Dog Snapped At Baby, Help

[geo]

G'day all,

Last night whilst I was at work my dog growled/snapped at my baby (no damage done), now I've been told by my other half that she was standing right next to them and that our 15 month old was not touching, antagonising, she didn't have food, the dog didn't have food either and it just happend whilst they were walking down the hallway.

Now I know things just don't "happen" for no reason, and that both my daughter and our dog get along fine and spend lots of time together so this has come as a surprise.

The only thing I can think of is that there had been food preparation in the kitchen which was near to where it happened (though this always happens), it was getting close to the dogs dinner time but we hadn't eaten which is the general cue that they eat afterwards by which time our daughter is in bed, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to why this happened.

I think he may have done it as I (the boss) wasn't there, he obviously thinks he is above our daughter or was challenging her somehow? not sure but he was corrected and put outside straight away. The other reason I feel it may be as he's about 18 months and entire (not for long)

I fully blame myself for mismanaging the dog but I'm not entirely sure what we have to do to rectify the situation.

So far what we've decided on is;

Any interaction as always will be with us right next to our baby, but with us holding her as normally she likes to climb over him and he has always been gentle with her even though he is a big dog.

Secondly food, they never eat with her around (though she has fed him bits of rusk that he has previously taken very genlty from her, I know this is wrong and hasn't happened for a while)

We really want them to get along fine (which they do) as she adores the dogs and loves being around them, but just in a safer manner. The dogs spend most of the time outside and only come in for short periods and at night time.

Any ideas welcome.

Edited January 15, 2011 by geo

[cmkelpie]

What a concern for you! You need to contact a professional immediately, many people on here will recommend Steve from K9 PRO.

Everything you have planned is great but you need more help

Edit: to add I just noticed you are not in Sydney.... I am sure someone can recommend a professional closer to you.

Edited January 15, 2011 by cmkelpie

[geo]

What a concern for you! You need to contact a professional immediately, many people on here will recommend Steve from K9 PRO.

Everything you have planned is great but you need more help

Edit: to add I just noticed you are not in Sydney.... I am sure someone can recommend a professional closer to you.

I'm in remote NT but can get to Darwin.

[cmkelpie]

Perhaps send K9 Pro an email, Steve may be able to recommend someone up your way

Edited January 16, 2011 by cmkelpie

[dancinbcs]

G'day all,

Last night whilst I was at work my dog growled/snapped at my baby (no damage done), now I've been told by my other half that she was standing right next to them and that our 15 month old was not touching, antagonising, she didn't have food, the dog didn't have food either and it just happend whilst they were walking down the hallway.

Now I know things just don't "happen" for no reason, and that both my daughter and our dog get along fine and spend lots of time together so this has come as a surprise.

The only thing I can think of is that there had been food preparation in the kitchen which was near to where it happened (though this always happens), it was getting close to the dogs dinner time but we hadn't eaten which is the general cue that they eat afterwards by which time our daughter is in bed, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to why this happened.

I think he may have done it as I (the boss) wasn't there, he obviously thinks he is above our daughter or was challenging her somehow? not sure but he was corrected and put outside straight away. The other reason I feel it may be as he's about 18 months and entire (not for long)

I fully blame myself for mismanaging the dog but I'm not entirely sure what we have to do to rectify the situation.

So far what we've decided on is;

Any interaction as always will be with us right next to our baby, but with us holding her as normally she likes to climb over him and he has always been gentle with her even though he is a big dog.

Secondly food, they never eat with her around (though she has fed him bits of rusk that he has previously taken very genlty from her, I know this is wrong and hasn't happened for a while)

We really want them to get along fine (which they do) as she adores the dogs and loves being around them, but just in a safer manner. The dogs spend most of the time outside and only come in for short periods and at night time.

Any ideas welcome.

Private trainer if you can find one, even if it is by phone consult. Also desexing the dog should help the situation. Also a full vet check would be a good idea to see if her has any sore spots or pain that would be making him cranky.

Of course he thinks he is above your daughter. He is a large adult dog and she is a small baby. Letting her climb over the dog is just asking for trouble and very dangerous if she thinks it is ok to do that to a dog. That places her in a position of making the dog submit to her and he has obviously decided that it is time he asserted himself and put her in her place (from his point of view).

I don't believe any dog sees children as above them in rank until the children reach about 5 years old and are old enough to act like adults do around the dog. ie. giving commands, rewarding the dog, controlling it on a lead. Up until then some dogs are tolerant of babies and toddlers like they would be of puppies until they decide enough is enough. I have seen dogs put up with anything from kids until the children reach about 2-3, then the dog decides they should be old enough to treat it better and starts reacting to inappropriate behaviour from the children.

Don't know how dog savvy your OH is but they needs to learn to read the dog. There was probably a warning sign there that was missed. In this case it is a bit odd that the dog reacted when seemingly not challenged so you need to ensure that the dog is never alone with your daughter. Try to keep her above him when they are together. eg: keep her up on the lounge and the dog on the floor to avoid him standing over her. Do not let her poke, prod or do anything to the dog other than patting him and remember to praise the dog for being calm in her presence and never ever let her corner him so he feels like the only way to escape her is to nip.

This may be a one off situation where the dog was out of sorts, was startled or felt threatened for some reason. It sounds like he gave a warning snap and didn't intend to bite but your daughters safety must come first. Carefully try to fix the situation but if it looks like things will get worse, not better then have the dog assessed and make a decision to rehome or euthanase.

[geo]

Any interactions have been supervised and the dog is continually praised for being gentle. It was totally out of sorts.

Other Half is dog savy, though I wasn't there.

Thanks for your comments, please keep them coming as we want this situation sorted.

[Alyosha]

Was there anything in the environment that was concerning the dog? Could it have been a protective "get back" type of growl?

[geo]

I don't think so, nothing unusual just a normal day. He just generally likes to lounge around where we are.

[sas]

Dog wasn't snapping at something else like....a fly? Was definately at the child?

[poodlefan]

Any interactions have been supervised and the dog is continually praised for being gentle. It was totally out of sorts.

Other Half is dog savy, though I wasn't there.

Thanks for your comments, please keep them coming as we want this situation sorted.

Your baby is getting bigger and your dog is getting older. Stop the baby climbing on him NOW. He shouldn't have to "tolerate it". And its a dangerous lesson to teach a child that a living animal is to be treated like that. He isn't a bean bag.

Get a full vet check - this may be pain related.

And for your dog's and your child's sake, please stop seeing their interactions as all about dominance and pack hierarchy. Nothing you do will make your dog see your toddler as "higher in the pack order".

Get a professional in to assess this NOW.

Edited January 16, 2011 by poodlefan

[geo]

Thanks PF, the climbing over was an example of me trying to explain how comfortable he was with her and ceratinly doesn't happen on a regular basis (but your right he's not there for her entertainment), any situation where I think he doesn't want any attention I certainly remove our daughter.

I didn't mean to infer that it's all about hierarchy (i don't know why it happened), again just trying to say that he has to be gentle around her, and so far always has.

Our annual vet check is soon, trying to find good professional help in the NT at the moment.

[geo]

Dog wasn't snapping at something else like....a fly? Was definately at the child?

no definately our daughter

[poodlefan]

Thanks PF, the climbing over was an example of me trying to explain how comfortable he was with her and ceratinly doesn't happen on a regular basis (but your right he's not there for her entertainment), any situation where I think he doesn't want any attention I certainly remove our daughter.

I didn't mean to infer that it's all about hierarchy (i don't know why it happened), again just trying to say that he has to be gentle around her, and so far always has.

Our annual vet check is soon, trying to find good professional help in the NT at the moment.

K9Pro does phone consults I think. That would be my starting point.

If your dog isn't crate trained, I'd be starting that. Giving him a place where he knows he will be left alone and educating your daughter to that end would be a valuable management tool.

And bear this in mind. Your dog SNAPPED. He warned... and you're acting on the warning. Teach your daughter the same and be very carefull about disciplining that snapping. Extinguishing warnings is never a good thing.

[geo]

Thanks PF, the climbing over was an example of me trying to explain how comfortable he was with her and ceratinly doesn't happen on a regular basis (but your right he's not there for her entertainment), any situation where I think he doesn't want any attention I certainly remove our daughter.

I didn't mean to infer that it's all about hierarchy (i don't know why it happened), again just trying to say that he has to be gentle around her, and so far always has.

Our annual vet check is soon, trying to find good professional help in the NT at the moment.

K9Pro does phone consults I think. That would be my starting point.

If your dog isn't crate trained, I'd be starting that. Giving him a place where he knows he will be left alone and educating your daughter to that end would be a valuable management tool.

And bear this in mind. Your dog SNAPPED. He warned... and you're acting on the warning. Teach your daughter the same and be very carefull about disciplining that snapping. Extinguishing warnings is never a good thing.

Have sent them an email already, hopefully they'll be able to help out. There are several trainers that will tell you to say"NO" whilst holding the dogs head and looking at them, some say place outside on the chain (which i have never done),.

You're right i don't want to get rid of his warning signs, how would you have corrected him? i probably would've grabbed his head and made him drop whilst saying no... so far i've only had to correct him whilst other dogs have been around, he'll remove himself from anywhere i don't want him to be with a simple "off" or "leave it"

[poodlefan]

Have sent them an email already, hopefully they'll be able to help out. There are several trainers that will tell you to say"NO" whilst holding the dogs head and looking at them, some say place outside on the chain (which i have never done),.

You're right i don't want to get rid of his warning signs, how would you have corrected him? i probably would've grabbed his head and made him drop whilst saying no... so far i've only had to correct him whilst other dogs have been around, he'll remove himself from anywhere i don't want him to be with a simple "off" or "leave it"

I probably would have given a simple very loud "Oi" and left it at that. If you don't know why the dog snapped I'd sure as hell wouldn't be putting my hands near his head.

There's no way I'd be letting this dog near my child unless under close supervision though - clearly there's something going on and you need to be in prevention mode now.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Poodlefan is spot on, very worrying and keep the dog away from the baby until you know what is going on.

Never let a child climb on or over a dog, ever.

[geo]

Yes, we had I feel become somewhat relaxed (always vigilant). Of course things have immediately changed on our part and stricter rules are in place for us. We are very lucky.

On a good note he was barking this morning and he's not a barker, so we checked it out immediately and there was a snake in our daughters tunnel and climbing frame. It was a keel back (rear fanged so not going to be an issue) but we do get browns, whip snakes and death adders so he done something good.

[Nekhbet]

out of character behaviour warrants a vey thorough vet check. As for the snapping was the dog facing the baby or not when the growling started?

[geo]

Apparently (since talking it through with my OH) baby was running from our table to chair and was running towards the dog and he reacted in a way that he does when the 2 dogs play togther, though there isn't normally any growling involved. So baby was excited pointing at dog and running around which explains a little.

[sas]

Dog wasn't snapping at something else like....a fly? Was definately at the child?

no definately our daughter

Sorry to hear that, you really only have a couple of options, one of those is to work with a qualified Behaviourist. Good Luck, I hope there is a positive outcome for all concerned.