Yearly Vaccination

[malsrock]

Hi Guy's,

Just looking for an opinion what people would do in this case:

A dog 3 1/2 years old, had puppy vaccinations, a C5 booster 12 months later, another C5 booster 12 months after that and is due now for another under the 12 month regime. Would you re-vaccinate again, titre test, or would the dog be considered to have immunity for another year or so???.

The vet doesn't recognise anything other than yearly boosters as extended regimes are off label apparantly???

Any thoughts appreciated please

Fiona

[karly101]

I'd probably titre test and decide ....if you wish too (and if your dog goes to kennels/obediance clubs) the kennel cough needs to be done yearly.

And yes using an annually booster every 3 years is off label ... which is fine if you are aware of it - ie. just say the dog did come down with parvo then you wouldn't be able to have much recourse with the manufacturer as you are using the vaccine 'offlabel' but yes there's plenty of evidence the vaccine lasts much longer than a year. There are also the labelled 3 yearly vaccines (which are apparently not the same in component than the annual labelled ones).

It's confusing.. I hope that made it less confusing

[stormie]

We looked right into the labeled 3 yearly vacc and decided to go ahead and get it. Yes, there are more virus particles but we were assured that in the scheme of virus particles, the difference isn't actually as significant as it sounds. The labeled 3 yearly also covers for a newer strain of parvo - another reason we erred towards it.

This way, we're covered by the company in the event something goes wrong and also its much more likely to be accepted by boarding kennels and training clubs.

[rubiton]

Either titre test or vaccinate - don't just assume and perhaps leave your dog at risk.

[lanabanana]

Depends on your circumstance I guess.

Before we moved to Oz, our dogs got some or all puppy shots and that was it.

I now vaccinate yearly since w ehave moved here. Purely because, we do not know anyone here so if we go away the dogs need to be kenneled and so far I have been unable to find a kennel who is ok with less than that.

Mind you, I havent looked too hard just yet but will be looking hard now as we are planning to go away in Jan and I want to have my dogs booked in to a kennel by end of october

[malsrock]

We looked right into the labeled 3 yearly vacc and decided to go ahead and get it. Yes, there are more virus particles but we were assured that in the scheme of virus particles, the difference isn't actually as significant as it sounds. The labeled 3 yearly also covers for a newer strain of parvo - another reason we erred towards it.

This way, we're covered by the company in the event something goes wrong and also its much more likely to be accepted by boarding kennels and training clubs.

Hi Stormie,

Are they referring to the labelled 3 year vacc specifically when speaking of vaccinating at 3 year intervals, or is it generally using a yearly vacc every 3 years off label being what some are speaking about in the scheme of preventing the ill effects of over-vaccination???

Fiona

Edited September 2, 2010 by malsrock

[Staranais]

The vet doesn't recognise anything other than yearly boosters as extended regimes are off label apparantly???

Any thoughts appreciated please

Fiona

It's pretty widely accepted by anyone up to date with the literature that the C3 normally lasts at least 3 years, probably far more. But the issues are that:

a) it's off label use of most vaccines, meaning that if your dog happens to get parvo more than a year after the annual vaccine was last given (very unlikely but always possible - no vaccine works 100%), the manufacturers won't take any responsibility, & your vet might get in big poo if you decide to make a fuss about it

b) some practices are slow to change, I know practices where all the young vets want to do C3 every 3 years, but the older vets (who own the practice) are set in their ways & unfortunately they decide the practice policy.

Take your vet a copy of the 2010 WSAVA vaccination recommendations, available on this page, & ask him to share it around the practice:

http://www.wsava.org/VGG1.htm

The WSAVA would say your dog doesn't need another C3 for 3 years. Any other vaccines (lepto, bordetella, etc) still need to be done more frequently though.

[WreckitWhippet]

Vets and those that manufacture the vaccines accept no responsibility if your dog contracts parvo, even if they have been vaccinated according to the manufacturers schedule.

[Staranais]

Vets can be called before the vet council to answer charges of professional misconduct if the owner chooses complains to the vet council in that type of situation, though.

I know vets that have appeared before the vet council and apparently it's a bloody stressful nasty experience, not something anyone would wish to go through voluntarily.

[Erny]

Are they referring to the labelled 3 year vacc specifically when speaking of vaccinating at 3 year intervals, or is it generally using a yearly vacc every 3 years off label being what some are speaking about in the scheme of preventing the ill effects of over-vaccination???

I find this a constant source of confusion these days, when conversing about it. Wish they'd put a proper name to the vaccine that has especially been manufactured as a 3-yearly vaccine. Or have they, and I just don't know of it?

In the meantime, maybe we could all refer to it as the REAL 3-yearly vaccine, or something???

As for what I'd do in the circumstance you suggest, Malsrock.

I think I'd go for a titre test. If the titre shows antibodies then I'd have some peace of mind that there is cover there and I would not re-vaccinate. If it didn't, then I'd most likely give consideration to the fact that the 'cover' is in cell memory (I'm sure I'm wording all of this wrong). Then I'd check around the area I was in and/or going to as far as the 3 core diseases are concerned. And THEN I think I'd make my decision as to whether to re-vaccinate. I'd be doing all that I could to satisfy my mind that I did NOT need to re-vaccinate. The alternative is that you could give the booster and titre 2 weeks later to ensure that you have sero-conversion. Then not re-vaccinate the dog after that. LOL ...... OR you could titre and if it didn't show anything, re-vaccinate, titre after 2 weeks to ensure sero-conversion and then not re-vaccinate after that.

That's just me and my thought pattern.

ETA: Re-reading, I think I've made your choices more confusing than ever!!

Edited September 2, 2010 by Erny

[Staranais]

In the meantime, maybe we could all refer to it as the REAL 3-yearly vaccine, or something???

How about the registered 3 year vaccine?

[Crisovar]

NOBIVAC is the only (afaik) registered 3yr vaccine, so it has a name.

So if your vet uses Nobivac they are using the 3yr VACCINE if they are not, but are recommending 3yrly vaccination, they are following the 3yr PROTOCOL.

[Everythings Shiny]

.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Everythings Shiny

[WreckitWhippet]

My practice doesn't do the 3 yearly vacc. We looked into it and decided that many clients would not bring their pets in for routine health checks otherwise.

My dogs are vaccinated yearly, almost to the day as we have an exceptionally high parvo rate during summer.

My bosses have tested most of the other nurses at works dogs for anti body levels. All of them came back higher than non-nurse owned dogs. I think it's because we have so much contact with disease and infection in our line of work.

Glad I don't bring my dogs to your clinic, making decisions like that for your clients, rather than allowing them to make informed choices.

[Leema]

Vets and those that manufacture the vaccines accept no responsibility if your dog contracts parvo, even if they have been vaccinated according to the manufacturers schedule.

+1

I would not vaccinate the dog in question again, unless you wanted to be involved in clubs etc in some way that requires a vaccination certificate.

If I did vaccinate the dog again, it would be with a on-label 3 year vaccine - e.g. Duramine.

[Tilly]

Choice magazine has the yearly vaccinations topic in their September 2010 magazine ... I haven't read it yet but it asks "Should you vaccinate your best friend as often as the vet instructs?".

I think I will be getting my boys tested when it is time for their next vaccinations ... the youngest had his puppy shots and then another needle not so long ago but hopefully I will test both of them instead.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Tilly

[stormie]

My practice doesn't do the 3 yearly vacc. We looked into it and decided that many clients would not bring their pets in for routine health checks otherwise.

My dogs are vaccinated yearly, almost to the day as we have an exceptionally high parvo rate during summer.

My bosses have tested most of the other nurses at works dogs for anti body levels. All of them came back higher than non-nurse owned dogs. I think it's because we have so much contact with disease and infection in our line of work.

We started doing the 3 year protocol 12months ago with annual vaccines. We also have the Nobivac Triennial to keep boarding kennels and training clubs etc happy. We also titre test.

Since taking over the clinic 12months ago and changing the protocol, we have seen more people than the previous vet. We average a new client every day. People are recommending us all over the place. I believe it's because our vet is so open and honest with our clients and treat them as individuals and help the client decide for themselves.

Many of our clients go boarding so still need to come in for yearly Kennel Cough shots anyway.

The thing is with the vaccines, is if they have seroconverted, no amount of vaccines is going to increase their immunity. They either have the memory cells or they don't. If you titre test a dog that's lived inside all it's life, its levels will likely be low. But that doesn't mean it needs another vacc - it just means the body hasn't been challenged recently so there are no antibodies circulating.

I don't understand why, if you're dogs have been titre testing and their levels are high, why you'd still vacc every year?

My boy is 3yo and hasn't been vaccinated since he was 16wks old. My boss is more than happy to NOT vaccinate him, knowing the potential risks for him in terms of immune mediated diseases, because of his already crapola immune system (allergies).

[WreckitWhippet]

Stormie I applaud your practice and it's way of thinking, educating and doing what's best for the clients. I'd be using you guys too , if you were in the area.

[Erny]

My practice doesn't do the 3 yearly vacc. We looked into it and decided that many clients would not bring their pets in for routine health checks otherwise.

My dogs are vaccinated yearly, almost to the day as we have an exceptionally high parvo rate during summer.

My bosses have tested most of the other nurses at works dogs for anti body levels. All of them came back higher than non-nurse owned dogs. I think it's because we have so much contact with disease and infection in our line of work.

We started doing the 3 year protocol 12months ago with annual vaccines. We also have the Nobivac Triennial to keep boarding kennels and training clubs etc happy. We also titre test.

Since taking over the clinic 12months ago and changing the protocol, we have seen more people than the previous vet. We average a new client every day. People are recommending us all over the place. I believe it's because our vet is so open and honest with our clients and treat them as individuals and help the client decide for themselves.

Many of our clients go boarding so still need to come in for yearly Kennel Cough shots anyway.

The thing is with the vaccines, is if they have seroconverted, no amount of vaccines is going to increase their immunity. They either have the memory cells or they don't. If you titre test a dog that's lived inside all it's life, its levels will likely be low. But that doesn't mean it needs another vacc - it just means the body hasn't been challenged recently so there are no antibodies circulating.

I don't understand why, if you're dogs have been titre testing and their levels are high, why you'd still vacc every year?

My boy is 3yo and hasn't been vaccinated since he was 16wks old. My boss is more than happy to NOT vaccinate him, knowing the potential risks for him in terms of immune mediated diseases, because of his already crapola immune system (allergies).

I love you Stormie . You should come down here. I'm tired of being treated by many Vets as though I'm stupid, wouldn't have a clue that what they tell me isn't necessarily gospel and treated as though I'm stupid. And yes - it is about time Vets started EDUCATING instead of dictating. ETA: And did I say that I was tired of being treated by Vets as though I was stupid?

LOL

Edited September 3, 2010 by Erny

[stormie]

I dunno, I just think it's all about communication. The most common thing we hear from our clients is 'do whatever you think is necessary' and we love this. They have complete faith that he's not out to suck them for money and will do what is in the best interest of the animal and the client.

We have clients who still want annual vaccines because they're nervous and that's fine. We also have a few who don't vaccinate at all and that's fine too - we just remove any reminders from their file and just make them annual health checks.

We have the AVA printouts in our waiting room for people to read if they haven't heard about the changes before. We talk to them about boarding requirements, and if they have a regular place, will call up to ask what they're happy to accept. We've not run into any problems so far!