corvus Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 What do you think will gain more attention in dog training in the near future? What would you like to see become common place? What do you think needs more development or better understanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) What do you think will gain more attention in dog training in the near future?theoryWhat would you like to see become common place?practice Edited February 23, 2011 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I don't knwo if this is what you're after Corvus, but... I would like to see more clubs focussing on training for well behaved pets and making training more fun for the people. I think the club I go to has tried to start doing this this year. Previously it was more of the hour-of-paddock-bashing variety. Having a mastiff x this is just not relevant to me or him. He has about five minutes of work in him before he switches off. I just take him to keep up with his socialisation more than anything. Same with agility. Really we are not that interested in agility its just that its the only other thing offered and its suits him because we can do five minutes on and 20 minutes off. I would like to see games like the doggie version of musical chairs. Its fun and teaches some good skills at the same time. Recently our club did a town walk (walking up the main street and stopping for a while to have a coffee). It was great! I don't mean clubs shouldn't focus on Obedience, Agility etc. but I think it would be good for there to be a focus on what is needed for an average pet dog and getting people to understand their pet dog and spend time with them. A lot of pet dog owners start off going to puppy schools but don't continue classes because the focus becomes more on formal obedience; and they don't want to do that, and they don't find it fun. However I could be off the mark with this, afterall I'm really just responding to what goes on in my home town Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Vickie's pretty much nailed it. I think we'll see more and more "behavioural" training in the future. More focus on problem solving than problem prevention. I don't necessarily consider that to be a good thing. Trainers are already (IMO) training handlers about dog basics as much as they are training dogs. I think if dogs continue to become surrogate little humans for some owners, that market will increase. The market also seems to consider that 8 weeks is enough training for a pup to last them for life. Behaviour modification will continue to be the training that picks up the pieces afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I agree with PF. I would LOVE to see a shift toward problem prevention rather than problem solving. However, convincing people to be pro active about their dogs when their currently isn't a problem in their eyes is so very hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 well exactly and if people can keep attending training clubs and continue to socialise their dogs, problems will be prevented. Lots of people don't even take their dog to puppy school. And then even out of the people who do, only a very small amount go on to do any further training with their dog. Not that I have any statistics, but that seems pretty clear to me. So that's why it would be good to see a shift to more people attending training and for clubs to also cater for the average pet owner as well as those who want to do more formal activities. That's where I'd like to see things headed but whether it will head that way or not? I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Part of my research interest is the relationship between human attitudes and human behaviour (and obviously the effect on dog behaviour) and ways in which you can cause long-term attitude change. So obviously that's what I'd like to see more of! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 What do you think will gain more attention in dog training in the near future?theoryWhat would you like to see become common place?practice As much as I enjoy the theory and the possibilities it brings, it's the pointy end of dog training and most people just need to get going with a solid foundation using the absolute basics. TAGteach will gain popularity, that is inevitable, and dog trainers will figure out ways to use it with clients. Conditioned inhibition or learned safety will get some more attention, particularly for separation anxiety. We'll all start offering Treibball classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I would love to see clubs focus on teaching good pet citizens, and not on formal obedience (which has its place, but it doesn't meet a lot of people's requirements). When I went to a club, lessons were an hour long, the instructor insisted that we all stand in a neat line with only 1m between dogs (and there were 2 very reactive dogs), we had to teach about 12 exercises including a "step, step, auto sit" routine (and this was for beginners class). Many of the people there were repeating the lesson cycle for a 2nd or 3rd time, hoping to pass. The focus was on passing the class and not on learning (in fact, I was told my non-reactive boy should always be between the two very large reactive dogs so they wouldn't fight in front of the assessor and could therefore pass). I would like something that focused on socialisation (and how it isn't just letting your dog off leash and hoping for the best), how to let your dog off leash safely (proper recall training, not "sit, stay, come"), how to enter an off leash park safely (don't let your dog off leash at the entrance, don't let your dog hang around the gate etc), lots of socialisation (instructors dressing up in funny costumes, mock parties etc), "look at that game", how to ensure your dog gets adequate mental and physical exercise in a suburban environment (games to play at home, how often you should walk your dog). Cosmolo - when I went to your classes with Lucy, the first lesson was my idea of heaven! The dogs all knew sit beforehand, and we spent the lesson on socialisation (and ignoring other dogs) exercises. It was a lot of fun and all of the dogs were a lot more relaxed and owner focused at the end of it. I think if the above happened, classes would be fun and much of the drama that comes with dog ownership could be avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) I would love to see the end of choke chains and harsh corrections. One of the most experienced but least educated instructor at our club yesterday, instructed one of my class mates to give her naughty lab a "Correction" which involved a mighty reef on the choke collar and yelling "NO" at it. Instructor said it was ok because dog had run off instead of doing a recall, and had been caught by someone else. She didn't get that if you deliver the adversive, the dog is going to look to avoid you. Several of the rest of us would quit class before we let that happen to us or our dogs. There would certainly be a stand up ding dong fight about it. At least she's not chief instructor this year and this year's chief instructor has been to McGreevy's seminar so knows something about learning theory and how bad choke chains are (in his opinion - which I had some studies to wave at people). Personally, I know a lot more about learning theory and how to apply it (even if I'm still relatively crap in practice). And I know a lot more about "fall out" from harsh badly timed or inappropriate punishment. Still see people punish their dogs for coming back e v e n t u a l l y, and wonder why that doesn't fix the problem. How stupid can you be? Still not sure about what to do with my dog who will blow me off in favour of possum poo grazing even when I've got the best treats in my bag, and never punish her for coming back to me no matter how embarred or frustrated I get when she's naughty. Edited February 23, 2011 by Mrs Rusty Bucket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I would love to see clubs focus on teaching good pet citizens, and not on formal obedience (which has its place, but it doesn't meet a lot of people's requirements). This! I would like to see more Canine Good Citizenship program running because I think it's fantastic. It really teaches the people that having a well behave dog, they will enjoy their dog more and want to spend more time with their dogs. I know there are a lot of people who don't want to go to obedience classes because it's boring, but they want to have well behave dogs but don't know how to do that. So programs like CGC and other home pet obedience classes, I think, will help people like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I would love to see more focus on foundation work and relationship building. I know most first time people are in a hurry to get to the 'sexy' stuff and it is hard to get them to understand the importance of foundation work, but it really makes things so much easier later on. And you can make foundation work fun! I really enjoy revving Kaos up and sending him to his toy, doing perch work and balancing on logs when we go to the park, and back up is such a cool and useful trick that can impress friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) The question is though- how do we get people to do some of these things? Providing it is not the only solution- its having societal pressure to encourage people to utilise such services that is also needed. ETA Thanks Megan, thats kind of you to say. We have some new exercises that we have just introduced this year that are yielding great results too and similar in terms of being practical etc. Edited February 23, 2011 by Cosmolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Still not sure about what to do with my dog who will blow me off in favour of possum poo grazing even when I've got the best treats in my bag I guess this is where the link between theory and practice breaks down. Use a long line, give him a little pop, if he doesn't start coming back then reel him in gently. If he starts to come towards you, the reward is to be released back to the possum poo. This is slightly more savoury than carrying around a bag of possum poo to use as training treats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Several of the rest of us would quit class before we let that happen to us or our dogs. There would certainly be a stand up ding dong fight about it. At least she's not chief instructor this year and this year's chief instructor has been to McGreevy's seminar so knows something about learning theory and how bad choke chains are (in his opinion - which I had some studies to wave at people). There's nothing "bad" about check chains if used correctly. Studies to the contrary will be thin on the ground because used correctly they cause no harm. I fail to see how any learning theory could rate a piece of training equipment as "bad". Most learning theory acknowledges the appropriate use of aversives. For some dogs they are absolutely the most appropriate collar. Don't taint the equipment with the kind of uses uninformed people can put it to. Personally I'd rather see a correction delivered in a check chain than on a head collar. .. don't kind yourself that reefing and jerking a dog on a head collar never happens. I would like to see dog training heading away from the labels applied to some methods by those who don't care for them. Most "positive" dog trainers aren't purely positive but that's the label that attracts the business these days. Our club completely changed its curriculum a few years back to cater for pet/companionship training. Problem was, basing classes on the needs of those who only stayed short term (even if they are the majority) failed to prepare those who wanted to go on to do other things with the basics they needed. Long term trainers are the next generation of instructors and the back bone of our club. The pendulum has swung back towards the middle for now thank God. Edited February 23, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 That's okay. One of my dogs loves to look for dead fish and birds on the high tide line at the beach. So I started carrying dead fish. He digs Whitebait as a recall treat. There's no getting him away from a dead bird, though, and I don't think I can get a steady supply of day old quail chicks for recall treats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) What do you think will gain more attention in dog training in the near future?theoryWhat would you like to see become common place?practice As much as I enjoy the theory and the possibilities it brings, it's the pointy end of dog training and most people just need to get going with a solid foundation using the absolute basics. Agreed. I love theory, I love practising it. It's hard to practise without some theory but personally I find theory useless if you do not practise it. I think when you surround yourself in theory (as seems to be the current trend), it can all become a bit of a mess in your mind. Read 10 different articles & you will read 10 different ideas. It is overwhelming sometimes & very hard for the average person to apply any of it. Some dog training requires complex theory to achieve the results you want, but not all. Some dog problems need analysis of why in order to fix them, many can just be fixed. The basic one liner of reward the good & ignore (or punish) the bad can actually make lots of training very simple. Why apply a page or a book of theory when the above line covers an extraordinary range of training challenges. I would liken dog training to photography. You can get a fancy camera. You can read a hundred manuals, view an online tutorial and be actively involved in a discussion forum. Yet until you actually start taking photos, you are not a photographer. There is no way you can get the best out of all the functions at once, no matter how much you have researched. There is no way you can take consistently good photos until a.) you have made some mistakes & learnt from them b.) you have practised over & over again with different functions/techniques c.) you have attempted a range of challenges d.) you stop & actually look at what is in front of you. Hope that makes sense, LOL, sometimes I go overboard with analogies, but it is just how I see it. Edited February 23, 2011 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Our club completely changed its curriculum a few years back to cater for pet/companionship training. Problem was, basing classes on the needs of those who only stayed short term (even if they are the majority) failed to prepare those who wanted to go on to do other things with the basics they needed. Long term trainers are the next generation of instructors and the back bone of our club. The pendulum has swung back towards the middle for now thank God. yeah it would definitely be a shame to only cater for pet dog training especially as usually the most dedicated are into the more formal stuff. I just look around my neighbourhood and see so much misunderstanding and I think of how much better some dogs lives would be if their owners had gone to training. the people around the corner from me who got a GSD puppy and it is over a year old now and has been taken for one walk since the got it These people believe that if they take it for walks it will want to escape! What a dreadful life for any dog to never see the outside of its backyard. So much of this wouldn't happen if people attended training and actually learned something about their dog and built a relationship with their dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 There's no getting him away from a dead bird, though just curious, are you saying this is impossible to ever resolve or just not possible with the range of solutions you have tested so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Our club completely changed its curriculum a few years back to cater for pet/companionship training. Problem was, basing classes on the needs of those who only stayed short term (even if they are the majority) failed to prepare those who wanted to go on to do other things with the basics they needed. Long term trainers are the next generation of instructors and the back bone of our club. The pendulum has swung back towards the middle for now thank God. I dont' see why there can't be a mix of pet classes and obedience classes at a club? If people found the pet classes interesting and actually saw the results and how they improved their relationship with their dog then they might be more interested in the obedience stuff too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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