wuffles Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Just wondering whether anyone could help me out with how you taught out of sight stays. I have never taught this before and I need a training plan I have quite a clingy Little Miss who also loves to have a sticky beak in her stays at everything happening around her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) Just wondering whether anyone could help me out with how you taught out of sight stays. I have never taught this before and I need a training plan I have quite a clingy Little Miss who also loves to have a sticky beak in her stays at everything happening around her. And after rereading your question Wuffles, Can you please tell us what Ava does in the insight stays? Have you taught her to be calm in stays? Does she paddle her feet, ect? Why do you think that she is a sticky beak and what have you done to ease her from being clingy to you? Edited July 20, 2011 by kallistar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I need to preface this by saying that we don't compete in obedience, but I do have an expectation that if I tell my dogs to do something (sit, stand, lie down) they continue to do it until they are released - regardless of whether they can see me or not. I teach oos stays as an extension of a usual stay and teach it in the same way as I build duration (ie: once I've achieved distance). So......once I can walk 10m away from my dog I'll walk 10m away and then step out of site - immediately returning to reward. Then I'll stay out of site for 5 seconds, then 10 and so on. If the dog breaks the stay they get put back on the 'stay' spot and I decrease the criteria for a couple of reps then ramp it back up again. We do this in the back yard at home and on some walking tracks that we frequently use. When I'm happy with them in either of these environments I'll use it elsewhere with more distraction. I find it really handy for when I need to get something out of the container at training and I don't want to take them back to their crate. My 5 year old girl will stay where she is put for up to 10 minutes. I put her on a stay and raced to the car at the end of a training day. I got caught up on the trip, but when I got back she was still there in her down. She then proceeded to try and get me to play - it wasn't that she was tired......... I've never pushed my boy past about 2 mins. My puppy is at the 30 second stage, but we are working at building more time. It's not really a focus though. FTR - my criteria for a stay is that feet don't move at all once they are on the stay. Any departure from this and they are replaced on their spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I am trialling on Sunday with a dog that in hindsight didn't have great novice stays which a week after getting her title I put her into open and of course the sit stays fell to bits. Its taken me a couple of months to get to where I am today and I had to rebuild from scratch, so if she passes on Sunday I will let you know what we did ;) If she doesn't pass ....I will be back here reading what everyone suggests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Just wondering whether anyone could help me out with how you taught out of sight stays. I have never taught this before and I need a training plan I have quite a clingy Little Miss who also loves to have a sticky beak in her stays at everything happening around her. And after rereading your question Wuffles, Can you please tell us what Ava does in the insight stays? Have you taught her to be calm in stays? Does she paddle her feet, ect? Why do you think that she is a sticky beak and what have you done to ease her from being clingy to you? It is only when you have a solid in sight stay that you should even try to walk around a tree or an obstacle (cars and people are good) to be out of her sight for a second. Remember to break it down into small baby steps that she can be successful every time. And when she is comfortable with a second, then progress to a longer time. Hope that this makes sense Remember the three D's (Duration, Distraction and Distance) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) That's too norty Ptolomy Ziggy has a very solid in sight stay, even with large dogs standing over him (won CCD and CD in just this situation - never mind MY nerves!!!) I think he really understands the exercise. I play lots of steady feet games in preparation too. I'm just starting to do more out of sights - varying distance and duration very carefully. When he does it with other dogs I reduce both. I have used bait plates behind him as a reward (thanks Sue H!) and also have food on me. I love it when he breaks in training - seems to be part of the learning process and I'm not happy with an exercise unless he has anticipated it or broken. When I cheerily tell him that we will try again he gets SO excited and he holds position really well. Nothing sh!ts me more than seeing dogs scruffed or dragged into a sit when they have laid down. Edited July 20, 2011 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Just wondering whether anyone could help me out with how you taught out of sight stays. I have never taught this before and I need a training plan I have quite a clingy Little Miss who also loves to have a sticky beak in her stays at everything happening around her. And after rereading your question Wuffles, Can you please tell us what Ava does in the insight stays? Have you taught her to be calm in stays? Does she paddle her feet, ect? Why do you think that she is a sticky beak and what have you done to ease her from being clingy to you? It is only when you have a solid in sight stay that you should even try to walk around a tree or an obstacle (cars and people are good) to be out of her sight for a second. Remember to break it down into small baby steps that she can be successful every time. And when she is comfortable with a second, then progress to a longer time. Hope that this makes sense Remember the three D's (Duration, Distraction and Distance) She has a very solid in sight stay but she watches EVERYTHING and seems slightly on edge. She keeps her feet still in the sit stay but will crane her neck. In the down stay she tends to switch from one hip to the other at least once. She hasn't lost any points over it in trials (yet). If there is a dog doing retrieves in the next ring, she will watch it (even if it is behind her). If there is a bird walking along the ground, she will watch it. If one of the other dogs breaks its stay, she will watch it (but keep her own position). If I make eye contact with her she stares at me as though I am going to ask her to do something - yes I do have consistent body language for stays - I try to look just over her head I try to only go back and reward her when she is calm but I don't think she understands that yet! I have started going behind trees for a few seconds and she has no problems with that. It's possible that it's me with more clingyness issues than her Thanks for the advice everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I don't want my kids being sticky beaks in stays .....I train them from a very early age to watch me and disregard what else is going on. Its all part of the distraction training we do. As for the moving from hip to hip......er - nope I would be going back to square one. OUr judges over here - once they know a dog is a fidgitter they will start watching and taking points off. Its much easier to fix this at the CCD - novice stage than later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 As for the moving from hip to hip......er - nope I would be going back to square one. How do your guys do their drops? Do they do the sphinx drops or roll onto one hip (either eventually or from the start) and then stay there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 As for the moving from hip to hip......er - nope I would be going back to square one. How do your guys do their drops? Do they do the sphinx drops or roll onto one hip (either eventually or from the start) and then stay there? Lara, Beans, Lexi and Cider all do sphinx. Scoota and Strauss lay on a hip and they all stay how I left them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 I started a thread a while back about her fidgeting but most people seemed to tell me not to worry! I'll have a think about what I should do. Does training them to watch you affect out of sight stays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) I started a thread a while back about her fidgeting but most people seemed to tell me not to worry! I'll have a think about what I should do. Does training them to watch you affect out of sight stays? OOps I didn't see the previous thread. I guess it all comes down to how seriously you are with regard to competing. If you want to go out there, have fun and you are happy with anything over 170 - then yes I agree - don't worry about the fidgeting, the squiffy presents, the wide or lagging heeling....the list goes on. If you want the best you and your dog can be then why throw away possibly 2,3,4 points because the dog figited, when its not that hard to train it. I find the kids usually watch the direction I disappeared, and wait for me to come back For a short time I did have a problem with one of my boys (who shall remain nameless - Scoota) licking his willy and losing marks in a down stay. I told him I would cut it off and thankfully it stopped Edited July 21, 2011 by Ptolomy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) I had a very intermittant stay until I started making dog do varying length stays in front of her dinner. And then I got a rock solid stay with tail wag - cos the reward is dinner - very powerful for my dog. So the dinner stay mat is near the back door and the door to the lounge, so to get out of sight stays, I'd do what Agility dogs said, except I'd nick out through one of the doors for a second and come straight back. Sometimes she's a bit too rock solid on the stays and won't come when I ask. She cracks up the dog club class cos she sits there with her tail wagging the whole time checking out the view but not moving. In the early (hot) days - we had a few upside down stays. Ie all four paws in the air. Edited July 21, 2011 by Mrs Rusty Bucket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I started a thread a while back about her fidgeting but most people seemed to tell me not to worry! I'll have a think about what I should do. Does training them to watch you affect out of sight stays? OOps I didn't see the previous thread. I guess it all comes down to how seriously you are with regard to competing. If you want to go out there, have fun and you are happy with anything over 170 - then yes I agree - don't worry about the fidgeting, the squiffy presents, the wide or lagging heeling....the list goes on. If you want the best you and your dog can be then why throw away possibly 2,3,4 points because the dog figited, when its not that hard to train it. I find the kids usually watch the direction I disappeared, and wait for me to come back For a short time I did have a problem with one of my boys (who shall remain nameless - Scoota) licking his willy and losing marks in a down stay. I told him I would cut it off and thankfully it stopped I have trained Zig to look me right in the eye on stays (because he stirs up other dogs by sticky beaking and making eye contact) - in the limited out of sight training I've done he has not taken his eyes from where I've disappeared so hopefully that works! Poor Scoota - if you can, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Thanks Ptolomy, I am sitting somewhere between the 'doing it for fun' and 'doing it to compete' mentality. I think I would like to be competitive (and we currently are) but am finding it hard enough to squeeze in 5 minutes of training a day at the moment so not feeling terribly motivated. Thankfully she doesn't break her stays (touch wood) so I guess I am starting out a bit ahead there if I try fix the fidgeting @ willy licking. My other dog seems to get a case of the itchy doodle every time we have guests over. Bonus points if the visitors are a bit thingy about having the dogs inside the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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