Leash Walking

[aussielover]

After recently receiving advice from Mindy's puuppy contact, I have started giving her "checks" on leash if she starts sniffing or gets otherwise distracted.

I feel bad saying this but its actually been much more effective than getting her to look at me or her focus on me because it means she can still look ahead at the distraction but not go mental about it. I have been trying to use mainly positive methods with her but this correction has seemed to be more effective in acheiving a calm focussed walk.

I'm not pulling her hard, just giving a quick tug on the leash (she has been remarkably recepetive to it so far) and only on a flat or martingale collar.

Has anyone had any bad experiences with using this method, or do you think its ok?

[Nekhbet]

It's perfectly fine. You're giving the dog a correction for the wrong behaviour. Dogs need to learn consequences, if it's been recommended and works use it. A guide dog needs to be focussed this will achieve it. Remember to praise for good behaviour.

[persephone]

Sounds fine to me. The correction should be just an instant's tightening/tug with good vocal praise immediately she responds

[melzawelza]

Gotta love the difference a few good corrections makes!

Nothing wrong with it whatsoever, especially if it's on a flat collar! At that level it's more to distract than it is an aversive anyway.

[malsrock]

After recently receiving advice from Mindy's puuppy contact, I have started giving her "checks" on leash if she starts sniffing or gets otherwise distracted.

I feel bad saying this but its actually been much more effective than getting her to look at me or her focus on me because it means she can still look ahead at the distraction but not go mental about it. I have been trying to use mainly positive methods with her but this correction has seemed to be more effective in acheiving a calm focussed walk.

I'm not pulling her hard, just giving a quick tug on the leash (she has been remarkably recepetive to it so far) and only on a flat or martingale collar.

Has anyone had any bad experiences with using this method, or do you think its ok?

Excellent, more should be incorporating it into their training rountines IMHO :D

[corvus]

I think you just have to be careful to be very consistent and make sure you are doing what you think you are doing. Are you punishing her or nagging her? If you're punishing her, are you punishing just the behaviour you want to suppress? I've had it go wrong because I didn't know exactly what I was doing and I wasn't just suppressing the behaviour I thought I was suppressing. I also managed to create an aversive association to walking on leash with me. I didn't really know what I'd done and so made no effort to fix it. It fixed itself in the end after I stopped correcting, but took years.

[aussielover]

I "check" her when she begins to sniff something. I verbally praise her when she does respond, and after a few steps of good walking i very occiasonally will give a food reward.

She is generally a good walker though and i don't really need to use corrections that often.

I can say "leave" if i see some food on the ground but sometimes she goes to sniff something invisible lol.

She is happy to go on the leash and will put her martingale collar on by herself (well she puts her head thru it anyway) because she knows it is walkie time. She has never tried to run away from me at the park when I recall her to put the leash back on.

Hopefully she will not develop a fear of the leash, I do give more rewards than corrections when on leash- for things like stopping at roads, indicating stairs, indicating a seat, ignoring distractions, leaving food etc. So I hope it is overall a positive experience for her, she seems to enjoy working/walking and is always fairly tired on return even though we don't actually go that far!

Thanks to everyone for their feedback

[Nekhbet]

Hopefully she will not develop a fear of the leash,

and why would this happen? Are you cornering the dog and beating the living daylights out of her with it?

[poodlefan]

Its fine providing you're not reefing her head off.

I think of it as the equivalent of a half halt on a horses reins.. its cue to focus on the job. I actually find rapidly wiggling the lead from side to side (Pat Parelli style) just as effective and I do this (making the clip rattle) if one of my dogs tightens the lead.

Edited September 20, 2010 by poodlefan

[bedazzledx2]

Are you planning on doing competition obedience or agility?

After recently receiving advice from Mindy's puuppy contact, I have started giving her "checks" on leash if she starts sniffing or gets otherwise distracted.

I feel bad saying this but its actually been much more effective than getting her to look at me or her focus on me because it means she can still look ahead at the distraction but not go mental about it. I have been trying to use mainly positive methods with her but this correction has seemed to be more effective in acheiving a calm focussed walk.

I'm not pulling her hard, just giving a quick tug on the leash (she has been remarkably recepetive to it so far) and only on a flat or martingale collar.

Has anyone had any bad experiences with using this method, or do you think its ok?

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

When I started training my dog, I had a slip collar and did check check check. But now I don't use the slip chain any more. I bribe my dog for attention with treats - but I'm not planning to do competition any time soon. At least I'd have to see how far I got just showing the treat at the start and the end for a run instead of between each exercise. We are working longer and longer between treats though which is good.

For walking the burbs - checking slip collar or otherwise had never worked. The front attach harness stopped the pulling - ie it unbalances the dog that pulls and puts rotational force on that makes the dog turn to face the handler instead of direction pulling... so no gain for dog, dog stops pulling - worked on my dog. For "checking" instead I stop and call her back to me. If I just stop, she just sits, and as soon as I walk to catch up to her, she walks too so she's no closer. But if I call her - she knows to come back. And I just repeat lots until she stops pulling and then loads of praise. Treats don't work when we're on the footpaths- she just isn't interested. Walk, dog pulls or reaches end of lead, stop, call, dog returns, start walking, dog works to end of lead, stop call, repeat...

[aussielover]

Are you planning on doing competition obedience or agility?

Not with mindy...

She is a guide dog puppy.

With my future pet dogs, yes.

[aussielover]

Its fine providing you're not reefing her head off.

I think of it as the equivalent of a half halt on a horses reins.. its cue to focus on the job. I actually find rapidly wiggling the lead from side to side (Pat Parelli style) just as effective and I do this (making the clip rattle) if one of my dogs tightens the lead.

haha i actually do perform it like a half halt (ie just a squeeze), i even hold the lead like reins

[bedazzledx2]

This is lumping big time

Are you planning on doing competition obedience or agility?

Not with mindy...

She is a guide dog puppy.

With my future pet dogs, yes.

[aussielover]

This is lumping big time

Are you planning on doing competition obedience or agility?

Not with mindy...

She is a guide dog puppy.

With my future pet dogs, yes.

what does that mean?

[koalathebear]

This is lumping big time

what does that mean?

I was also wondering ... it doesn't sound like a training term.

[Aidan]

"Lumping" is an animal training term, it describes the process of the trainer asking for more of a response than the animal understands it is supposed to offer. A very obvious example would be to ask a 3 minute sit-stay when the animal has only ever demonstrated a 10 second sit-stay.

"Splitting" refers to breaking a behaviour down into pieces so tiny that the dog is able to meet each criterion easily. So, if the dog can perform a 10 second sit-stay, you would then ask for a 12 second sit-stay, then a 15 second sit-stay etc You've broken down the 3 minute sit-stay into smaller pieces so that the dog can succeed and you have something to reinforce.

When I started free-shaping behaviours I had a terrible time learning how to split, because I was used to lumping and correcting. This is not a value judgement on lumping or correcting, but if you want the best results from +R training you must learn to split effectively. "Make haste slowly" is the mantra I was given, the fastest progress comes with a bit of patience.

[Nekhbet]

aussilover you are doing fine with your pup. A guide dog has to learn not to be distracted easily and dogs need to learn in a reasonable time frame and reliably not to just bound over to something because it's a higer value then the potential reward they might get.

I dont see that aussilover is doing anything wrong. A couple of corrections on a flat collar wont hurt anyone, and she's doing the right thing praising for the right behaviour when it happens

[Aidan]

Please don't take my reply as a criticism either, I was merely describing the terms used because the question was raised. A lot of potential is lost because people either won't split effectively, or correct appropriately. Then either the method or the dog gets the blame.

[koalathebear]

"Lumping" is an animal training term, it describes the process of the trainer asking for more of a response than the animal understands it is supposed to offer. A very obvious example would be to ask a 3 minute sit-stay when the animal has only ever demonstrated a 10 second sit-stay.

"Splitting" refers to breaking a behaviour down into pieces so tiny that the dog is able to meet each criterion easily. So, if the dog can perform a 10 second sit-stay, you would then ask for a 12 second sit-stay, then a 15 second sit-stay etc You've broken down the 3 minute sit-stay into smaller pieces so that the dog can succeed and you have something to reinforce.

When I started free-shaping behaviours I had a terrible time learning how to split, because I was used to lumping and correcting. This is not a value judgement on lumping or correcting, but if you want the best results from +R training you must learn to split effectively. "Make haste slowly" is the mantra I was given, the fastest progress comes with a bit of patience.

Thank you so much for the explanation. I had absolutely no idea it was a real technical term!!!