Murraya Hedge

[chuckie500]

There are lots of Murraya paniculata hedges around and they have red berries on them. Not much about them on the web, nbut does anyone know if they are bad for dogs?

Thanks

[noisymina]

I hope not. We have a heap of them here.

I've never seen them on the lists of plants poisonous to dogs. I think I would have noticed...seeing as we have them.

Not to say they are not poisonous, tho. Our Wei used to eat everything out there. Very healthy dog she was. Lived to nearly 16 -----

[chuckie500]

I too have never seen it on the poisonious list, but i wonder.

[Rusky]

no they are not toxic, we too are just growing a hedge of them. I found this

http://www.hear.org/pier/wra/pacific/murra...ata_htmlwra.htm

we can eat them too apparently :p

[noisymina]

Well..I started Googling..

These sites say it is non-toxic

http://www.busybirds.net/Toxic.html

http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/poison-contr...-list-dogs.html

These say Mock Ornage is - but it do not specify which Mock Orange they refer to. Could be any of at least three plants given that same common name.

http://www.naturalhealthtechniques.com/vet...ous_plants1.htm

http://www.doberdogs.com/Toxic.html

http://reviews.ebay.com.au/Dog-Foods-Plant...000000002753111

Soo..then I found this site saying that they can be toxic to humans but the active ingredient, Saponins, is seldom absorbed, making them not much of an issue.

http://www.weedyconnection.com/database/sw...ittosporum.html

Seems the Aloe Vera I have everywhere also contains the stuff!

Which then led to this most interesting article:

http://www.pinnaclepetsupply.com/saponin.htm

DOG FOOD & SAPONINS

A Scientific Study of Potential Risks Associated With Feeding

Saponin-Containing Ingredients

An Article by Mr. Robert Abady. President, Abady Dog Food Co. Ltd. Poughkeepsie, N.Y. 12601 USA. Ph. 1-845-473-1900

Soybeans and beet pulp are ingredients commonly used in dog feeds.

Both contain saponins- substances that may be hazardous to your dog's health.

In the late 1970's during feeding experiments, Robert Abady successfully linked the development of bloat and various gastrointestinal disorders, including colitis, to diets that contained large amounts of soybean meal and beet pulp.

Follow-up research isolated the substance contained in both ingredients that Mr. Abady believed was connected to these problems.

Saponins, when they are mixed with water and shaken, create a dense foam with a very high surface tension similar to shaving cream or the head on a beer.

The saponin foam envelops the feed, trapping the gasses produced by the normal fermentation of the ration thus preventing them from escaping via the normal oral and rectal routes.

As a result, the mass of ingested feed and gas trapped in the saponin foam will continue to expand until it cuts off the flow of blood to the major organs, eventually crushing them, and causing the dog to collapse from the excruciating pain and the buildup of toxic metabolites.

Theories advanced by industry spokesmen have included a gamut of explanations, including one which suggests that gluttony is responsible because ravenous eating causes the dog to gulp atmospheric air.

This theory has no scientific merit since air is mobile and will not accumulate under pressure unless it is physically prevented from escaping.

Dogs naturallygulp their food (particularly if fed chunks or raw meat) and, to this writer's knowledge, there are no recorded cases of bloat among carnivores in the wild.

Logic therefore, tells us that the explanation lies elsewhere.

In the 1980's, quite by accident, while examining the molecular structure of snake venom, Mr. Abady recognized that the highly paralytic component of snake venom was similar to another familiar structure - the saponin!

The last piece of the puzzle was in place.

Saponins were not only foaming agents, but toxins as well.

Follow-up research revealed that saponins suppress the vomiting reflex and can paralyse the gastro-intestinal tract, which explains why dogs cannot simply vomit the foam and fermenting feed.

Rectal elimination is largely prevented due to the suppression of natural peristaltic action of the intestines by the saponins, the impenetrability of the saponin foam and by the masses of expanded food and fibre contained in most commercial rations.

So yeh - don't let your doggy feast on Mock Oranges!

Edited October 3, 2010 by noisymina

[chuckie500]

Wow, that's more info than I could find.

Sounds like they are ok. Has anyone eaten one???

The red berries are everywhere at the moment and I was a bit worried.

Any other good hedging plants?

[rose of tralee]

Up here anyway (Qld) you do the environment a favour too by not growing the fertile, seed grown Murraya. Some nurseries may stock a cutting grown kind which sets little/ no fruit. My preference is for some kind of native lillypilly (Syzygium etc). Look for a species which doesn't suffer from unsightly pysllid infestation. The fruit are non-toxic and often quite yummy.

Another suggestion is to see what other kinds of hedging plants do well in your area, get an ID and do the research.

[Souff]

no they are not toxic, we too are just growing a hedge of them. I found this

http://www.hear.org/pier/wra/pacific/murra...ata_htmlwra.htm

we can eat them too apparently

Agreed. Not toxic to animals.

Not palatable either!

[chuckie500]

Wow thanks for all, the replies. I don't mind a bruxus as it is non fruiting.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

what about native rosemary aka westringia (quite a few varieties), makes nice hedge. Only trouble is with bees when it flowers. But we are learning to keep our noses off bees' tails.

[noisymina]

what about native rosemary aka westringia (quite a few varieties), makes nice hedge. Only trouble is with bees when it flowers. But we are learning to keep our noses off bees' tails.

Westringia fruiticosa has a very limited life span here. Dies off after a few years, so we are for ever replacing them. I don't think we will be planting any more.

There are heaps of other plants taking over their places anyway. Can't get into the jungle at all these days without a tomahawk.

.

Edited October 4, 2010 by noisymina