lovemesideways Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) So my dog Riddick is a 1.5 year old Labrador. His history is that he was 16 weeks old when I got him from the breeder (she had to keep them for longer due to the bitch being sick whilst pregnant), and for the first 16 weeks of his life, he was never around any people except for his breeder and I think her partner. From the day I got him, he was terrified of people, if someone so much as stepped towards him he would tuck his tail and bolt. I worked extensively with him, to get him the the point where he will run up to strangers wagging his tail. He'll lay down at my feet and if a person approaches him he'll just stay and let himself be patted. The training I did was a modification of the Click to Calm program. Starting with anytime he saw a person, he got a click and a treat, right up to whenever a person came towards him or he walked up to someone, he would get a click and a treat. Been to and completed basic obedience school, at the level to start training for trials. 95% of the time, it is a massive incredibly improvement over how he was when he was a baby. What I want to know is if I can get it further? Or if this is as good as it will get. There are times where he still freaks out, kids for example he is not great with. He looks very worried and doesn't want them to touch him. Strangers in a closed environment he is still not great. He will come to me and sit on my feet, or try and put his back to a wall and avoid them. If someone he doesn't know gets in his face he will back away and try to get away. I love him for the dog he is, but if there was more training I could do to make him happier and more relaxed in every situation I would love to hear it. Edited June 28, 2011 by lovemesideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 He may never be a social butterfly but, to me, he sounds like a lovely dog!! Sorry, I can't tell you how to increase his relaxation, but you should be very proud of him & yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemesideways Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 He may never be a social butterfly but, to me, he sounds like a lovely dog!! Sorry, I can't tell you how to increase his relaxation, but you should be very proud of him & yourself. He is a lovely dog And I am very very proud of him <3 (and myself a little bit I guess!) I just hate seeing him when he gets so anxious and afraid I would love him to feel more relaxed and comfortable, but don't know if its a dream and he'll just always be this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oskar & Zsa Zsa Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I had a cocker who had an aversion to kids. He never really got over it, just over time learned to put up with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hi lovemesideways. Dogs can and do mellow with age. My big dog is highly strung, and extremely intelligent - according to the Broken Hill Obedience Club. He was a problem as a pup and a junior in that he would react to people too, except he would complain rather than withdraw. I took him to a dog behaviouralist, obedience, shows and socialised him with other dogs as well. I think he just matured. He grew up. He in now a beautiful big bear who still complains if he has cause but that is thankfully very frequently. Now on the other side my big girl has always been very aloof. But now she is favouring much more attention. She too grew up So my dogs have changed over the years but I wouldn't want these two to be any different. Px Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Impossible to say without seeing him. But there are some dogs where you get to a point that is 'as good as it gets'- i have one here like that. Wonderful, friendly, confident dog 90% of the time. But there are some situations we just do not put her in and there are still some situations (the 10%) that we can't avoid. Today we had to leave her at the vet and she was so stressed, she has to go back tomorrow too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 So my dog Riddick is a 1.5 year old Labrador. His history is that he was 16 weeks old when I got him from the breeder (she had to keep them for longer due to the bitch being sick whilst pregnant), and for the first 16 weeks of his life, he was never around any people except for his breeder and I think her partner. This struck a chord with me. My boy was 12 weeks when I got him - similar socialisation from what we know. Then at 16 weeks he cracked his elbow and we kept him out of the world (newby owners, didn't know there were options) for another 3 months. At 18 months he would still pee when he was approached by someone that he didn't know and was quite reactive with other dogs. Now at almost 5 he is a calmer and more confident dog - totally trusted with people and quite comfortable, but still a little bit of a policeman with other dogs (although I know of other dogs from his breeder who share this trait.). This didn't happen by magic or maturity though. It has taken a LOT of work building up his confidence with several different techniques. We've done a lot of shaping which in general has improved his confidence as he learns to fail and to cope with difficult situations. We've also done considerable work on desnsitising him to all manner of situation (shopping trolleys were a particular challenge) that he was not used to. We didn't flood him with anything, rather we worked just below his threshold and gradually raised it. I'm not trying to offer advice, just support and a suggestion that with time and effort things can improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Have you tried "Look at That"? My girl was an ex-puppy farm breeding bitch and it has taken a long time for her to be comfortable around people. She still has issues but "look at that" has helped her a lot, especially on walks. Just be aware that he may be cowering now when he is scared, but one day he might try aggression - and realise that this works very well at keeping things away! This is what happened with my girl - 18 months of avoidance and then she tried to have a go at someone. She then realised that if you chase and snap the scarey thing goes away. So it is best to try address it now. He might not become a social butterfly, but using counter-conditioning might help him learn that the scarey people aren't that scarey after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkhe Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I have a very timid dog also, and it looks as though you're much further down the track than I am. I'm of no help, but am using you as inspiration, to know that it's possible to get her to come out of her shell a lot more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 The more things you expose your timid dogs to, the more experiences that become "old hat" to them, the better their ability to cope with life. Personally I found agility to be a wonderful confidence booster for my timid girl and most people who havent known her long would not know of her predisposition to timidity. But its always there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 The more things you expose your timid dogs to, the more experiences that become "old hat" to them, the better their ability to cope with life. Personally I found agility to be a wonderful confidence booster for my timid girl and most people who havent known her long would not know of her predisposition to timidity. But its always there.. yes - Lucy has grown in leaps and bounds before she did agility. At her first lesson she was too scared to even go on the pause table, never mind the tunnel. She now loves it and the tunnel has become a favourite. When she jumps on the pause table her little tail wags frantically. Just be mindful of the type of club you choose. A club with lots of different classes, off leash dogs, people running around etc might be a bit much at first. I take Lucy to a small club so it isn't too overwhelming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammieS Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 You sound like you have a lovely dog. My dog Asti (2.5 years old) seems to be on the other end of the spectrum and is reactive to new and unfamiliar environments/stimiluli. I have started the "Look at that game" and have put in alot of work and still have a long way to go before we're at the 90% mark that you've found yourself at! You should be very proud of yourself! One question that I have is - how did you find the time/scenarios to put yourself in the position to always practice the Click/Treat method, it sucks being winter so when I get home its dark and no one else is walking their dogs so weekends is about the only time we get to practice. My plan is to start putting Cesar Milan on tv with the barking/fighting dogs on tv and click and reward that "looking" without her jumping off the couch - but is that the same as being "in a real world scenario"? I don't mean to hijack the thread but if Asti can achieve half of what Riddick has, I'd be over the moon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Agree with the agility too- made a massive difference to our timid girl and when she is doing agility, things that would normally bother her do not and no one watching would know she had any issues. She actually enjoys obedience ALOT as well, though we do small bursts, lots of recalls (her favourite) and definitely no stand for exams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 You sound like you have a lovely dog. My dog Asti (2.5 years old) seems to be on the other end of the spectrum and is reactive to new and unfamiliar environments/stimiluli. I have started the "Look at that game" and have put in alot of work and still have a long way to go before we're at the 90% mark that you've found yourself at! You should be very proud of yourself! One question that I have is - how did you find the time/scenarios to put yourself in the position to always practice the Click/Treat method, it sucks being winter so when I get home its dark and no one else is walking their dogs so weekends is about the only time we get to practice. My plan is to start putting Cesar Milan on tv with the barking/fighting dogs on tv and click and reward that "looking" without her jumping off the couch - but is that the same as being "in a real world scenario"? I don't mean to hijack the thread but if Asti can achieve half of what Riddick has, I'd be over the moon! For us it was sometimes about getting out in the dark (open shopping centres, netball courts, football fields with games on etc etc, walking past cafe's with music playing). Other times we were at dog club. I know if someone took the time and effort to come to our club and ask if they could stay on the perimeter and work with their dog for the reasons you are talking about I wouldn't have a problem. (Neither would the rest of the committee.) I should also caveat this with the comment that my dogs are a massive focus in my life and I don't have a lot of things that distract me from being able to do this stuff. Winter is hard - just plain demotivating really. Unfortunately my puppies don't get quite as much work in winter as they do in summer. poor puppies. I like the CM plan - its not ideal from a real world point of view, but I know my dogs react (with interest only) to the noise of a dog barking so it might actually be a way to work at a low level for your dog. Of course like with anything it doesn't help to have a chat to someone qualified in helping what you are trying to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Agree with the agility too- made a massive difference to our timid girl and when she is doing agility, things that would normally bother her do not and no one watching would know she had any issues. She actually enjoys obedience ALOT as well, though we do small bursts, lots of recalls (her favourite) and definitely no stand for exams. Should add to this that sheep herding made a massive difference to my boy. (And has done for a friend with a Beardie lucky enough to have similar temperament.) Anything the dogs find reinforcing that is different is a great help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I definitely think he could continue to improve Just keep going - you are doing all the right things I'm am so glad you have put so much effort in and you've obviosuly done a great job already! I do have a couple of suggestions. Use Jackpots and don't forget that for dogs like this moving away from whatever it is is very rewarding. So say for example you have a child in the vicinity. Keep at the boundary where he is not frightened. When he looks at the child, click but instead of a training treat he gets a jackpot, then leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Your dog is awesome and you have done a great work with him I'm having the same problem with Em. But, she is ever so slowly getting better. This is going to be on going work for me Em and I for the rest of her life. If she was halfway as good as your dog.. I'll be totally be happy with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemesideways Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 Impossible to say without seeing him. But there are some dogs where you get to a point that is 'as good as it gets'- i have one here like that. Wonderful, friendly, confident dog 90% of the time. But there are some situations we just do not put her in and there are still some situations (the 10%) that we can't avoid. Today we had to leave her at the vet and she was so stressed, she has to go back tomorrow too. This is what I think about, is he at the point where its as good as it will get, or could I take it further. I almost forget he has any problems, then we where at the vet and he was so insanely scared I know I need to do more work with him The more things you expose your timid dogs to, the more experiences that become "old hat" to them, the better their ability to cope with life. Personally I found agility to be a wonderful confidence booster for my timid girl and most people who havent known her long would not know of her predisposition to timidity. But its always there.. Does this still apply even with a older dog? Im thinking agility might be a great idea, we've been through obedience but never tried agility. You sound like you have a lovely dog. My dog Asti (2.5 years old) seems to be on the other end of the spectrum and is reactive to new and unfamiliar environments/stimiluli. I have started the "Look at that game" and have put in alot of work and still have a long way to go before we're at the 90% mark that you've found yourself at! You should be very proud of yourself! One question that I have is - how did you find the time/scenarios to put yourself in the position to always practice the Click/Treat method, it sucks being winter so when I get home its dark and no one else is walking their dogs so weekends is about the only time we get to practice. My plan is to start putting Cesar Milan on tv with the barking/fighting dogs on tv and click and reward that "looking" without her jumping off the couch - but is that the same as being "in a real world scenario"? I don't mean to hijack the thread but if Asti can achieve half of what Riddick has, I'd be over the moon! I found the time by basically making it, every second I wasn't working I was with him. 5 minute trip to the shops? I would take him with me, walk him around the outside. Dark outside? I would go somewhere with lights, like a oval where kids where praticing sports and just walk him about. Look in your area and find places that have lights and maybe activities going on and I would take her to every place you could think of to practice training. Another idea is to book a single session with a good trainer, someone who can give you a plan to work with. Your dog is awesome and you have done a great work with him I'm having the same problem with Em. But, she is ever so slowly getting better. This is going to be on going work for me Em and I for the rest of her life. If she was halfway as good as your dog.. I'll be totally be happy with that. Thanks Vi, he loves you too ! (not as much a Rover though, Rover thinks you're speeeecial) Thanks everyone for replying! Im gonna go google for local agility clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I've met him a few times and I've always thought he was a lovely, well balanced dog. Wanna swap? [No, not for Bruno or Angel :p] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemesideways Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 I've met him a few times and I've always thought he was a lovely, well balanced dog. Wanna swap? [No, not for Bruno or Angel :p] Yeah most people do, its only in certain situations now that the scaredy cat side of him comes out. No swapping, but he is definitely due for his play date with your guys!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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