppy farms

or about the numbers of dogs unwanted that get pts?

I read lots of broad terms getting bandied about - and yes I know you are just brainstorming atm -

but do you not see the assumption even in this seemingly innocuous statement:

highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding

Do Rescue and the RSPCA really 'pick up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding?

Are you sure about the cause and effect?

Do you think it would be interesting, to ignore the pamphlets and slogans

and actually source for yourself the reasons why puppies/dogs go from wanted to unwanted.

If puppy farms (however you want to define them) disappeared tomorrow, do you think unwanted dogs / puppies would decrease?

If not, then is your documentary about the conditions dogs are kept in (the issue with puppy farms)

or the numbers of dogs/pups that are no longer wanted and sent to pounds / pts etc

The two are not the same, nor can it be said that only puppy farm dogs end up in pounds or pts or have health problems.

why do people give up their dogs?

lack of care. too hard. too much money. too much legislation.

???

Who said puppy farm pups have their fate predetermined. How many dogs end up in pounds because its too much for the owner to look after, too much for the rescue to look after, too much for the rspca to look after (well RSPCA dogs dont end up in other pound their dogs end up in their dumpster)

All the while, you will get the PC ad nauseum of how to look for a 'good' breeder how to source a good puppy from a wholesome establishment

blah blah blah

What about the human component?

Edited August 1, 2010 by lilli

[BJean]

Dont worry about Lilli, she had probably just finished cleaning out a messy puppy area ..... Lordie do you know just how much poopy MESS that pups can make? Having poopy puppies around sometimes makes dog breeders get a bit toey after a few weeks of it, good thing we dont breed every season. And she has those very LARGE poopies to clean up after. Urrrrrrgggghhhh, she is much braver than Souff. Did you know that her kids ride a dog to school and all the traffic in the alps gives way to them (because if they didnt they would be over the side and end up in the icy river below). She is a brave girl is Lilli with all those big dogs. Dont worry about her .... she will be all good again soon .... she might need a glass of something first but she'll be right.

its almost 7pm!

The Alps bottlo closes soon!

got to rush

and yes those poops are humungous

too big and too controversial to show on tv ...

night Souff

[Shmurps]

Been thinking and maybe a 3 part doco.

Responsible pet ownership, How to source a pup- Inc puppy farms,pet shops and ethical breeders, Pound, shelter, rescue.

Why not add Part 4? How NOT to DUMP a dog at the pound when you are sick of it? That it is a DOG for LIFE.

I would have thought that would come under responsible pet ownership.

Nope.

You are way off the mark.

Dumping of dogs at pounds is about getting OUT of being a responsible owner.

Going to the pound to get rid of the dog is the time when the "ownership" bit finishes and finally being rid of the problem dog is on the horizon;

those who have this in mind see the dumping of the dog at the pound as another process altogether.

The problem dog is no longer theirs and the problem dog becomes somebody else's problem. They are finished with playing the responsible owner.

In their eyes the pound is there specifically to take unwanted dogs to - why else would it be there?

It is a place to solve problems.

They walk in with the problem, and walk out without the problem.

Society has put this convenient place there for them, and they don't have to give the dog the needle and see it die. They dont have to bury the dog either.

They are not asked to stay and watch.

They dont have to bury the dead dog either.

Perhaps if they were told that they had to stay and watch their dog die, they may think twice about getting another dog.

Harsh?

You bet.

But it is only by toughening up as a society that we can get the message across that is not OK to get rid of a dog that you made a commitment to keeping.

Puppy farm hysteria is a smokescreen that hides the real reasons why so many dogs are dumped and PTS.

Anyone who is serious about the problem and not looking for donations for their animal libber cause can see that.

Souff

Well, under the pound, shelter system.

These are just ideas. It's good to get people discussing all points.

[melzawelza]

Is this what you want to do:

highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding

That is a small part of the overall picture that I was thinking may be valuable to show. Again, if anyone gave be a reason why this would not be a good idea then I would consider it and change my view if I agreed.

Okay I'll start at the beginning - what is the overall picture you want to show and why?

What problem do you want your documentary to highlight?

Please remember that at the moment I am just bouncing around ideas. My friend will not be able to start on this for quite some time due to her current project, and we only discussed the prospect of this documentary two days ago. All of the things I am mentioning are things that I have thought may add value to the documentary, and I am posting them here to see others opinions of whether those ideas are worthwhile or not. I have not figured out or set in stone any sort of structure or 'narrative' (for want of a better word), and will not do that until I have thought long and hard about, like you said, what it is I want to portray and the way to go about it.

I DO want to create a factual documentary that does not rely on emotions or manipulation to get the point across. I want people to give me constructive criticism on ideas and tell me exactly why they may or may not be a good idea.

Yes but a documentary about what?

Is your documentary about the conditions at some puppy farms

or about the numbers of dogs unwanted that get pts?

I read lots of broad terms getting bandied about - and yes I know you are just brainstorming atm -

but do you not see the assumption even in this seemingly innocuous statement:

highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding

Do Rescue and the RSPCA really 'pick up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding?

Are you sure about the cause and effect?

Do you think it would be interesting, to ignore the pamphlets and slogans

and actually source for yourself the reasons why puppies/dogs go from wanted to unwanted.

If puppy farms (however you want to define them) disappeared tomorrow, do you think unwanted dogs / puppies would decrease?

If not, then is your documentary about the conditions dogs are kept in (the issue with puppy farms)

or the numbers of dogs/pups that are no longer wanted and sent to pounds / pts etc

The two are not the same, nor can it be said that only puppy farm dogs end up in pounds or pts or have health problems.

why do people give up their dogs?

lack of care. too hard. too much money. too much legislation.

???

Who said puppy farm pups have their fate predetermined. How many dogs end up in pounds because its too much for the owner to look after, too much for the rescue to look after, too much for the rspca to look after (well RSPCA dogs dont end up in other pound their dogs end up in their dumpster)

All the while, you will get the PC ad nauseum of how to look for a 'good' breeder how to source a good puppy from a wholesome establishment

blah blah blah

What about the human component?

This is an amazing post! Thankyou so much, Lilli!

Your post has made me re-think all my original ideas, and I think I want to take a NEW route, the route you have mentioned:

"the reasons why puppies/dogs go from wanted to unwanted."

That sums up what we've all really been discussing, but i didn't really have a clear direction in my head.

I think that would be a fascinating, educational and heartbreaking documentary all in one. The idea has direction and I think the investigating would be an eye opener not just for joe public but even for myself. Sure part of the doco would address puppy farms, but there is so much MORE to be addressed when it comes to that simple question.

Thank you thank you thank you!!