Why Is Aus Becoming So Non Dog Friendly

[Inevitablue]

Reading about the attack on the child in SW Sydney and speaking to some french people this morning got me wondering. Why is dog ownership and dogs in general going backwards in Australian society? Dogs seem to be more celebrated in other countries.

What are the major factors contributing to the tragedies, the tighter controls and the public perception.

Are the changing cultural demographics contributing? Is it the 'boganess' of Aussies, compared to the refinement of the French? Is it the 'I want without putting in any hard yards' attitude of the younger demographic? Is it the ease of access to dogs in pet shops?........... there are so many factors and each contribute Im sure.

For one, I dislike the attitude in Australian culture that its seems to be everyones right to have a dog in the backyard regardless of the dogs quality of life.

My parent's instilled in me that a dog was more work and more responsibility than a horse, and I had to commit to going to dog school, walking the dog every day, make sure it wasn't a danger to society etc etc.

[piperspal]

From my own observations as a step mum to a young adult who was given everything he wanted as a way of easing his parents guilt, it seems to be the gimme attitude of a lot of people. He decided he wanted a bulldog, and no amount of reasoning would change his mind. I tried the old "but its a dog that doesnt really like the heat" through to "we already have 3 dogs", the only things that worked was to tell him that if he looked after hte other 3 dogs for a month we would think about it. He walked them once and was sick when he had to do the 'poo patrol', so he kinda stopped wanting one. He wasnt prepared to put in the work he needed to.

There is also the attitude of "but its only a dog!", especially when you see some of the ones around Alice. People want to have something that is cute, or a status symbol, but dont appreciate the hard work that someone eklse has put in to the animal previously.

[fuzzy82]

I don't know what it is, but Aussies in general seem to have an aversion towards keeping dogs inside and taking them to training classes, or training them in general.

I am European originally, and in Europe 99% of dogs are kept inside with the families, even during the day when the family is at work. Most dogs are trained, a lot of them are taken to training classes from an early age. Clicker training and crating is much more popular over there than what it is here in Australia.

Here, when we walked past a dog we usually get lunged at or the dog pulls like crazy to get to us. In Europe, dogs are walked off leash and ignore all strangers and other dogs, and are generally much more well behaved. If your dog isn't trained in Europe, you would be embarrassed to be seen in public with it, and other dog owners would frown at you for not bothering to train your dog.

Don't know why, but that was one of the first things I noticed when I moved here.

Edited March 8, 2011 by fuzzy82

[RallyValley]

Reading about the attack on the child in SW Sydney and speaking to some french people this morning got me wondering. Why is dog ownership and dogs in general going backwards in Australian society? Dogs seem to be more celebrated in other countries.

What are the major factors contributing to the tragedies, the tighter controls and the public perception.

Are the changing cultural demographics contributing? Is it the 'boganess' of Aussies, compared to the refinement of the French? Is it the 'I want without putting in any hard yards' attitude of the younger demographic? Is it the ease of access to dogs in pet shops?........... there are so many factors and each contribute Im sure.

For one, I dislike the attitude in Australian culture that its seems to be everyones right to have a dog in the backyard regardless of the dogs quality of life.

My parent's instilled in me that a dog was more work and more responsibility than a horse, and I had to commit to going to dog school, walking the dog every day, make sure it wasn't a danger to society etc etc.

Yes blame the young people My parents obviously didn't teach me manners or a correct attitude and my poor dog who sees a behaviourist once a month, vet/physio every 6 weeks, daily walks and training and sleeps on my bed bviously suffers for my age. Oh and the fact I work a shiftwork job while I am studying so I can afford to do these things for him is evidence of my 'I want without putting in any hard yards attitude'.

Stereotypes help no-one! Just ask the people who own Pitbulls.

Edited March 8, 2011 by RallyValley

[~Rumour~]

There is no one age demographic to blame, it is the idea that so many people have that it is fine to treat a dog like a backyard ornament instead of a member of the family.

[wuffles]

One of the reasons as I see it is such strict laws and regulations about what you can and can't do with your dog. I'd like to take mine with me everywhere but even sitting outside with them at cafes is hit and miss. Sometimes they're not even allowed on ovals to watch sports games on weekends. If I want to go over a friend's house, most of them would shudder at the idea of me bringing my dogs over. And God forbid they be let off leash anywhere but a fenced dog park!

[megan_]

In a nutshell: owners.

To expand on this a bit more, someone from Finland posted recently about the differences in attitudes between Finland and Australia.

From it, I gathered:

i) Dog ownership was considered a privilege. You saved until you could afford one, had stable housing, researched the dog that you wanted etc. You didn't buy one because you had a dog growing up and you think the kids would like it (even though you don't actually want one yourself). Australia has a very high level of dog ownership. Often this is touted as a good thing, but I don't think it is. I think there are many dogs sitting in backyard, bought because they were cute/looked like a wolf/keep the kids busy etc that aren't really cared for. People have very different lifestyles these days and unless they are willing to make some sacrifices they shouldn't get a dog. There is nothing wrong with choosing other priorities over a dog, as long as you don't go out and buy one.

ii) The standard of expected care was a lot higher. If you didn't walk your dog regularly, people would - out of concern for the dog - talk to you about it. If you didn't do anything then you'd get a visit from the police (I think). None of this "it's none of your business" or "I'm gunna deck yous" crap.

iii) Because of the points above, dog ownership rates are lower. People value their dogs and take them out to training, socialisation etc.

A well trained, well behaved dog is a pleasure to have around. And so they are allowed in a lot more places.

Until there is a fundamental shift in Australian attitudes, I think things are just going to get worse. I, for one, wouldn't want 90% of dogs in my local area anywhere near a restuarant that I was having a nice meal at. They would spoil it, and there owners would let them.

[megan_]

One of the reasons as I see it is such strict laws and regulations about what you can and can't do with your dog. I'd like to take mine with me everywhere but even sitting outside with them at cafes is hit and miss. Sometimes they're not even allowed on ovals to watch sports games on weekends. If I want to go over a friend's house, most of them would shudder at the idea of me bringing my dogs over. And God forbid they be let off leash anywhere but a fenced dog park!

But why do we have the strict laws?

My local now has a tiny park where no dogs are allowed at all. I asked them about this and the response was that there was a significant demand (via letters written to the council) for an area where people could play with their children safely without being harrassed by dogs.

We can blame councils all we like, but I think the buck stops with owners.

[wuffles]

I totally agree that there are lots of idiot owners out there. But I also think tolerance might come into play.

I was at our local oval last night which is also a dog off leash area outside of school hours (which I believe is a big no-no in some states). There were lots of parents and kids there running, playing ball games. There were also a few dogs. Most of the dogs ignored the kids and vice versa. One of the dogs (not mine) went up to a child to say hello. Child patted dog, dog moved on. Everyone happy. I don't know whether we should be banning these kind of situations just because of the potential of something to go wrong... it was such a nice afternoon.

[tommygirl]

Reading about the attack on the child in SW Sydney and speaking to some french people this morning got me wondering. Why is dog ownership and dogs in general going backwards in Australian society? Dogs seem to be more celebrated in other countries.

What are the major factors contributing to the tragedies, the tighter controls and the public perception.

Are the changing cultural demographics contributing? Is it the 'boganess' of Aussies, compared to the refinement of the French? Is it the 'I want without putting in any hard yards' attitude of the younger demographic? Is it the ease of access to dogs in pet shops?........... there are so many factors and each contribute Im sure.

For one, I dislike the attitude in Australian culture that its seems to be everyones right to have a dog in the backyard regardless of the dogs quality of life.

My parent's instilled in me that a dog was more work and more responsibility than a horse, and I had to commit to going to dog school, walking the dog every day, make sure it wasn't a danger to society etc etc.

I find that really insulting.

I dont agree that we are non-dog friendly.

Visit some third world countries and then you will see non-dog friendly.

[Diva]

I love that about the canberra ovals Wuffles - and mostly the dogs just accept the boundaries and don't go near the kids. I think it makes for a better behaved dog when it's all just part of the mix and they have to share the space and get over any novelty value.

[Inevitablue]

Yes blame the young people My parents obviously didn't teach me manners or a correct attitude and my poor dog who sees a behaviourist once a month, vet/physio every 6 weeks, daily walks and training and sleeps on my bed bviously suffers for my age. Oh and the fact I work a shiftwork job while I am studying so I can afford to do these things for him is evidence of my 'I want without putting in any hard yards attitude'.

Stereotypes help no-one! Just ask the people who own Pitbulls.

While stereotypes dont help people, there is a reason why they do get applied. Im no old-timer myself, and like you, I managed to study full time from home, maintain a full time job plus a part time job as well as look after my dogs exceptionally well.

My comment wasn't blaming the younger generation, it was throwing out there -the possibilty that the well known generational changes in society and the current 'I want and I want now'. Surely you look around at the younger generation and see this? Surely you can acknowledge the growth in younger people who want a particular dog simply because of fashion and image, without much consideration to the responsibility.

I'd say most of the people on this forum, regardless of generation, are not the problem

[wuffles]

I love that about the canberra ovals Wuffles - and mostly the dogs just accept the boundaries and don't go near the kids. I think it makes for a better behaved dog when it's all just part of the mix and they have to share the space and get over any novelty value.

Me too, it would be such a pity if anything happened to that I've been taking my girl to ovals since she was a puppy, sometimes for play, sometimes for training, and although she loves kids and will sometimes look at them and wiggle her bum, she promptly returns to me when asked.

I also have to admit that some of the 'bogans' around here have the most brilliantly behaved dogs Where I work has a lot of housing commission and townhouses and there are often people walking their dogs off leash around the main roads, ignoring everything and everyone except their owners. Not something I'd do myself, but obviously the dogs have been brought up that way and know what's expected of them

[fuzzy82]

In a nutshell: owners.

To expand on this a bit more, someone from Finland posted recently about the differences in attitudes between Finland and Australia.

From it, I gathered:

i) Dog ownership was considered a privilege. You saved until you could afford one, had stable housing, researched the dog that you wanted etc. You didn't buy one because you had a dog growing up and you think the kids would like it (even though you don't actually want one yourself). Australia has a very high level of dog ownership. Often this is touted as a good thing, but I don't think it is. I think there are many dogs sitting in backyard, bought because they were cute/looked like a wolf/keep the kids busy etc that aren't really cared for. People have very different lifestyles these days and unless they are willing to make some sacrifices they shouldn't get a dog. There is nothing wrong with choosing other priorities over a dog, as long as you don't go out and buy one.

ii) The standard of expected care was a lot higher. If you didn't walk your dog regularly, people would - out of concern for the dog - talk to you about it. If you didn't do anything then you'd get a visit from the police (I think). None of this "it's none of your business" or "I'm gunna deck yous" crap.

iii) Because of the points above, dog ownership rates are lower. People value their dogs and take them out to training, socialisation etc.

A well trained, well behaved dog is a pleasure to have around. And so they are allowed in a lot more places.

Until there is a fundamental shift in Australian attitudes, I think things are just going to get worse. I, for one, wouldn't want 90% of dogs in my local area anywhere near a restuarant that I was having a nice meal at. They would spoil it, and there owners would let them.

I agree with this. I am not from Finland, but where I am from the attitude is generally the same. A dog is seen as a big commitment, not just something to stick in the backyard.

[Inevitablue]

I find that really insulting.

I dont agree that we are non-dog friendly.

Visit some third world countries and then you will see non-dog friendly.

Its not meant to be insulting, I apologise if you think it is, but in context of the whole sentence I do believe it holds some relevance.

Perhaps a better choice of word would be better, but the sentence does communicate my point.

The title is also why is Australia becoming so un dog friendly. I can barely access any beaches anymore, cannot let my dog offlead with effective control etc etc. Wouldn't you like to be more like some European countries where your dog could travel on the train, join you at a cafe and enjoy a swim at a beach without an hour drive?

Third world countries are not used for this comparison. The health of aussie dogs is second to none, but how they fit into society and the increasing restraints placed on Aussie dog owners certainly is

[raz]

Wouldn't you like to be more like some European countries where your dog could travel on the train, join you at a cafe and enjoy a swim at a beach without an hour drive?

No.

I find your thread really insulting as well.

[RallyValley]

Yes blame the young people My parents obviously didn't teach me manners or a correct attitude and my poor dog who sees a behaviourist once a month, vet/physio every 6 weeks, daily walks and training and sleeps on my bed bviously suffers for my age. Oh and the fact I work a shiftwork job while I am studying so I can afford to do these things for him is evidence of my 'I want without putting in any hard yards attitude'.

Stereotypes help no-one! Just ask the people who own Pitbulls.

While stereotypes dont help people, there is a reason why they do get applied. Im no old-timer myself, and like you, I managed to study full time from home, maintain a full time job plus a part time job as well as look after my dogs exceptionally well.

My comment wasn't blaming the younger generation, it was throwing out there -the possibilty that the well known generational changes in society and the current 'I want and I want now'. Surely you look around at the younger generation and see this? Surely you can acknowledge the growth in younger people who want a particular dog simply because of fashion and image, without much consideration to the responsibility.

I'd say most of the people on this forum, regardless of generation, are not the problem

Maybe there are young people out there like that, most of my friends are uni students, work at my job or are involved with dogs so maybe more 'responsible' then most, but I am not aware of that many more young people with that attitude then older people who have that attitude (i.e 30 yo's with big credit card debts, a 50 yo I know who wanted to retire and now can't afford the mortgage). Ask anyone who has advertised a litter of pups, impulse and unresearched dog enquiries come from all age ranges! (In fact my older aunties and uncles (my parents generation) have mostly pet shop dogs/impulse buys and my and my cousins generation mostly have dogs from registered breeders).

[megan_]

I totally agree that there are lots of idiot owners out there. But I also think tolerance might come into play.

I was at our local oval last night which is also a dog off leash area outside of school hours (which I believe is a big no-no in some states). There were lots of parents and kids there running, playing ball games. There were also a few dogs. Most of the dogs ignored the kids and vice versa. One of the dogs (not mine) went up to a child to say hello. Child patted dog, dog moved on. Everyone happy. I don't know whether we should be banning these kind of situations just because of the potential of something to go wrong... it was such a nice afternoon.

Where are they banned? In Victoria, there are no such things as dog parks. All off leash areas are multi use. I really like that . At my local park, kids play footy, uni students play cricket, one guy plays with his remote control car and dogs are playing around them.

[tommygirl]

I find that really insulting.

I dont agree that we are non-dog friendly.

Visit some third world countries and then you will see non-dog friendly.

Its not meant to be insulting, I apologise if you think it is, but in context of the whole sentence I do believe it holds some relevance.

Perhaps a better choice of word would be better, but the sentence does communicate my point.

The title is also why is Australia becoming so un dog friendly. I can barely access any beaches anymore, cannot let my dog offlead with effective control etc etc. Wouldn't you like to be more like some European countries where your dog could travel on the train, join you at a cafe and enjoy a swim at a beach without an hour drive?

Third world countries are not used for this comparison. The health of aussie dogs is second to none, but how they fit into society and the increasing restraints placed on Aussie dog owners certainly is

Maybe it just depends where you live in Aus then.

Down the end of my street, there is a beach that is off leash 24-7 and the majority of others around me are off leash after 4pm. All the showers at the beach have little built in water bowls down the bottom for dogs.

There is another 3 off leash dog parks within 5km from my house, and another two that are within about 7km that are specifically for dogs, one with agility equipment etc.

My local cafe that I go to has water bowls out front for dogs.

The two servos that are closest to me have little water bowls and doggy tie-up poles at the front door.

I guess I find this interesting as I know 10 years ago, there was no dog parks, no water bowls in the beach showers etc...

Edit to add- why cant I use third world countries as a comparison when you are comparing Australia to Europe? I just dont think Australia is as bad as you are making it out to be.

Edited March 8, 2011 by tommygirl

[Inevitablue]

Yes blame the young people My parents obviously didn't teach me manners or a correct attitude and my poor dog who sees a behaviourist once a month, vet/physio every 6 weeks, daily walks and training and sleeps on my bed bviously suffers for my age. Oh and the fact I work a shiftwork job while I am studying so I can afford to do these things for him is evidence of my 'I want without putting in any hard yards attitude'.

Stereotypes help no-one! Just ask the people who own Pitbulls.

While stereotypes dont help people, there is a reason why they do get applied. Im no old-timer myself, and like you, I managed to study full time from home, maintain a full time job plus a part time job as well as look after my dogs exceptionally well.

My comment wasn't blaming the younger generation, it was throwing out there -the possibilty that the well known generational changes in society and the current 'I want and I want now'. Surely you look around at the younger generation and see this? Surely you can acknowledge the growth in younger people who want a particular dog simply because of fashion and image, without much consideration to the responsibility.

I'd say most of the people on this forum, regardless of generation, are not the problem

Maybe there are young people out there like that, most of my friends are uni students, work at my job or are involved with dogs so maybe more 'responsible' then most, but I am not aware of that many more young people with that attitude then older people who have that attitude (i.e 30 yo's with big credit card debts, a 50 yo I know who wanted to retire and now can't afford the mortgage). Ask anyone who has advertised a litter of pups, impulse and unresearched dog enquiries come from all age ranges! (In fact my older aunties and uncles (my parents generation) have mostly pet shop dogs/impulse buys and my and my cousins generation mostly have dogs from registered breeders).

and thats a good point, that perhaps the percentage of people looking for purebred dogs has increased (minus the DD fad). What do you think needs to shift before dog owners can enjoy their friends in a more dog friendly society?