Champions

[Astese]

I have been involved with Dogs all my life and joined the Kennel Club in 1971. My husband and I bred showed and judged Bull Terriers for many years and gained BIS etc at Speciality Shows and All Breeds alike. We left the dog world for some years and became members of Dogs NSW so 8 years ago. A little bit of my history before I start this new topic.

The title Australian Champion is very easy to achieve and can be done so (especially in country areas) without ever competing against another dog/bitch of the same breed. We used to call these Champions Title petrol/ cheep champions. I have seen advertisements stating "Australian Champion" on both sides. what really does this mean

a Petrol Champion or one that has obtained their Title by competing against the best animals of that particular breed.

The governing bodies need to change the way Champion Titles are obtained as new puppy buyers are been duped into believing that because you have Champion on a piece of paper it means the animals are the best in that particular breed which is not so. One suggestion is that before a CH Title can be awarded the animal must have show that is has been placed in the top four placing in a Speciality Show (Not Baby or Puppy ) from Junior onwards not the Puppy Classes. This than would help to improve the breeding and assist new owners in buying puppies of quality. Also it would greatly reduce the small breeders from indiscriminate breeding.

If you visit any Dog Shelter you will find many pure breed dogs that have been given up and or mistreated. About 90% of these animals will be PTS. The Governing Bodies of Dogs would not approve of the above because of the financial loss but something has to be done to help the new owners and stop the breeding of unwanted dogs.

[Pointers Rule]

One suggestion is that before a CH Title can be awarded the animal must have show that is has been placed in the top four placing in a Speciality Show (Not Baby or Puppy ) from Junior onwards not the Puppy Classes. This than would help to improve the breeding and assist new owners in buying puppies of quality. Also it would greatly reduce the small breeders from indiscriminate breeding.

And how would this work for the breeds that are smaller in numbers or that do not have Breed Specialty Shows...

[Havasneeze]

Yes this topic has been touched on before. Whilst your suggestion has merit, it is important to remember that the Judge on the day signs a Certificate that states "I am clearly of the opinion that this exhibit is of such outstanding merit as to be worthy to qualify for the title of 'Champion'" and does have the right to withhold a Challenge.

Please also note that those of us with rare breeds, in my case Havanese, do NOT have a specialty show and under your rules, we would never have any dogs titled. The Havanese achieved a 25 point BOB at last years Melbourne Royal and again at this years Sydney Royal.

I believe you need to think things through more clearly before coming up with these types of suggestions....

Edited July 4, 2011 by Havasneeze

[Pointers Rule]

Yes this topic has been touched on before. Whilst your suggestion has merit, it is important to remember that the Judge on the day signs a Certificate that states "I am clearly of the opinion that this exhibit is of such outstanding merit as to be worthy to qualify for the title of 'Champion'" and does have the right to withhold a Challenge.

Please also note that those of us with rare breeds, in my case Havanese, do NOT have a specialty show and under your rules, we would never have any dogs titled. The Havanese achieved a 25 point BOB at last years Melbourne Royal and again at this years Sydney Royal.

I think you need to think things through more clearly before coming up with these types of suggestions....

A much better idea to avoid these "Petrol Champions" you speak of would be for Judges to refuse more challenges if they feel the dog isn't up to scratch.

[Jumabaar]

Yes this topic has been touched on before. Whilst your suggestion has merit, it is important to remember that the Judge on the day signs a Certificate that states "I am clearly of the opinion that this exhibit is of such outstanding merit as to be worthy to qualify for the title of 'Champion'" and does have the right to withhold a Challenge.

Please also note that those of us with rare breeds, in my case Havanese, do NOT have a specialty show and under your rules, we would never have any dogs titled. The Havanese achieved a 25 point BOB at last years Melbourne Royal and again at this years Sydney Royal.

I think you need to think things through more clearly before coming up with these types of suggestions....

A much better idea to avoid these "Petrol Champions" you speak of would be for Judges to refuse more challenges if they feel the dog isn't up to scratch.

+1

[D & D]

If you visit any Dog Shelter you will find many pure breed dogs that have been given up and or mistreated. About 90% of these animals will be PTS.

Do you have any references to back up these statements?

As others have said, what about the breeds that are small in numbers?

What about remote locations? I live in Darwin and I show Great Danes. The cost and logistics of me getting to a Specialty Show with my dogs would be huge.

There are quite a few people here (including myself)who have what you would call Petrol Champions. These Champions may not have ever been to a specialty show, but have been under enough judges who have signed their name to the statement "I am clearly of the opinion that this exhibit is of such outstanding merit as to be worthy to qualify for the title of "Australian Champion"".

[poodlefan]

One suggestion is that before a CH Title can be awarded the animal must have show that is has been placed in the top four placing in a Speciality Show (Not Baby or Puppy ) from Junior onwards not the Puppy Classes. This than would help to improve the breeding and assist new owners in buying puppies of quality. Also it would greatly reduce the small breeders from indiscriminate breeding.

Top four placing in each class or the entire show? Frankly I've seen many worthy dogs not get a place in a class at a speciality. When you have 25+ in a class, that's a given.

How would it work for rare breeds or breeds that don't have specialities?

And where's the evidence of all these ANKC registered purebreds ending up in pounds??

[liamber]

If you visit any Dog Shelter you will find many pure breed dogs that have been given up and or mistreated. About 90% of these animals will be PTS.

Do you have any references to back up these statements?

As others have said, what about the breeds that are small in numbers?

What about remote locations? I live in Darwin and I show Great Danes. The cost and logistics of me getting to a Specialty Show with my dogs would be huge.

There are quite a few people here (including myself)who have what you would call Petrol Champions. These Champions may not have ever been to a specialty show, but have been under enough judges who have signed their name to the statement "I am clearly of the opinion that this exhibit is of such outstanding merit as to be worthy to qualify for the title of "Australian Champion"".

Well said Meg!!! I also live in Darwin and show my "Petrol Champions" I find that quite insulting actually :mad Like many have said that the judge signs the challenge on the day stating that they find this dog or bitch to be eligible for a champion blah blah blah and yes there probably should be a few more challenges withheld but like Meg said we live in a remote place where we get approx. 1 show every month, we don't have the luxury of shows every weekend in different locations to be able to pick and chose judges to judge under, we get what we get. Besides which we show because we enjoy doing it and if you get a challenge than that is just a bonus :thumbsup:

[WreckitWhippet]

One suggestion is that before a CH Title can be awarded the animal must have show that is has been placed in the top four placing in a Speciality Show (Not Baby or Puppy ) from Junior onwards not the Puppy Classes. This than would help to improve the breeding and assist new owners in buying puppies of quality. Also it would greatly reduce the small breeders from indiscriminate breeding.

Top four placing in each class or the entire show? Frankly I've seen many worthy dogs not get a place in a class at a speciality. When you have 25+ in a class, that's a given.

How would it work for rare breeds or breeds that don't have specialities?

And where's the evidence of all these ANKC registered purebreds ending up in pounds??

or when the judge ranks you number 4 in that huge class and the club only place to third

yeahhhh another petrol CH thread , I just love these.

[woodbyne]

For country exhibitors to try and exhibit in Sydney its a nightmare Dogs NSW are no longer allowed to allow you to camp on the grounds only a special dates so for us to try to get to a specialty we have to try to find accommodations thats dog friendly and as i only have 2 show dogs plus 2 kids thats accommodation in a hotel for 4 of us the cost of accommodation plus petrol is a bit prohibitive to me thats making it an elitist sport.

It used to such fun camping on the grounds meeting new people at least the city folk can do that when they want to make up their petrol champions!!!

[Aziah]

Do you know how many exhibitors from Metro areas travel out to those "country shows" each week?...it's rare to not see a familiar Metro face at a country show

[TessnSean]

I have a rare breed as well. She got almost to champion status without beating another dog because there wasn't one entered! She won more than her fair share of classes in group but under your criteria she should not have champion status. In the end, we purchased another one of the same breed because they would at least compete against each other. Plenty of good judges including international judges, tell me that they are good examples of the breed so why shouldn't they earn their champions????

You have your GSD becase you like the breed. I have my rare one because I prefer them. I have been here a couple of years now and really get offended the way some of the been around for years, bred heaps of champions In a popular breed, look down on those of us who don't fit your narrow view of the dog showing world. At least we are out there, showing and trying to maintain the rare breeds we love. If my reward for keeping a rare breed In existence for a while longer with my petrol, no competition champion is a 'cheap' title then I figure I deserve it.

[Jsk]

I have a rare breed as well. She got almost to champion status without beating another dog because there wasn't one entered! She won more than her fair share of classes in group but under your criteria she should not have champion status. In the end, we purchased another one of the same breed because they would at least compete against each other. Plenty of good judges including international judges, tell me that they are good examples of the breed so why shouldn't they earn their champions????

You have your GSD becase you like the breed. I have my rare one because I prefer them. I have been here a couple of years now and really get offended the way some of the been around for years, bred heaps of champions In a popular breed, look down on those of us who don't fit your narrow view of the dog showing world. At least we are out there, showing and trying to maintain the rare breeds we love. If my reward for keeping a rare breed In existence for a while longer with my petrol, no competition champion is a 'cheap' title then I figure I deserve it.

I just want to say Bravo!!!!

[D & D]

The governing bodies need to change the way Champion Titles are obtained as new puppy buyers are been duped into believing that because you have Champion on a piece of paper it means the animals are the best in that particular breed which is not so. One suggestion is that before a CH Title can be awarded the animal must have show that is has been placed in the top four placing in a Speciality Show (Not Baby or Puppy ) from Junior onwards not the Puppy Classes. This than would help to improve the breeding and assist new owners in buying puppies of quality. Also it would greatly reduce the small breeders from indiscriminate breeding.

Er, how?

How on earth would making a title harder (or impossibel in some cases) to get reduce breeding?

Dodgy breeders aren't going to change just because their dogs aren't titled.

Maybe some more thinking this plan through is in order?

[Jumabaar]

What about breeds where they do have a specialty but it is small? So every dog can qualify anyway simply by paying their petrol money and turning up

Just get judges to refuse challenges to dogs not worthy and the problem is solved. I have seen challenges refused in the past so am not sure what the problem is.

[poodlefan]

What about breeds where they do have a specialty but it is small? So every dog can qualify anyway simply by paying their petrol money and turning up

Just get judges to refuse challenges to dogs not worthy and the problem is solved. I have seen challenges refused in the past so am not sure what the problem is.

The "problem" as I see it is that some folk think its too easy to gain a title.

And yet, you can go anywhere in this country and hit metro based folk with GR CH's.

LovemyGSD, just out of interest, are you currently exhibiting a dog?

[mirawee]

I have 2 "petrol champions" and I am proud of both of them :D Although in both cases they got all their points at Metro shows! It isn't my fault that they were the only ones of their breed competing at the time. One is now a ruBIG winner and the other is a ruBIG and BIG winner - at a show he had to beat several BIS winning dogs! But both got their titles with 6 point challenges... And the only way we can get to a specialty for either is to fly there :p

Edited July 4, 2011 by mirawee

[SkySoaringMagpie]

If you visit any Dog Shelter you will find many pure breed dogs that have been given up and or mistreated. About 90% of these animals will be PTS. The Governing Bodies of Dogs would not approve of the above because of the financial loss but something has to be done to help the new owners and stop the breeding of unwanted dogs.

This is just not true. If you visit any dog shelter you will find that most dogs on death row are mixed breeds - usually your large brown or black mixed breed. Take a look at the pound lists on the rescue forum on this site under "urgent rescues" and tell me what you find.

Yes some pedigree dogs wind up in shelters, but of these, most are picked up through breed rescue and responsibly dealt with.

I have no idea where your 90 per cent figure comes from, but in the ACT at least the PTS figure for all dogs (pure or mixed) is nothing like that. In fact, it's almost the reverse at the RSPCA (8 per cent, I just looked it up).

[klink]

Reading all the various comments re this post it is not rocket science to work out that regional people do it a lot tougher in many areas compared to the metro people , not just in dog shows.

If the judges put up less than quality dogs just to get a return invite ,shame on them. If the judge puts an exhibit up and as per the regulations sign off on the Challenge acknowledging the quality in his eyes so be it. I myself have been to shows with my breed being the only member of his/her breed in attendance, what am I supposed to do go home ?

As has been mentioned, at most country shows there are always plenty of city slickers... so what.

We arent' playing for sheep stations, just enjoy your dogs' and the day out.

A lot of judges in country shows play payback , you know it ,and I know it just peruse through the journals each month.The Canine bodies sponsor this blatant behaviour by their inaction to address it , heads in the sand stuff.

[Havasneeze]

Reading all the various comments re this post it is not rocket science to work out that regional people do it a lot tougher in many areas compared to the metro people , not just in dog shows.

If the judges put up less than quality dogs just to get a return invite ,shame on them. If the judge puts an exhibit up and as per the regulations sign off on the Challenge acknowledging the quality in his eyes so be it. I myself have been to shows with my breed being the only member of his/her breed in attendance, what am I supposed to do go home ?

As has been mentioned, at most country shows there are always plenty of city slickers... so what.

We arent' playing for sheep stations, just enjoy your dogs' and the day out.

A lot of judges in country shows play payback , you know it ,and I know it just peruse through the journals each month.The Canine bodies sponsor this blatant behaviour by their inaction to address it , heads in the sand stuff.

Same thing happens in the city and you will find that most of those that do attend country shows, do so because they believe the judging is fairer in the country, well more so than in the city...